• Democrat wins Va. House seat in recount by single vote; creating 50-50 tie in legislature
    69 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Fort83;52990689]Has there ever been an election in the US so close that literally 1 voter changed the outcome? Like does that happen often or is this a super rare occurrence.[/QUOTE] There have been local elections where people vote for themselves and win because literally nobody else voted.
Turns out that Fredericksburg had incompetent shit happen in it from the administrators that's being overlooked with all this one vote nonsense going on. [QUOTE]And a recount is set for Thursday in Fredericksburg's District 28, where the Republican leads by 82 votes. Democrats have challenged that race in federal court, where they are seeking a new election because more than 100 voters were mistakenly given ballots for the wrong legislative district.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52992926]Update: Three judges have ruled to include a ballot that should've been seen as spoiled due to multiple candidates being marked - thus making it a tie. They will now draw lots to determine who won. None of this is a joke. It is also directly against the code -- which states if multiple candidates are marked the ballot is spoiled. They're choosing to ignore that - the justification being 'but the slash through the D's bubble means they 'erased that vote' and so they only voted for one candidate - and so we must honor their intent' Also if the loser of that tie decides [I]they don't want to accept the result[/I] then they can just ask for another recount. Also: [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/court-tosses-out-one-vote-victory-in-recount-that-had-briefly-ended-a-republican-majority-in-virginia/2017/12/20/ed979a70-e5b9-11e7-a65d-1ac0fd7f097e_story.html?utm_term=.4c2ded65486d]Source.[/url] Reporter's sketch of the vote in question. [media]https://twitter.com/JWPascale/status/943559301737713665[/media][/QUOTE] are votes anonymous? why can't they just like, contact the person who cast that vote and ask them personally what their intent was?
[QUOTE=Judas;52993215]are votes anonymous? why can't they just like, contact the person who cast that vote and ask them personally what their intent was?[/QUOTE] They're anonymous.
[QUOTE=Judas;52993215]are votes anonymous? why can't they just like, contact the person who cast that vote and ask them personally what their intent was?[/QUOTE] Uh yeah the secret ballot is a foundation of almost all liberal democracies
If you could identify a person and attach them to a vote, you can intimidate them or attack them. Nobody should be forced to put their name on their vote.
Actually just looked into it, the UK does have a system that would, with a court order, allow the votes to be matched up to the voters and fully audited, but it's never happened
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;52993481]If you could identify a person and attach them to a vote, you can intimidate them or attack them. Nobody should be forced to put their name on their vote.[/QUOTE] Um my ballot had my name and info on it, thats how you audit elections in general The secret bit is that you don't publicly state who voted for what.
They're gonna draw names out of a hat [url=http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/government-politics/virginia-elections-board-to-pick-random-winner-in-tied-house/article_203dc6b1-0cb6-5027-bc22-10b4ebfad10d.html]Source[/url] [quote] "[B]In those situations, the electoral board typically draws names out of a hat[/B]. I believe one locality uses an old fashioned tri-corner hat for these occasions," Alcorn said. "The state board typically draws names out of a glass bowl when we're picking the order of candidates for the ballot."[/quote]
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52993647]They're gonna draw names out of a hat [url=http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/government-politics/virginia-elections-board-to-pick-random-winner-in-tied-house/article_203dc6b1-0cb6-5027-bc22-10b4ebfad10d.html]Source[/url][/QUOTE] Can't have democracy being respected I guess
How about you obey the law and stop this tomfoolery you slimy shits. YOU LOST, GET OVER IT. Boy, I didn't think I'd be shouting that so soon after Moore won, but here we are already. [editline]20th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=proboardslol;52993647]They're gonna draw names out of a hat[/QUOTE] And if it comes up Democrat they're going to try best of three, I bet.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52993683]Can't have democracy being respected I guess[/QUOTE] The loser can request a recount though. Our state constitution needs a procedure for runoff election
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52993647]They're gonna draw names out of a hat [url=http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/government-politics/virginia-elections-board-to-pick-random-winner-in-tied-house/article_203dc6b1-0cb6-5027-bc22-10b4ebfad10d.html]Source[/url][/QUOTE] oh my god, its such an important seat and its just a freeking coin toss.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52993689]The loser can request a recount though. Our state constitution needs a procedure for runoff election[/QUOTE] The loser already requested a recount, and the recount resulted in him still losing.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;52994294]The loser already requested a recount, and the recount resulted in him still losing.[/QUOTE] You underestimate the American propensity for being a sore loser
Obviously I want the democrats to prevail in this case, but one vote IS a very small margin. So recounts are definitely in order, and there should be a debate about which ballots to include. It's only fair. With that said, the ballot that was posted shouldn't, in my view, be counted. A strike through doesn't have one particular meaning - it could signify both a negative and positive selection. Sure, the x for the Gillespie guy could signify that a strike through would be a negative, but who says that x isnt to signify that the voter decided not to vote for anyone for governor? Or maybe both the strike through and the x are positive selections? If the voter had voted for the republican candidate, wouldn't logic dictate that they would've put an x instead of striking through the other? The ballot isn't consistent enough for anyone to decide one way or the other, and thus it should be spoiled. And that's assuming the ballot rules aren't more strict, and actually allow for some "interpretation" of the ballot at all. Anyone got a link to the actual rules?
If this was the UK, that ballot would be instantly spoiled. No way should it be considered, your votes should be clear as day, if someone can't read the text saying how to vote on it and draws all over it, then its spoiled. Gotta say the US is borderline retarded with this shit if they're considering that as a valid vote.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;52995012]Anyone got a link to the actual rules?[/QUOTE] [url=https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title24.2/chapter6/section24.2-663/]Code of Virginia, Title 24.2, Chapter 6 § 24.2-663[/url] [quote]If a printed ballot is found to have been voted for a greater number of names for any one office than the number of persons required to fill the office, or if the title of the office is erased, the ballot shall be considered void as to all the names designated to fill such office, but no further, and the ballot shall be counted for the other offices on the ballot. In the case of a ballot scanner machine, an election official is authorized to cause the ballot scanner to receive the ballot and count it in accordance with this section. No ballot shall be void for having been voted for fewer names than authorized. If any person votes, either in person or absentee, more than one time in an election, all ballots received from such person shall be void and, if possible, not counted. If one such ballot has already been cast, any additional ballots received from such person shall be void and not counted.[/quote] No provision is made for "striking out" a selection. The ballot, at least for the General Assembly position, should be voided.
How the fuck is this not a parody? They're really going to just pull out a spoiled ballot from the trash and argue that it counts? I'd say if they're intent on literally discarding and rewriting the rules, they should bring out [I]all[/I] the spoiled ballots and work their way up until they realize that there's a reason there's very clear and strict rules. [editline]21st December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=gman003-main;52995041]No provision is made for "striking out" a selection. The ballot, at least for the General Assembly position, should be voided.[/QUOTE] Honestly, it should be specifically stated on the ballot that you [I]can not[/I] strike out a selection. It should clearly state that you must mark your selection with either one single cross inside a circle or by filling out one single circle, and that any other marking will void the ballot for that office. With no such clear rule, honestly I feel they have a case.
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;52995052]How the fuck is this not a parody? They're really going to just pull out a spoiled ballot from the trash and argue that it counts? I'd say if they're intent on literally discarding and rewriting the rules, they should bring out [I]all[/I] the spoiled ballots and work their way up until they realize that there's a reason there's very clear and strict rules. [editline]21st December 2017[/editline] Honestly, it should be specifically stated on the ballot that you [I]can not[/I] strike out a selection. It should clearly state that you must mark your selection with either one single cross inside a circle or by filling out one single circle, and that any other marking will void the ballot for that office. With no such clear rule, honestly I feel they have a case.[/QUOTE] They'd have a case if the ballot was somewhat consistent, but it just isn't. I don't see how you can read that ballot and say that you have a reliable answer as to what it's supposed to mean. Therefore it should be void (assuming the sketched copy is accurate, of course).
The reason that ballots with strikethroughs aren't counted is because it's possible someone tried to change someone else's vote.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;52995090]They'd have a case if the ballot was somewhat consistent, but it just isn't. I don't see how you can read that ballot and say that you have a reliable answer as to what it's supposed to mean. Therefore it should be void (assuming the sketched copy is accurate, of course).[/QUOTE] Well I agree it should be void, but I still think they have a case to argue. If the rules clearly stated how to vote and what isn't allowed, there would be no question. But since the rules don't say anything about crossing out a selection then I think that explains why Virginia is in this situation now. I'm not buying that this is the only vague ballot, though, and I think they should go through all spoiled ballots if they want to argue this.
See this is exactly why you have electronic machines, machines that will not let people do this, then print to a paper ballot. Nooo we gotta either got fully electronic with all the inherent weaknesses and exploits or fully paper with all the built in idiocy.
[QUOTE=Sableye;52995755]See this is exactly why you have electronic machines, machines that will not let people do this, then print to a paper ballot. Nooo we gotta either got fully electronic with all the inherent weaknesses and exploits or fully paper with all the built in idiocy.[/QUOTE] In Virginia we have paper ballots that are fed into a machine. That machine should be validating the ballot on the spot and spitting it back out of it's invalid IMO
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52995864]In Virginia we have paper ballots that are fed into a machine. That machine should be validating the ballot on the spot and spitting it back out of it's invalid IMO[/QUOTE] That is how it is designed to work - the machine validates it, and if it is invalid, it alerts the operator, who is supposed to discard the spoiled ballot and have the voter vote again. What I suspect may have happened is that the spoiled ballot was accidentally placed with all the valid cast ballots, and then the person voted again. Counting this ballot may result in a single person's vote being counted twice (due to someone else fucking up, not their own attempt at double-voting).
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52995864]In Virginia we have paper ballots that are fed into a machine. That machine should be validating the ballot on the spot and spitting it back out of it's invalid IMO[/QUOTE] Ya but why can't we make a machine that won't let you fill out an invalid ballot then print out a hard paper result
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52993683]Can't have democracy being respected I guess[/QUOTE] The issue is that ballot that broke the tie had both the Republican and Democrat candidate marked with a slash across the Repubc candidate but in another box he had put an X over the republican candidate to indicate he's voting for them. They're actually tied after the vote got thrown out.
So if the vote was invalid, what's happening now? Are they actually flipping a coin?
[QUOTE=Bertie;53000380]So if the vote was invalid, what's happening now? Are they actually flipping a coin?[/QUOTE] Actually, they're gonna draw the name, written on a piece of paper, from a hat. i'm fucking serious
[QUOTE=TheDrunkenOne;53000390]Actually, they're gonna draw the name, written on a piece of paper, from a hat. i'm fucking serious[/QUOTE] And if they cheat, no one will be able to prove it
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