[QUOTE=da space core;51929578]Look, I too would love if i can fix all the middle eastern governments with a single press of a button. Unfortunately its not that easy.
The best we can do is to make sure they take steps fowards, not back[/QUOTE]
Hopefully the sales for the Nike Hijab decline given progression socially with new generations.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51929587]Hopefully the sales for the Nike Hijab decline given progression socially with new generations.[/QUOTE]
This depends - the more persecuted they feel, the more we'll make them cling to their faith and the stronger case they have for being radicalized.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51929587]Hopefully the sales for the Nike Hijab decline given progression socially with new generations.[/QUOTE]
I don't think the hijab will ever go away, its a part of culture.
I just believe (and hope) that countries will one day no longer have it mandatory
[QUOTE=da space core;51929603]I don't think the hijab will ever go away, its a part of culture.
I just believe (and hope) that countries will one day no longer have it mandatory[/QUOTE]
The day women can choose to wear it and not be bullied, have their faith questioned, shamed or co-erced by the societies they live in (not just governments) is when things will change for the better. Women's rights in general in such societies have a long way to go too, this is just one of the aspects of it.
[QUOTE=snookypookums;51929609]The day women can choose to wear it and not be bullied, have their faith questioned, shamed or co-erced by the societies they live in (not just governments) is when things will change for the better. Women's rights in general in such societies have a long way to go too, this is just one of the aspects of it.[/QUOTE]
This isn't really an issue among Western Muslims -- or at least not nearly to the same extent. The countries where such abuse is a very real threat tend to be those under theocratic law, in which case some regressive patriarchal traditions are the least of the social woes.
The majority Western Muslims aren't those forced into wearing headcoverings, but those who willingly choose to wear them simply to honor their cultural and religious heritage. So, we techically already live in the day where "women can choose to wear it and not be bullied," at least outside of those nations ruled by theocratic despots.
On the business, money making side - Good going, Nike. Especially that logo placement - the main issue with branding is usually that the logo gets easily cut off, but now, well, lets just say that placing a giant logo on the side of somebody's head is a bold move.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51929739]This isn't really an issue among Western Muslims -- or at least not nearly to the same extent. The countries where such abuse is a very real threat tend to be those under theocratic law, in which case some regressive patriarchal traditions are the least of the social woes.
The majority Western Muslims aren't those forced into wearing headcoverings, but those who willingly choose to wear them simply to honor their cultural and religious heritage. So, we techically already live in the day where "women can choose to wear it and not be bullied," at least outside of those nations ruled by theocratic despots.[/QUOTE]
Not strictly speaking, BDA. While in the theocratic Muslim countries women are often punished for *not* wearing the Hijab, in some parts of some Western countries they are increasingly ridiculed and become the target of harassment for choosing to wear it, by both the regressive left and the far right, as Islamophobic sentiment grows.
[QUOTE=archangel125;51930081]Not strictly speaking, BDA. While in the theocratic Muslim countries women are often punished for *not* wearing the Hijab, in some parts of some Western countries they are increasingly ridiculed and become the target of harassment for choosing to wear it, by both the regressive left and the far right, as Islamophobic sentiment grows.[/QUOTE]
I think it's a bit disingenuous to mention this, and not acknowledge that there is still pressure for women to wear a veil. Sure, I don't doubt that the people I know who wear a hijab wear them completely out of their own volition, but there are definitely segments where women are pressured to.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51929739]This isn't really an issue among Western Muslims -- or at least not nearly to the same extent. The countries where such abuse is a very real threat tend to be those under theocratic law, in which case some regressive patriarchal traditions are the least of the social woes.
The majority Western Muslims aren't those forced into wearing headcoverings, but those who willingly choose to wear them simply to honor their cultural and religious heritage. So, we techically already live in the day where "women can choose to wear it and not be bullied," at least outside of those nations ruled by theocratic despots.[/QUOTE]
Well, it's also not a choice in the west to some extent. While there are no laws to force people into wearing them, there's much familial pressure and expectation for their family to be "good muslims" and therfore they give in and wear it. Obviously this is not to say that all families are like this. It is an issue though.
Also having watched the video, I find it ironic that the ad for Nike Hijab consists mostly of a female athlete not wearing it and doing her thing perfectly fine.
Clever way to reach a new buyer group.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51930253]Also having watched the video, I find it ironic that the ad for Nike Hijab consists mostly of a female athlete not wearing it and doing her thing perfectly fine.[/QUOTE]
Hahaha YES! Tudd 1 - 0 Regressive violent evil leftists
[highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Ban evasion alt" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]
I want the air max version
With a bubble window
[QUOTE=da space core;51929578]Look, I too would love if i can fix all the middle eastern governments with a single press of a button. Unfortunately its not that easy.
The best we can do is to make sure they take steps fowards, not back[/QUOTE]
By throwing capitalism into the mix.
[QUOTE=Sanxy;51930272]Hahaha YES! Tudd 1 - 0 Regressive violent evil leftists[/QUOTE]
Are you just attacking Tudd for the sake of it here? His point is fairly valid.
[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;51930575]Are you just attacking Tudd for the sake of it here? His point is fairly valid.[/QUOTE]
Well, it's not really. They never claimed it would or wouldn't be worse than [I]not[/I] using a hijab. They imply it's better than using [I]another type[/I] of hijab, so the fact that other people are doing just as well without it is besides the point of the product.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51930253]Also having watched the video, I find it ironic that the ad for Nike Hijab consists mostly of a female athlete not wearing it and doing her thing perfectly fine.[/QUOTE]
That's not ironic at all. It was calculated. The entire advertisement was about empowering Muslim female athletes -- telling them that they can accomplish anything, even if society doesn't recognize their strength and value. They showed the athlete who wasn't wearing the headcovering, alongside the other athletes participating in classic cultural sports (horse racing), as a bullet point to that message.
The message is, "this product is not an extension of the zealotry and misogyny that is so sadly prevalent in many Muslim nations. You are strong and free. This product is simply a respectful olive branch to your cultural and religious tradition."
This is something you should be praising, not ridiculing.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51930856]That's not ironic at all. It was calculated. The entire advertisement was about empowering Muslim female athletes -- telling them that they can accomplish anything, even if society doesn't recognize their strength and value. They showed the athlete who wasn't wearing the headcovering, alongside the other athletes participating in classic cultural sports (horse racing), as a bullet point to that message.
The message is, "this product is not an extension of the zealotry and misogyny that is so sadly prevalent in many Muslim nations. You are strong and free. This product is simply a respectful olive branch to your cultural and religious tradition."
This is something you should be praising, not ridiculing.[/QUOTE]
Lol, praising.
I can understand would be a better term to use here, but I can also understand when the ad directly shows that one side is even more empowered than the other and shows the ridiculousness of modesty culture. Not to mention the Ad gives more time to the person not wearing the actual product while doing sports, which is just hilariously ironic from an advertising standpoint.
Quite simply, unless the person is personally choosing to wear the hijab, and there isn't societal/religious pressure, then I feel that this is something I don't have to praise it at all.
On the flip side I am not going to ever support a mandate for people to be forced to wear/not wear something, but societies like Afghanistan and Iran clearly show this article of clothing can be pressured to be worn on or off depending on the political/societal conditions at the times, and thus the cultural heritage aspect is simply window dressing the obvious forced modesty that can and does take place for others.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51930916]Lol, praising.
I can understand would be a better term to use here, but I can also understand when the ad directly shows that one side is even more empowered than the other and shows the ridiculousness of modesty culture. Not to mention the Ad gives more time to the person not wearing the actual product while doing sports, which is just hilariously ironic from an advertising standpoint.
[B]Quite simply, unless the person is personally choosing to wear the hijab, and there isn't societal/religious pressure, then I feel that this is something I don't have to praise it at all. [/B]
On the flip side I am not going to ever support a mandate for people to be forced to wear/not wear something, but societies like Afghanistan and Iran clearly show this article of clothing can be pressured to be worn on or off depending on the political/societal conditions at the times, and thus the cultural heritage aspect is simply window dressing the obvious forced modesty that can and does take place for others.[/QUOTE]
Again: that was the entire point of the advertisement. It was telling female Muslim athletes to rise above the pressure and expectations of their society and embrace their own value. That's why they said the words that they said, and that's why the gave a woman not wearing a headcovering such a prominent spot in the advertisement.
They are marketing their product not as an extension of patriarchal subjugation of women in Muslim countries, but as a tool for those female athletes who still love their culture and traditions. That's why they spotlighted empowered female athletes who had broken the mold, and so specifically praised women who defied expectations and conventions to choose their own path in life.
This ad didn't show "one side as being better than the other," nor did it "show the ridiculousness of modesty culture." Try to see past your reflexive hatred for foreigners for a second, Tudd.
This advert is sending a great message. It is respecting the cultural appreciation of the headcovering, while simultaneously sending a message of empowerment and choice. It is exactly the kind of message we [I]should[/I] be sending, and it is directly in line with the view you just stated. You [I]should[/I] be praising the way that they handled this.
Clever advertising, very emotion filled and controversial. Just business at work here.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51931002]Again: that was the entire point of the advertisement. It was telling female Muslim athletes to rise above the pressure and expectations of their society and embrace their own value. That's why they said the words that they said, and that's why the gave a woman not wearing a headcovering such a prominent spot in the advertisement.
They are marketing their product not as an extension of patriarchal subjugation of women in Muslim countries, but as a tool for those female athletes who still love their culture and traditions. That's why they spotlighted empowered female athletes who had broken the mold, and so specifically praised women who defied expectations and conventions to choose their own path in life.
This ad didn't show "one side as being better than the other," nor did it "show the ridiculousness of modesty culture." Try to see past your reflexive hatred for foreigners for a second, Tudd.
This advert is sending a great message. It is respecting the cultural appreciation of the headcovering, while simultaneously sending a message of empowerment and choice. It is exactly the kind of message we [I]should[/I] be sending, and it is directly in line with the view you just stated. You [I]should[/I] be praising the way that they handled this.[/QUOTE]
I just don't see it that way and even though I know it is the intended message, because it is an short advertisement that is obviously not going to touch upon the other side of this. So taking that into account, I am fairly unconvinced about this ad unlike you.
I don't have to praise it at all, but at the same time "reflexive hatred for foreigners" is being quite loaded with my actual stance on the matter. I am not for banning the hijab or something like that. I just think that less prominence and societal pressure to force someone to wear it is something to hope for. If people have the agency to choose to wear it, awesome.
People don't have to be overtly enthusiastic on this issue to have an acceptable opinion by the way.
That you "remain unconvinced" on anything that doesn't explicitly cast Muslims in a negative light really shouldn't be a surprise to me.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51931065]That you "remain unconvinced" on anything that doesn't explicitly cast Muslims in a negative light really shouldn't be a surprise to me.[/QUOTE]
Actually I posted this thread that showed a pretty positive outlook for the Islamic community in Sweden [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1555775]here[/url] if more people like this are guiding the way for integration.
Not like I hate every muslim I meet or have even condemn wide swaths of them. For example, when I was staying in Germany, I probably hanged out as much as I could at Kurdish bars and even had some awesome chats/relations with Turkish-descended locals and professor, but at the same time to say Germany didn't/doesn't have an integration problem is disingenuous. Even my professor recognized that.
That and I recognize that the islamic population in America integrates overall pretty well over here for another example, but that also has to do with the fact that people who immigrant here tend to be more secular and might even be leaving to get away from their more fundamentalist counterparts.
Call me a racist/xenophobe all you want, but I personally know myself well enough to whole-heartedly say I critique Islam as a whole, but I don't condemn followers outright.
This makes perfect sense to me. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar releases for other faiths, like dri-fit patka (which already exist I think) and other performance dastaar for Sikhs. It'd be a huge market in Canada.
a designer hjiab kind of defeats the purpose of being modest...
[QUOTE=Sableye;51931363]a designer hjiab kind of defeats the purpose of being modest...[/QUOTE]
first of all no
and secondly this isn't "designer", it's sportswear. it's made to be lightweight and breathable
[QUOTE=Tudd;51931117]Actually I posted this thread that showed a pretty positive outlook for the Islamic community in Sweden [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1555775]here[/url] if more people like this are guiding the way for integration.
Not like I hate every muslim I meet or have even condemn wide swaths of them. For example, when I was staying in Germany, I probably hanged out as much as I could at Kurdish bars and even had some awesome chats/relations with Turkish-descended locals and professor, but at the same time to say Germany didn't/doesn't have an integration problem is disingenuous. Even my professor recognized that.
That and I recognize that the islamic population in America integrates overall pretty well over here for another example, but that also has to do with the fact that people who immigrant here tend to be more secular and might even be leaving to get away from their more fundamentalist counterparts.
Call me a racist/xenophobe all you want, but I personally know myself well enough to whole-heartedly say I critique Islam as a whole, but I don't condemn followers outright.[/QUOTE]
I think part of the problem in Germany was taking in too many refugees, more than their social services infrastructure could handle. Good intentions, but poor execution.
Other European countries that could easily have managed to take in more refugees than they did refused to pull their weight, so I can't really blame Germany.
I can't say I see Islam itself as more of a problem than other faiths, given the history of, say, Christianity. I'm not a fan of religion in general, but we must remember that once, for centuries, the Islamic world was the world's centre of Science, culture, and commerce. It's going through a dark age right now, but one day I have no doubt they'll shake it off and regain their former glory.
I'd much rather everyone in the world be secular, frankly, but we know that won't happen.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51930195]I think it's a bit disingenuous to mention this, and not acknowledge that there is still pressure for women to wear a veil. Sure, I don't doubt that the people I know who wear a hijab wear them completely out of their own volition, but there are definitely segments where women are pressured to.[/QUOTE]
You're pretending that this is something unique to Islam and not all religious folk, though. My folks used to chide me for not going to church on Sunday, and insist I go with them even after I told them I'd decided I was no longer Catholic or Christian. In the years since they've come to respect my choice, even if they aren't exactly pleased with it. I live in a neighborhood that's 42% Muslim, and I never hear about people being more pressured than that. In fact most of the young Muslim women around here, particularly the ones who grew up in Canada, prefer not to wear the Hijab. Are there edge cases, especially among recently landed immigrants from the stricter theocratic countries? Absolutely. But integration takes time, and most people come to Canada because they want to integrate, not because they want to change the rules here.
The fraction of a fraction who do want to change the laws in favour of Sharia are ridiculed and ignored by everyone else here, Muslim and non-Muslim alike. Oddly enough, though, the far right is so terrified of that tiny group that they claim Sharia law in Canada is inevitable if we don't stop allowing Muslims in. Goes to show you that some people are too far gone to be sensible.
I wonder if they will extend their brand to Burkini's. Would look great in the next Olympics.
addidas proudly presents: the "German Hijab"
[IMG]http://radamanthys.de/public/german-hijab.png[/IMG]
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