• Nigel Farage backpedals already, disowns Leave campaign pledge of £350M for NHS
    88 replies, posted
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50584877]Hindsight is 20/20, etc [/quote] Sorry but you're american. You don't understand whats going on here. It was obvious from the beginning. Farage has been filmed calling for privatisation of NHS. Gove co authored a book calling for NHS to no longer be universal healthcare. The leave campaign is headed by the most far right tories who generally want NHS to be gone. This is not hindsight. This was obvious to anybody who knows british politics and politicans.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50584877] These statements? Yeah, they're not helping. Actually they're hurting. A lot. It's snide, spiteful remarks like this that push people into defensive, emotional frames of mind and they [I]vote accordingly.[/I] When you browbeat somebody so much that they shut off all reason to keep your bullying out you've made an extremist and no, you don't get to complain when they act out on it. You're the one who was blaming the US for essentially growing ISIS (I'm doing a solid by not dredging your posts up again) and I'm sure you've had a hand in pushing somebody on the fence to the other side. So when a neutral third party comes along and says, "hey asshole, don't do this because you're actually hurting yourself," don't argue with him; he's trying to keep you from shooting yourself in the foot.[/QUOTE] What side? Are you thinking of this as "side vs side"?
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50584906]Sorry but you're american. You don't understand whats going on here.[/QUOTE][QUOTE]This is not hindsight. This was obvious to anybody who knows british politics and politicans.[/QUOTE]No I do, I disputed the numbers when my friend mentioned she was pro-leave and I asked why. I can sympathize with her hopeful position but I thought it was misguided and short-sighted. Had she brought up a philosophical argument like, "I don't like the idea of the UK being pulled into a federalized EU," I wouldn't have been able to argue because that's just a political belief and I can't argue that with numbers. I can tell you for a fucking fact that she didn't care about immigration considering she has a half-black kid and the dad's from Kenya. [editline]24th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Killuah;50584913]What side? Are you thinking of this as "side vs side"?[/QUOTE]I wasn't aware of a third side to "leave" or "not leave" because there isn't, it's a dichotomy.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50584932]No I do, I disputed the numbers when my friend mentioned she was pro-leave and I asked why. I can sympathize with her hopeful position but I thought it was misguided and short-sighted. Had she brought up a philosophical argument like, "I don't like the idea of the UK being pulled into a federalized EU," I wouldn't have been able to argue because that's just a political belief and I can't argue that with numbers. I can tell you for a fucking fact that she didn't care about immigration considering she has a half-black kid and the dad's from Kenya.[/QUOTE] but Britain wasn't being pulled into a federalized Europe? the fact we opted out of so much shit and weren't obliged to adopt them argues very strongly against the idea that Belgium was annexing us
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50584932]No I do, I disputed the numbers when my friend mentioned she was pro-leave and I asked why. I can sympathize with her hopeful position but I thought it was misguided and short-sighted. Had she brought up a philosophical argument like, "I don't like the idea of the UK being pulled into a federalized EU," I wouldn't have been able to argue because that's just a political belief and I can't argue that with numbers. I can tell you for a fucking fact that she didn't care about immigration considering she has a half-black kid and the dad's from Kenya. [/QUOTE] Noone has even brought up immigration in this thread except you
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50584942]but Britain wasn't being pulled into a federalized Europe? the fact we opted out of so much shit and weren't obliged to adopt them argues very strongly against the idea that Belgium was annexing us[/QUOTE]It's a hypothetical and people can vote based on the concern of hypothetical situations becoming realities. I didn't vote for McCain/Palin because I didn't want a chance of Palin being in the White House, I was mostly ambivalent toward both parties and McCain and Obama had positions I was equally for and against. That's beside the point that you missed: if she had made that argument I couldn't exactly argue it was [I]wrong[/I] but I can and did point out UKIP's numbers were wrong because I had tangible proof that says otherwise. [QUOTE=Killuah;50584945]Noone has even brought up immigration in this thread except you[/QUOTE]You're the posterchild for cognitive dissonance:[QUOTE=Killuah;50584152]I'd be glad to stop that when presented with anything substantial but "the immigrants" and "it'll work out ... somehow".[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Killuah;50584388]Legitimate criticism for the EU is needed. A lot of stuff goes wrong. But the problems the leavers want to fix are not due to "them immigrants" or "sovereignity" or "free Britain", the problems are due to turbocapitalism, greed, weapon deals, war mongering, environmental problems and the likes.[/QUOTE]Do you even read your own posts or do you just drift in and out in some kind of stupor? [editline]24th June 2016[/editline] [quote]"the immigrants"[/quote] [quote]"them immigrants"[/quote] Just to drive the point home.
Well there you have it, it was a bait and switch. On the plus side if Boris Johnson is tagged to be next PM he could win a lot of favors by keeping Osborn way the hell away from the government That alone could save your healthcare system
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50584995]It's a hypothetical and people can vote based on the concern of hypothetical situations becoming realities. I didn't vote for McCain/Palin because I didn't want a chance of Palin being in the White House, I was mostly ambivalent toward both parties and McCain and Obama had positions I was equally for and against. That's beside the point that you missed: if she had made that argument I couldn't exactly argue it was [I]wrong[/I] but I can and did point out UKIP's numbers were wrong because I had tangible proof that says otherwise. You're the posterchild for cognitive dissonance:Do you even read your own posts or do you just drift in and out in some kind of stupor? [editline]24th June 2016[/editline] Just to drive the point home.[/QUOTE] Well shit too many threads, You're right. Sorry for that that was really idiotic of me
[QUOTE=Killuah;50585091]Well shit too many threads, You're right. Sorry for that that was really idiotic of me[/QUOTE]I forgive you, it happens.
[QUOTE=Sableye;50585035]Well there you have it, it was a bait and switch. On the plus side if Boris Johnson is tagged to be next PM he could win a lot of favors by keeping Osborn way the hell away from the government That alone could save your healthcare system[/QUOTE] Boris himself is a big fan of privatising our public services. The NHS is fucked if he's in power, no matter the treasurer.
[QUOTE=dingusnin;50584276]Now that would be true, if I asked about murder, and if it should be legal. If people said yes, then those opinions are wrong for preservation issues. However, this is like saying "Do I want an orange or an apple". And just an FYI, neither choice makes you a retard. So stop calling people retards alright? If you have to descend to calling people retards, you have no place in Politics, and should not have a vote.[/QUOTE] If you're told "Also the orange will probably poison you and your family's livelihood and inhibit future generations finding work" then you're still a retard for picking the orange.
[QUOTE=Streecer;50583094]this is the worst excuse for a bold faced lie i've seen in a long time[/QUOTE] He only has literally 4 seats in Parliament, how the fuck on any grounds could he make a promise that the 350 billion will go to the NHS? He has absolutely no political grounds to make any promises since he holds negligible power in the U.K. Government. If he sat there and said yes, the 350 billion will go to the NHS, we'd all be here mocking him for making promises he has absolutely no power to even come close to guaranteeing. Also last time I checked "Let's" in English is a modifier that shows the following statement is purely suggestive; Unlike "We'll" which is them promising the following statement.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;50586315]He only has literally 4 seats in Parliament, how the fuck on any grounds could he make a promise that the 350 billion will go to the NHS? He has absolutely no political grounds to make any promises since he holds negligible power in the U.K. Government. If he sat there and said yes, the 350 billion will go to the NHS, we'd all be here mocking him for making promises he has absolutely no power to even come close to guaranteeing. Also last time I checked "Let's" in English is a modifier that shows the following statement is purely suggestive; Unlike "We'll" which is them promising the following statement.[/QUOTE] So he might as well have written "Let's spend 50 billion a week on the NHS!" - I mean, he couldn't possibly do it, but it is technically possible I guess. And then afterwards he can just say that obviously it was unrealistic and he shouldn't be held accountable for anything really?
[QUOTE=Broseph_;50586315]He only has literally 4 seats in Parliament, how the fuck on any grounds could he make a promise that the 350 billion will go to the NHS? He has absolutely no political grounds to make any promises since he holds negligible power in the U.K. Government. If he sat there and said yes, the 350 billion will go to the NHS, we'd all be here mocking him for making promises he has absolutely no power to even come close to guaranteeing. Also last time I checked "Let's" in English is a modifier that shows the following statement is purely suggestive; Unlike "We'll" which is them promising the following statement.[/QUOTE] 4 seats in parliament? Who are you talking about? Surely not Farage? Firstly, the figure specified was 350 million, not billion. Secondly, that is demonstrably a lie. That isn't an opinion - it's a fact, that sum was never available.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;50586575]So he might as well have written "Let's spend 50 billion a week on the NHS!" - I mean, he couldn't possibly do it, but it is technically possible I guess. And then afterwards he can just say that obviously it was unrealistic and he shouldn't be held accountable for anything really?[/QUOTE] Show me one thing linking him personally to this slogan. All the articles bashing it before today don't even mention him, they all say it's Boris Johnson doing.
We really need a universal law that penalizes politicians if they lie.
[QUOTE=Mesothere;50586606]4 seats in parliament? Who are you talking about? Surely not Farage? Firstly, the figure specified was 350 million, not billion. Secondly, that is demonstrably a lie. That isn't an opinion - it's a fact, that sum was never available.[/QUOTE] Farage as the leader of UKIP has 4 seats in Parliament, 1 in the commons, 3 in the house of Lords. So what are you even trying to argue with this point? And yes I made a mistake writing Billion instead of Million.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;50586632]Farage as the leader of UKIP has 4 seats in Parliament, 1 in the commons, 3 in the house of Lords. So what are you even trying to argue with this point? And yes I made a mistake writing Billion instead of Million.[/QUOTE] I guess you're right on a technicality - I hadn't considered the Lords, because they cannot form legislation. Anyway, here's your proof if you like. It's a video of Farage not only claiming the 350 million is up for grabs, but that it's too low and that he thinks the figure is higher. Elsewhere he has claimed it could be spent on the NHS [media]https://youtu.be/u1UUCDFZlBk?t=2637[/media] Skip to about 43 minutes in.
[QUOTE=Mesothere;50586817]I guess you're right on a technicality - I hadn't considered the Lords, because they cannot form legislation. Anyway, here's your proof if you like. It's a video of Farage not only claiming the 350 million is up for grabs, but that it's too low and that he thinks the figure is higher. Elsewhere he has claimed it could be spent on the NHS [media]https://youtu.be/u1UUCDFZlBk?t=2637[/media] Skip to about 43 minutes in.[/QUOTE] Yeah, excellent proof, mate. He stated [I]"We should spend that money here, in our own country, on our own people"[/I], his exact quote. I don't know how your warped that in your mind to him personally promising the NHS 350 Million a week; He didn't even mention the NHS at all.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;50587100]Yeah, excellent proof, mate. He stated [I]"We should spend that money here, in our own country, on our own people"[/I], his exact quote. I don't know how your warped that in your mind to him personally promising the NHS 350 Million a week; He didn't even mention the NHS at all.[/QUOTE] As in my original post: "Elsewhere he has claimed it could be spent on the NHS". This is not the only time Farage has referenced this figure. Go do some research. If you find it so difficult to google, let me know, I'll share some of the hundreds of interviews he's done. In the video, he invents an imaginary sum and then claims it can be spent on domestic matters instead of the EU. If this doesn't fit in your head because the wording isn't exactly as you expect then congratulations, you're missing the point.
[QUOTE=Mesothere;50587323]As in my original post: "Elsewhere he has claimed it could be spent on the NHS". This is not the only time Farage has referenced this figure. Go do some research. If you find it so difficult to google, let me know, I'll share some of the hundreds of interviews he's done. In the video, he invents an imaginary sum and then claims it can be spent on domestic matters instead of the EU. If this doesn't fit in your head because the wording isn't exactly as you expect then congratulations, you're missing the point.[/QUOTE] This thread is about him specifically promising the E.U. payments be redirected to the NHS. You have failed to show that.
"It was one of the mistakes that the leave campaign made"
[QUOTE=Broseph_;50587399]This thread is about him specifically promising the E.U. payments be redirected to the NHS. You have failed to show that.[/QUOTE] UKIP stood for election on a manifesto of doing exactly that.
[QUOTE=Flyingman356;50582896]I would give anything to be able to fucking shatter Nigel Farage's jaw and get away with it. His face is just begging for a hand-breaking punch.[/QUOTE]i don't want to be that guy that makes fun of a person's appearance, but is it just me or does this man look like a salmon? [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/hhaurPp.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=bradleigh;50587512]i don't want to be that guy that makes fun of a person's appearance, but is it just me or does this man look like a salmon? [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/hhaurPp.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] He reminds me more of a toad or some sort of deformed frog-man.
[QUOTE=Tehcmc;50587653]He reminds me more of a toad or some sort of deformed frog-man.[/QUOTE] Frankly, I've thought that of 90% of English politicians, and Trump. They're just not very photogenic.
[QUOTE=bradleigh;50587512]i don't want to be that guy that makes fun of a person's appearance, but is it just me or does this man look like a salmon? [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/hhaurPp.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] He's a human thunderbirds puppet
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50589061]He's a [b]human[/b] thunderbirds puppet[/QUOTE] Woah now. Let's not go lumping the rest of us with that reptile.
[video=youtube;vsH3rKsJwkc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsH3rKsJwkc[/video]
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