• Blizzard Axes Diablo III’s ‘Team Deathmatch’ PVP Mode
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[QUOTE=Mingebox;38999105]The talk of "Social networking" and "emphasis on people you know in real life" sounds like they're going for the Facebook demographic to me, and that means something to play with your grandma.[/QUOTE] I don't understand what the "Facebook demographic" is. I'd say they are going for the WoW demographic since they hit major paydirt with that game already.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;38998085]Not really. Cant think of a better MMO than WoW honestly, or a better RTS than starcraft. Its just Diablo.[/QUOTE] Thats kinda why Starcraft and WoW are so mediocre. There is no competition, there is no incentive to do better.
[QUOTE=Ereunity;38995622]Never played Diablo, Played Diablo 2 up until the butcher, ran out of the room screaming and never touched it since. Got Diablo 3, enjoyed it.[/QUOTE] Too bad diablo 2 didn't have butcher :downs:
[QUOTE=Raidyr;38999153]I don't understand what the "Facebook demographic" is. I'd say they are going for the WoW demographic since they hit major paydirt with that game already.[/QUOTE] i.e., people who mostly just play games like Farmville. If you want to make money off mass appeal, you can't do any better than that. WoW started out as pretty accessible game for non-gamers, as gotten increasingly more so ever since. But I get the feeling Blizzard is going to take it far as possible this time around.
[QUOTE=Axelius;38999211]Too bad diablo 2 didn't have butcher :downs:[/QUOTE] Maybe he did play Diablo 1 because I remember my first ragequit being dying to the butcher in that game.
[QUOTE=zombojoe;38999155]Thats kinda why Starcraft and WoW are so mediocre. There is no competition, there is no incentive to do better.[/QUOTE] What? no competition in starcraft? Try out multilayer and get into one of the higher leagues..
[QUOTE=O'Neil;38999417]What? no competition in starcraft? Try out multilayer and get into one of the higher leagues..[/QUOTE] I am masters league by the way but thats not what I meant. :v: I meant competition in the sense that there is a competitor to starcraft/WoW. WoW had Guild Wars 2 but it doesn't look like it was the WoW-killer it was hyped to be. Starcraft 2 has nothing, EA's F2P RTS that they are making already seems like it ran itself into the ground before it even got up. Perhaps CoH2 but somehow I doubt it, its on a completely different end of the RTS spectrum. Basically they have a monopoly on the respective genres and everyone knows what happens when there is a monopoly in any market. The customers suffer.
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;38993281]Man it's been 7 months and I'm still pissed at myself for not waiting to see how the game turned out before running to the store and buying it,[/QUOTE] Ha-ha! It was definitely worth the wait... to not buy it at all. Feels good man. I was even looking forward to it like.. 3 years ago, but nope, the smaller (U.S. only?) closed-beta gave me a bad feeling about it.
Diablo 3 was my first ARPG. I got it because two of my friends got me to play the open beta they did to test server loads (many of you will recall how little that did on release day when it took them several hours/almost an entire day to get the servers up and stable). Initially, the game was really fun, especially with friends once we were all caught up to each other, then we got to inferno. Nothing about the initial inferno difficulty was fun. Everything became a straight DPS check and a lot of design flaws became apparent. Since then, even more design flaws have become apparent. One of the initial pitches of the game was viability of hundreds of builds, and this just simply isn't the case. Barbarians are going to use the whirlwind build to farm the fastest they possibly can, Witch Doctors are going to use spirit walk because it makes them move faster and gives invulnerability along with Zombie Bears due to their ludicrous damage output, Monks almost have to use Fist of Thunder with Thunderclap and Sweeping Wind. There are far too many things that are clearly the best without any question, especially if you want to effectively farm to find better gear or experience to gain more paragon levels. The 1.0.5 patch was an obvious step in the right direction, but it was baffling that they released the game in the state that it was, let alone it's taken them over 7 months to tell us they still aren't ready to ship a feature for the game that was promised long before release. Some say, "yay, it's free!" It was promised, it was demoed, and they still don't know when they're going to actually make it live. :\
I think my favorite, though not necessarily what I could consider to be the "best" ARPG was Darkspore. It had more than it's fair share of flaws, but some thing of things it did well, it did brilliantly. Especially enemy design.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;38999234]i.e., people who mostly just play games like Farmville. If you want to make money off mass appeal, you can't do any better than that. WoW started out as pretty accessible game for non-gamers, as gotten increasingly more so ever since. But I get the feeling Blizzard is going to take it far as possible this time around.[/QUOTE] Yeah no I don't think Blizzard has invested millions into a project just to turn it into the next Farmville.
[QUOTE=acds;38994922]Both D3 and TLII lasted jack shit (TLII being 20€ made it a bit better though). Diablo 3 was plain, shallow and uninteresting. TLII was a bit better, but did nothing new and got boring quickly. That's the problem with the genre, they aren't doing anything new, at all. It's the same damn clicking with prettier graphics. No actually cancel that, I wish it was the fucking same with prettier graphics, we've gone fucking backwards from D2 it seems. We gain prettier effects and lost depth which makes the tediousness of the clicking increase by the power of 2. Diablo 3 fucking touted the removal of downtimes to get you back to fighting, completely ignoring the fact that the combat is based on the downfall of the genre (yeah, the fucking clicking) so in the end we got [B]even more[/B] of what made the genre grow old. You know it's not even the genre that is boring, because I'll gladly go back and play D2 and Titan's Quest (only modern game in the genre that did it really well). I can't put my finger on it but I' quite sure the dumbing down to appeal to larger audiences hit the Diablo-likes the hardest. Not that they got dumbed down more, but that the dumbing down affected them a lot more. The clicking is the weak pillar, when they removed all the other pillars to streamline it, it won't hold. Path of Exile is trying some new mechanics, but they got a long long way to go (mostly with the feel of combat and environments).[/QUOTE] I guess this really isn't an issue for me because I'm kind of a light fan of the genre. I.E. I really enjoyed my time with D2, albiet it wasn't anything hardcore (thanks mom, for discovering it had an M rating halfway through playing it). I mostly just loved the style of it and the dark demonic fantasy lore. But I never played anything else in the genre since, mostly because of other interests, lack of a solid computer/budget/parents willing to buy things for a good 6-8 years after I played D2 for the first time, etc. Of course now that isn't the case but there hasn't been a real solid aRPG release that I've known about in a long time until D3 came around (not counting TL1 since it was more or less just a budget experiment). So in that sense path of exile is extremely interesting to me because the genre doesn't feel tired or old, as its something I've never personally played to death. I can imagine PoE won't really tickle your fancy at all though if you've played just about all the best and not-so-best games in said genre that D2 popularized. just like how an avid RTS fan is likely sick to death of games like C&C/Star Craft since they all tend to follow the same gameplay formula and flow.
And you expect me to drop $30 for this? Ha-ha. Ha.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;38993336]Except Kotick has no hand in running Blizzard, they're separate companies and are managed by their respective heads. It's only a publishing partnership.[/QUOTE] Nobody knows the exact details of the relationship. And considering Blizzard has drastically changed since the merge, and tried grabbing money a lot more, I doubt "Activision Blizzard" is just a publishing partnership.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;38996684]People always say Torchlight 2 is the true successor to Diablo 2, and it makes me wonder if Diablo 2 was a lot more boring than I remember.[/QUOTE] TL2 would have been much more interesting of a game if the style and lore behind it was nearly as interesting as D2's was. That's what I really enjoyed about D2 more than anything, the sense of unmatched atmosphere (at the time it released) on top of these engaging, but simple gameplay mechanics. I think TL2 is one of those games that is technically a "perfection" of the gameplay in that genre, but it only cares about said gameplay. Kind of like how the fighting game genre is, with how theres a lot of games out there that don't really do much for the player beyond just have pure, well-done fighting mechanics. It's a type of game design I'm not fond of because it doesn't engage me - the type of game design where the biggest fans of such games only care about pure gameplay mechanics, number crunching, stats, etc versus the overall game. In this sense, TL2 is good. It's a better game by far if you look at the numbers. But yet it's boring, simply because it doesn't have that aspect about it that really draws you in beyond just the raw gameplay. And lets be honest- the style of game that aRPG's are basically require you to have more than just the pure gameplay to be entertained for more than a lunch break session. And you need more than just "carrot on a stick loot/stat fest" to be entertained for more than a few days before you just get bored or burnt out. D2 got around this by being groundbreaking for its time while also being a "complete package". It has a really great style to it that accented the visceral gameplay. The world/lore was interesting and gritty. There was a loose story to it, that encouraged you to push on beyond just getting better shit (though that was certainly a huge factor). It also reeked with atmosphere (for the time) and there was a lot of mystery to why things were the way they are in the game that was up to the player's imagination to really work out. That on top of the excellent core gameplay (randomized everything, addicting combat and loot fest, etc) is what really made D2 shine. Its why in this sense, Dark Souls almost feels like a real spiritual successor to D2 to me. It achieves everything that D2 did so well for the most part, albiet within a completely different (but related) genre. Sure theres no randomized everything but they both hold a similar feel, sense of atmosphere, and sense of discovery when you play. The combat is very visceral, and theres a lot of figuring things out/discovery. Gritty demonic fantasy. Intriguing online component that elevates the game beyond just a simple brutally hard "die a lot" dungeon crawler. It feels very much in the spirit of Diablo despite being a third person action game, despite not having the whole randomized loot and dungeon aspect, and despite not being exactly the best looking game in this generation (but it still looks pretty good, especially animation wise and the environment designs). I dunno, that's just my thoughts on it, and why Diablo worked for me personally (and why the most recent addition to the series didn't really).
Diablo II is my all time favorite game. I played it when I was younger, but I really got into Diabo II in my junior year of highschool. I managed to get me and seven friends together and tower through all of it. It took us three weekends where we all hopped on at around 6pm and pretty much played for 8 or 9 hours straight. We all set up Skype and would just yell at each other for hours. The best part of the diversity of our group as well as the diversity of our play styles. I was the only one with diablo experience, so I was the loot monger. I always had ten times as much gold as anyone else in the group, and all my gear was good and loot buffs. You can't even begin to imagine the amount of hate I got for constantly stealing all the good loot. Then we had the quiet introspective kid playing shaman. He'd only ever say anything whenever something went terribly wrong. We also had the crazy rambunctious kid playing barbarian. His only real purpose was comedy relief. I'll never forget the moment where our entire group got slaughtered by pit lords. Our bodies were just out of view but there was nothing we could do. That's when our barbarian comes to the rescue. He just walks past us without ever taking a pause and says, "guys I got this." Then we hear the barbarian grunt and vault over around 10 pit lords. He jumped clean over them which opened a quick window where we all went and collected our fallen loot. Shit like that happened for hours upon hours. I've never had as much fun in a game as I've had playing Diablo with my best friends.
[QUOTE=KorJax;39001184]TL2 would have been much more interesting of a game if the style and lore behind it was nearly as interesting as D2's was. That's what I really enjoyed about D2 more than anything, the sense of unmatched atmosphere (at the time it released) on top of these engaging, but simple gameplay mechanics. I think TL2 is one of those games that is technically a "perfection" of the gameplay in that genre, but it only cares about said gameplay. Kind of like how the fighting game genre is, with how theres a lot of games out there that don't really do much for the player beyond just have pure, well-done fighting mechanics. It's a type of game design I'm not fond of because it doesn't engage me - the type of game design where the biggest fans of such games only care about pure gameplay mechanics, number crunching, stats, etc versus the overall game. In this sense, TL2 is good. It's a better game by far if you look at the numbers. But yet it's boring, simply because it doesn't have that aspect about it that really draws you in beyond just the raw gameplay. And lets be honest- the style of game that aRPG's are basically require you to have more than just the pure gameplay to be entertained for more than a lunch break session. And you need more than just "carrot on a stick loot/stat fest" to be entertained for more than a few days before you just get bored or burnt out. [/QUOTE] T2's style was a big part of why it wasn't doing much for be. In fact, I'd go was far as to say it had a very poor artsyle. I'm pretty open-minded when it comes to cartoony artstyles, but not only did I find TL2's to be completely uninspired, but I found all the bright colors makes everything sort of blend together in combat, and my mind goes hazy and I start zoning out, which I've rarely every done in any other game in the genre.
I regret wasting $60 on that piece of shit. The game was clearly not done and the game was made to evolve around the RMAH to milk the customers of money.
[QUOTE=MILKE;39006162]I regret wasting $60 on that piece of shit. The game was clearly not done and the game was made to evolve around the RMAH to milk the customers of money.[/QUOTE] That would be a terrible business strategy though.
[QUOTE=KorJax;39001066]I guess this really isn't an issue for me because I'm kind of a light fan of the genre. I.E. I really enjoyed my time with D2, albiet it wasn't anything hardcore (thanks mom, for discovering it had an M rating halfway through playing it). I mostly just loved the style of it and the dark demonic fantasy lore. But I never played anything else in the genre since, mostly because of other interests, lack of a solid computer/budget/parents willing to buy things for a good 6-8 years after I played D2 for the first time, etc. Of course now that isn't the case but there hasn't been a real solid aRPG release that I've known about in a long time until D3 came around (not counting TL1 since it was more or less just a budget experiment). So in that sense path of exile is extremely interesting to me because the genre doesn't feel tired or old, as its something I've never personally played to death. I can imagine PoE won't really tickle your fancy at all though if you've played just about all the best and not-so-best games in said genre that D2 popularized. just like how an avid RTS fan is likely sick to death of games like C&C/Star Craft since they all tend to follow the same gameplay formula and flow.[/QUOTE] PoE actually does interest me a lot, the mechanics are interesting and I like the style they are going for (though I'm still more a fan of skilltrees than skillgems), only thing holding it back is the low budget really (the artstyle they are going for isn't easy to do well, and the flow of the combat needs some, well, flow). PoE is probably the more interesting Diablolike in development, it's just very rough around the edges at the moment (understandable being a beta). Then there's Grim Dawn, haven't followed in a while now but last I saw a year or so ago it was looking good. So far though, nothing beats Titan's Quest (well other than Diablo of course). They actual hit a good spot with feel and setting too, while being original (well obviously Greek mythology wasn't invented by them, but they managed to make a setting that was not imitating Diablo and still keep it great). I swear I saw a Asian (can't remember if it was Korean or Japanese) Diablolike with some amazing looking combat (looked more like DmC than Diablo, but still), but haven't been able to find it again (also just saw like, 10 seconds so can't really judge).
[QUOTE=Raidyr;39006305]That would be a terrible business strategy though.[/QUOTE] They get a cut from all sales and purchases. Basically after selling the over-priced game, they get all this extra income from the game's virtual economy.
[QUOTE=acds;39006851]I swear I saw a Asian (can't remember if it was Korean or Japanese) Diablolike with some amazing looking combat (looked more like DmC than Diablo, but still), but haven't been able to find it again (also just saw like, 10 seconds so can't really judge).[/QUOTE] This one? [video=youtube;sCdbdsFgNGI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCdbdsFgNGI[/video] Skip to 4:20
[QUOTE=acds;39006851]PoE actually does interest me a lot, the mechanics are interesting and I like the style they are going for (though I'm still more a fan of skilltrees than skillgems), only thing holding it back is the low budget really (the artstyle they are going for isn't easy to do well, and the flow of the combat needs some, well, flow). PoE is probably the more interesting Diablolike in development, it's just very rough around the edges at the moment (understandable being a beta). Then there's Grim Dawn, haven't followed in a while now but last I saw a year or so ago it was looking good. So far though, nothing beats Titan's Quest (well other than Diablo of course). They actual hit a good spot with feel and setting too, while being original (well obviously Greek mythology wasn't invented by them, but they managed to make a setting that was not imitating Diablo and still keep it great). I swear I saw a Asian (can't remember if it was Korean or Japanese) Diablolike with some amazing looking combat (looked more like DmC than Diablo, but still), but haven't been able to find it again (also just saw like, 10 seconds so can't really judge).[/QUOTE] My biggest problem with PoE when I last played was that killing stuff just didn't feel good, and that's a very difficult and subtle thing to get right. That, and I found the atmosphere rather static and sterile.
Fuck diablo 3 just stick with the originals.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;39012715]My biggest problem with PoE when I last played was that killing stuff just didn't feel good, and that's a very difficult and subtle thing to get right. That, and I found the atmosphere rather static and sterile.[/QUOTE] It felt too slow and the enemies were kinda boring to kill.
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