• ISIS burns 2 Turkish soldiers alive, releases video online
    118 replies, posted
Hands down the worst thing i've ever seen. Breaks my heart to know that these people not only didn't hesitate to do it that way, but staged, filmed and edited it while pretending it's some kind of justice. Hurts my soul man...
fucking daesh why can't we just die as humans when we burn like that - why is their bodies allowing them to melt to death and experience it
[QUOTE=Svinnik;51573628][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/fD3XR6b.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] Sometimes, fucked up people tend to forget that the even more fucked up people are still part of humanity. The poster you quoted advocated stooping to their level and this insane bitch advocated just dealing with collateral damage... Man. Just fuck humanity today. What a truly fucked christmas...
I've seen a lot of fucked up things on the internet over the years, and that probably falls near the top.
what were the soldiers saying before they got killed?
Y'all just haven't seen 2nd Chechen war videos, this ain't nothing. I do ask myself how many times they do these things off rather than on camera. Is this a common occurrence or do they only do their cruel executions when they want to shock the world? They'll get what they deserve, I don't think they'll last another decade.
[QUOTE=Bertie;51574293]Y'all just haven't seen 2nd Chechen war videos, this ain't nothing. I do ask myself how many times they do these things off rather than on camera. Is this a common occurrence or do they only do their cruel executions when they want to shock the world? They'll get what they deserve, I don't think they'll last another decade.[/QUOTE] I got a feeling many of them will escape and continue their crimes. it happene. With the Taliban and the iibs. next I think it'll be Dagestan area or the Balkan along with numerous things in Africa.
ISIS is so good at being evil. Instead of hiding and deceiving, they are showing the world their true nature with brutal and terrorising movies of magnificent quality.
Watching daesh videos would be like giving these assholes the spotlight they want. So, don't watch it, even if you're morbidly curious. Their days are numbered. I hope so anyway. Russia and the US need to step up on their game against these cunts.
watching this stuff in HD with all those cinematic effects is insanely unsettling. I can feel my mind numbing itself towards the end of this video from seeing something so intense.
We've been doing really nasty shit to each other for as long as we've existed, just that now we get to see it in full HD courtesy of modern technology.
[QUOTE=Tumama;51574615] I hope so anyway. Russia and the US need to step up on their game against these cunts.[/QUOTE] Stepping up in this case means one (or both) of the following things: - Boots on the ground because no way SAA or SDF can take on ISIS alone with only weaponry and air support supplied; - Indiscriminate bombings - ISIS hides their men, ordnance and vehicles among civilian objects, in towns and cities. One of the threads on Syria had pics posted, where tanks are shown to have structures built on top of them to make them impossible to discern from above - and it's the only method of reconnaissance available. To wipe them out you'll quite literally have to bomb and/or siege civilian objects like schools, hospitals etc. That's where they have their HQs, that's where they store their ordnance. And, lets say, everyone's kinda reluctant to do that and ISIS knows it. It'll either take time and minor civilian casualties or major civilian casualties. That's the nature of fighting this kind of enemy, unfortunately. Like, even by itself Syrian civil war is a very complicated and messy affair, but ISIS just takes the messiness of it to a whole new level. Fucked all around.
I personally can't ever imagine a mindset that would enable me to be this evil towards another human being.
Why I had watched the video first thing in the morning I will never know. I don't think I'm going to sleep tonight. It's really messing with my head. I don't know how the fuck these sick cunts sleep at night as they torture and kill others in the worst ways imaginable.
why are they alive as they melt
[QUOTE=Zufeng;51572289]If i can catch one of these fucking savages,i will torture them until near death,heal them,then do it again over and over. So they will taste the hell both on this world and afterlife.[/QUOTE] and this would make you different to them in what way?
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51575396]and this would make you different to them in what way?[/QUOTE]ironic, isn't it, because posts like that are the sound of the inner monster i mentioned clawing its way out
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51575396]and this would make you different to them in what way?[/QUOTE] In the way that he wasn't the initiator of violence. I don't believe in retributive justice but there is a difference.
[QUOTE=Recurracy;51573529]So you're saying that 100% of the ISIS fighters have psychopathy?[/QUOTE] I would say that anyone who gets behind this kind of violent ideology is certainly not of a sound mind. [editline]23rd December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Adrian Veidt;51575443]In the way that he wasn't the instigator of violence. I don't believe in torture or capital punishment but there is a difference.[/QUOTE] It's a kind of chicken and egg scenario.
All this is is isis (woah) trying to use scare tactics s and intimidation to either make their enemies irrational or demoralized.
[QUOTE=Recurracy;51573529]So you're saying that 100% of the ISIS fighters have psychopathy?[/QUOTE]The ones who burn Turkish Soldiers alive are yes.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51572729]Certainly didn't say that was a defining characteristic of being a kurd. Please do not try to dismiss my arguement with such a strawman. My point is people do bad things for a number of reasons, those kurds (not all kurds but that group of kurds) are doing awful things with nationalism (they want their own nation) as their justification. Ethnicity (they advocate for a kurd state) also plays a role as does politics (the PKK)[/QUOTE] Ok this seems to be a running them here. You're fundamentally misunderstanding my argument, which is where this is going sideways. My argument is that this behavior is a product of Islam, due to the ideas and doctrine that make up islam. A reliigon is a set of ideas and principals which come together to enforce core tenants, which then manifest in it's followers behavior and worldview. Islam isn't a race, it's a religion. When you identify as a muslim, you identify as taking on and professing belief and devotion to the ideas, dogma and principals that make up that religion. When you are a kurd, you are born a kurd and has little to nothing to do with who you are as a person. Being a kurd isn't a set of ideas and principals, it's an ethnicity. Fighting for sovereignty for your people is not an intrinsic value of being a kurd, it's a political belief one comes to buy into. Being born a kurd does not imbue you with the desire to commit terrorist acts, because that's a set of ideas, and not a trait inextricable from being a kurd. That isn't a strawman argument because i was rebuttling your argument, and observing that it was a false equivilancy. So let's follow the chain of that argument to prove it. [QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51572325] Its a socio economic thing, if there weren't Islam in that region then some other religion or cause would be used by these people to justify their terror.[/QUOTE] You asserted that it's a "socio economic thing", an assortment of outside forces and situations which are causing people who follow a certain religion to band together as a fledgling, self asserted state, and violently take over a large area in the middle east to establish a zone goverened by traditional, fundimentalist Islam, and act in this extremely barbarous way. Rape houses, burning people alive, decapitating journalists, all justified by the religion, but driven by external factors which you've simply yet to identify. [QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;51572347]Then why aren't the kurds burning people alive? Why do the christians stuck in the crossfire not band together and march as a christian state to retake the holy land, burning, torturing and raping any non christians who stand in their way? Why did the afghani buddhists not commit such heinous acts when threatened in the middle ages? Are they not stuck in the same place and are under the same conditions? [/QUOTE] So i countered, asking how you would explain other religious cultures in the area not acting in the same way, and even when fighting, like the kurds, not resorting to such acts of depraved brutality in the name of their religions. I had assumed you're under the impression that all aberhamic religions in the area were of roughly similar purpose, makeup and values, and wanted to know how you could explain this. My argument still being that this behaviour is fundimentally a product of the ideas and dogma that makes up islam. [QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51572408]Kurds are doing terror attacks against civilians in Turkey their motivation is ethnic/nationalistic.[/QUOTE] To which you gave the justification that there are in fact Kurds comitting acts of terror as well. But this is simply irrational and irrelevant to my argument. My argument is that this behavior is endemic to Islam due to it's nature. Resorting to terrorist behaviour to advance your belief in a Kurdish state and as a violent rejection of the Turkish state is [I]not[/I] an inextricable quality that defines you as a kurd, whereas i believe that the behaviour from ISIS that we're debating is a product of the ideas and doctrine that Islam is constituted on. And as identifying as a Muslim is inherently professing dedication to the ideas contained within Islam, and therefore associating and internalizing these ideas [I]is a defining quality of being a muslim[/I]. Not absolutely, i will not argue that no human is without agency, but to reject these ideas is un-islamic, and therefore my argument stands, despite the acceptions that you may find. Whereas all the factors you listed, "Nationalism" (not actually nationalism, simply the desire for a sovreign Kurdish state, which isn't even remotely the same thing) "Politics" and "Ethnicity" (Functionally the same argument as what you believe nationalism to be) are [I]not[/I] intrinsic to what it is to be a Kurd, and is therefore a false equivalency against my assertion that Islam is the cause for ISIS's behavior. That was not a strawman, it was a rebuking of your logic. And you have still yet to supply an argument as to why the christians in the area are not behaving in the same way [QUOTE] Late romans, dark ages, middle ages. Religion has been a claimed motivation for other none holy land stuff also. The spanish inquisition along with backlash and persecution of "heretics", I argue that religion (at the time part of the establishment) was used to justify these acts when the true motivation (by those organising the attacks) was to remove a threat to power. Catholics vs protestants - political and tribal. Spanish civil war, old establishment (catholic church being a huge part) fighting back against the new order (republicanism, liberalism and socialism). The church might have been involved in all of these conflicts but mainly because they were part of the establishment, without the church (but with the establishment remaining) or with a different religion it would have happened the same. There would be a conflict between old and new or a conflict over resources or land or power and some ideology (religion, politics etc) would be picked as a unifier.[/QUOTE] Well there is some truth to that, but it's a more complicated situation. Remember my argument is that ISIS and their beliefs is directly correlated with the core ideas and structures of belief/behaviour of Islam. Wheras the Catholic church was a [I]perversion[/I] of Christianity. Because if it wasn't, the Lutharian movement wouldn't have come out on top. I think we have to identify the core ideas and principals in western christianity and Islam. Christianity fundimentally stands on Kantian morality, Individualistic values, non violence and Egalitarian ideas. The catholic church acted against all of these to serve it's own ends in all the examples you give, and i feel this is sufficient to argue that it is a perversion of the religion, and not a direct manifestation of it, and is therefore irrelevant to this argument. [QUOTE]If that were the case why wasn't it done sooner? The pope called the crusade to secure his power (he had rivals) and as a political play to regain favour with the east romans. Socio economic situation - an umbrella term I used to cover none religious factors like poverty, hunger, stability, trade, society as a whole. Europe was divided and fighting amongst itself, the pope had rivals, lots of nobels were seeking a way to make a name for themselves. If christianity weren't present it would be the same but instead of a pope it would be some other political leader, europe would still be divided and that leader would seek to unite his followers and get rid of his rivals.[/QUOTE] Same counter argument as above. Also you seem to think that Catholisism, and the Catholic church as a political entity and christianity are the same thing. They are not. [QUOTE]Again you put words in my mouth. Stop doing that.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51572408]We did at one time, when our socio economic situation was different.[/QUOTE] So if your argument wasn't "we did this 1000 years ago too, therefore both acts are equvilant, and therefore you have no morale standing to argue against Islam" what was the argument here? [QUOTE]I do no morally pardon islamic fundimentalists burning people alive. I'm saying they would have done the same thing if they weren't islamic. They would pick a different religion or do it for ethnicity (in truth fight over resources) or for political reasons (again probably resources) [/QUOTE] Then why aren't the christians in the area doing it? It seems to me your beliefs are predicated on the idea that this is simply basic human behavior using any religion or miscellaneous reason to hand to justify these acts and ISIS's beliefs. But that doesn't explain why any of the other dozen religions in the area are not manifesting the same behavior. [QUOTE]They mostly converted. At the time islam was huge it was beneficial to convert, gain favour with muslim merchants. Islam didn't convert purely by the sword, many merchants converted for economic reasons and it spread that way. Once merchants turn then merchant settlements (on the silk roads and in ports) also would convert.[/QUOTE] Ok, so sure, they all converted several thousand years ago and didn't fight. What about the other cultures, religious bodies and miscellaneous minorities in the middle east [I]now[/I], under the same or worse socio economic conditions, who are currently not burning people alive? Are there any other distinguishing factors between islam and other groups? Because currently that seems to be the defining factors here. They're all in the same place, living in the same ways, despite your argument that those surrounding conditions are the rationale and motivating factors for this behaviour. So ok, let's assume this is true. We're all products of our enviroment, and if you live in that place, that's just how you are. Why is ISIS the only group doing this? Islam is the distinguishing factor. [QUOTE]Only only mentioned afhani buddhists, which other examples did you provide?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;51572347]Then why aren't[B] the kurds[/B] burning people alive? Why do [B]the christians stuck in the crossfire[/B] not band together and march as a christian state to retake the holy land, burning, torturing and raping any non christians who stand in their way? Why did the [B]afghani buddhists[/B] not commit such heinous acts when threatened in the middle ages? Are they not stuck in the same place and are under the same conditions? If anything, Islamic fighters are in the position of power in that place, and in some perverse way, [B]the kurds, christians, jews and other religious minorities[/B] have more justification for this kind of barbarism, such a showing of force being possibly the only way out from under the boot of ISIS. But they don't, do they?[/QUOTE] Those ones. [QUOTE]Before you put them here ignore their religion for a moment and look at conflicts in general. Most wars and conflicts can be reduced to a fight over resources, was there a fight over resources and was religion being used as a justification rather than legitimately being the cause?[/QUOTE] Do you not know what ISIS is? It's a movement of people who believe Islam should return to it's purest form, some arguing to go as far as to throw out the Hadiths and live [I]purely[/I] on direct, literal interpretations of the Quaran, and to assemble as a militarized force to take control over a large part of the middle east to establish a Caliphate governed absolutely by Sharia and Islamic traditions. This is not a war for resources, this is an ideologically driven campaign with a singular goal rooted in Islamic ideas. [QUOTE]Lebanon is next to syria and to my knowledge theres no sin tax, muslims and christians were getting on fine till all this IS silliness started. The reason for Jizya (and any "religious" sin tax) is they make it inconvenient to be a none muslim so the you have an economic incentive to convert thus making it easier for the establishment to influence and control you. If it weren't islam it would be Christianity or some other religion, maybe no religion at all.[/QUOTE] [video]https://youtu.be/jOaBNbdUbcA[/video] Here's the thing. All those things you listed? They're all taken from Sharia. In fact they're corner stones of Sharia. My entire point is that all this awful behaviour [I]is fundimentally islamic.[/I] [QUOTE]If it weren't islam it would be Christianity or some other religion See its not the religion saying "you must be an ass" its a leader seeing a threat to his authority and trying to minimise/remove that threat.[/QUOTE] Prove to me that any of this has [I]any[/I] standing in the core of Christianity. I fucking dare you. But you can't, because that just isn't true. The argument doesn't stand up, and renforces my argument that this behavior is Islamic. [QUOTE]There is a hindu supremacy movement.[/QUOTE] And does it have it's standing in the fundamental values of Hinduism? I can't imagine it does. [QUOTE] No its not ok. Please you must stop with this. Seriously if thats the message you got then you have a deficiency.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51572408] Can't deny this but most poor shitty areas atm are muslim. An example of christians in similar situation doing shitty things is Joseph #Kony[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;51572460] Do you really believe that being poor makes you think "well raping and killing is ok now because that's the only way i see to move upwards in the world, let's get the kerosene out then"?[/QUOTE] So what other interpertation of [QUOTE]most poor shitty areas atm are muslim. An example of christians in similar situation doing shitty things is Joseph[/QUOTE] is there? I assumed you meant that being in shitty situations made you behave in shitty ways, and any religious justification to hand would be used to manifest that behaviour, and it's roughly a constant effect. But that doesn't make any sense. As an example, a majority of people who beat/abuse their children were themselves abused as children. But if all who were abused as children constantly went on to abuse their children, there would be an absolute saturation of that behaviour. All people would do it. But that's not the case. Likewise, being in shitty situations does not remove your ability to act above and improve the situation, and just endlessly spiral into the chaotic abyss, as if that were the case, everywhere would be like that. There must be a contributing factor to the horrors of the middle east. [QUOTE] No they used to be prosperous and stable. I hope they can be that way again. Global warming might make it difficult but I believe that they, and we will mutually benefit.[/QUOTE] And then fundimentalist islam came around and that went away. And yeah the west destablized it because of it's own demons at the top, but a strong society and culture can endure such things. [QUOTE]Are not all violent animals acting in accordance with out (non-static) surroundings? We have a shortage of food, we try and get food, if that means violence to aquire that food then we use violence. [/QUOTE] No, we don't. The difference between animals and us is the ability to abstract the future and act pragmatically around our "simulation" of the future. We don't eat all our food in the summer and starve in the winter, we put some away and preserve it. Our ability to assess the greater situation, abstract it and act beyond the scope of our limited worldview is the sole distinguishing factor between us and animals. And that's not even the point i was making. [QUOTE]most poor shitty areas atm are muslim. An example of christians in similar situation doing shitty things is Joseph[/QUOTE] You seem to consistantly assert, if not outright state, that these people are a product of their surroundings, and their behavior is a reaction to their enviroment. And i argued that that was a denial of their agency as thinking creatures, with the ability to overcome surroundings. Again, see my example of non extrapolating patterns of child abuse, we have the ability to overcome our surroundings and histories because we have principals and ideas and systems of morality which are forged by a Darwinian process of effectiveness, which produces better and better principals, and better and better societies by effect. The claim that this behavior is simply a product of the environment is fundamentally denying that these people have that ability. And that is a horrible claim to make. There must be other factors, and i assert that those factors are the behavioral products of Islam. [QUOTE]They're not bombing others for the wrong "cannon" of islam. "Sunni" islamists are bombing innocent Sunnis for political reasons, they seek to rule through terror and subdue the populace who would otherwise not recognise their authority. Black panthers and anarcho capitalists mostly come from America which is far more stable than the middle east and parts of africa. Identity also plays into this. Look at this the other way. If islam was the problem why isn't my Muslim work mate trying to kill me?[/QUOTE] That's again assuming that nobody has any agency to take or rebuke ideas in Islam, even if they're identifying as Muslims. They're not trying to kill you because they're not absolutely practicing Islam, and have taken on western ideas, because people have that ability. They're decent people [I]Despite[/I] Islam or at best [I]Regardless[/I] of Islam, but not [I]Because[/I] of islam. That's not an argument against this behavior being rooted in Islam. 99.9% of suicide bombings are done by Muslims. That is an [I]absolute[/I] correlation. How can you explain that without finding the nature of Islam to be a unifying factor? Also Islam is also a system of government, so arguably any act done in the name of Islam is a political act. so that's funny. [QUOTE]No you fool, I don't think certain ethnicities are inherently more violent! You must learn to argue correctly. You will fail your first year philosophy if this is how you construct arguements.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51572408]I agree about it being a tool to control people, like christianity was at the time and still, at its core, is. At the time the above practices (killing apostates and capturing slaves) were the norm. Today they are not the norm. My muslim work mate doesn't kill her husband for eating pork and drinking. People in shitty places will do shitty things and blame their religion. Buddhists in Burma are commiting atrocities, [B][I][U]is that a religious thing? no. Its an ethnic thing[/U][/I][/B].[/QUOTE] :what: [QUOTE] Different situations drive people to act differently. If people feel threatened they are more likely to be violent. Violence is always more common when resources are more scarce. [/QUOTE] You do realize ISIS invaded this place deliberately, right? They want to be there. Surely if it was that stricken a place they'd go the fuck elsewhere. They have a rediculous amount of resources in the oil fields they captured and have a rediculous amount of money flooding in from donations, they are not wanting for resources. That's not a causal factor. [QUOTE]You didn't even read my post, that explains a lot. She is a muslim, her husband is the one who eats pork.[/QUOTE] That's still a rejection of Islamic rules to allow it though. My point stands. [QUOTE]A muslim can claim they're not a muslim anymore. Its the society they live in which may react. badly. In the UK it might be just fine or perhaps they will be shamed by their community (encouraged by the religious leaders to protect their authority) the same happens in sects of christianity. In jehovah witnesses if someone leaves then everyone is forbidden from talking to that person, they lose their entire friendship group, again a structure designed to protect authority and source of revenue for the church. Power and money more than religion or spirituality.[/QUOTE] Here's a map of where apostacy is punished by the state [url]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Apostasy_laws_in_2013.SVG[/url] That's not "The society reacting badly", that's [I]death or imprisonment substantiated by law.[/I] And do you know why that is? It's because that's what Sharia prescribes. This is a defining feature of Islam. And it's equally wrong when the JW's do it too, because that means their religion is so awful they have to bludgeon people into internalizing it. And yeah, it is a power mongering and totolitarian mechanic. [I]That's why it's wrong[/I]. [QUOTE]I've argued that point all along.[/QUOTE] You've stated the assertion, but have so far failed to give any substantiative evidence that that is in fact the case. [QUOTE]hopefully when you've got some sleep you'll read my post properly, not put words in my mouth and write a better post.[/QUOTE] Don't worry, i quoted you a lot this time.
Shit that post took a lot of effort. It's pretty pointless to argue "ISIS is unislamic" vs "ISIS is totally islamic" because, well, Islam is an ideology (special kind of ideology, religion). There's no [i]unifying[/i] dogma, just like there's no unifying dogma in Christianity, Buddhism or any other, there's no deity that sets rules in stone, it's people who practice this ideology who set those rules. Everyone is [i]interpreting[/i] ancient texts. If ISIS says they're Muslim, they are. So are people in Saudi Arabia, so are Russian Tatars who are even historically pretty much free from intolerance of other cultures. "Islam is against murder", no it isn't, no ancient religion is against murder. You're prohibited from killing other members of your religion, everyone else is fair game if you wish to interpret the texts in such a way, and that's the whole point. If at some point in Europe there would spring up cults of proper fundamentalist Christians (not like in central Africa, mind you) who follow it like the ancients did they wouldn't be much better than radical Islamists and they would be no less valid in calling themselves Christians.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;51571997]ISIS tends to inject people they take with muscle relaxers and tons of heroin. Most executioners that are captured mention heroin or methadone by name, but never get around to giving brands of muscle relaxers they use, but honestly if I had to gamble, it'd probably be Soma or Valium. Fucking horrid way to go out though. Turkish forces and the rebels have been taking a nasty beating in Al-Bab. Daesh has been using several VBIEDs and Drone IEDs to attack the Turkish columns. Mostly have been attacking inactive troops, so you get cases like some of the stuff in the video where they have troops chilling out in a building, and then a VBIED drives up and kills everyone. It's also worth mentioning that Daesh had managed to cut-off and capture two Leopard II tanks and one ACV-15. [t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0SgRtpXcAEw0N6.jpg[/t][t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0SgTg1W8AAKNEu.jpg[/t] [t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0SgSh9W8AEtGOQ.jpg[/t] Needless to say Turks and their FSA allies have been getting their asses handed to them. It also seems that with the many reports of defeat on the Turkish side of things, they are outright blocking whatever platform is being used to spread the media about it. [t]https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/77b0c7522249b0a8471c1e8eead1476efc6a15f845236eba07884b4dd6689157.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] They've lost at least 6 Leopard 2A4s so far and a few M60Ts near Al-Bab. ISIS has a lot of ATGMs [t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0dhvbxXcAA3boW.jpg[/t][t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0dhvbxW8AAJSy3.jpg[/t] [t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0dhvbxWQAA3WQw.jpg[/t][t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0dhvb0WIAA5hyK.jpg[/t]
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.