Netanyahu says he will not allow Israel to be "submerged by a wave of illegal migrants and terrorist
63 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Killuah;48628589]Terrorist attacks like knifing a crowd of peaceful protestors?
Oh wait that was a far right zionist ....[/QUOTE]
Yishai Schlissel was most likely not a Zionist. His sect of Judaism generally does not recognize the government of Israel as a legitimate one. Judging by his actions, he was most likely a Kahanist or followed the teachings of Rabbi Kahane.
[QUOTE=Explosions;48628609]How is is hypocrisy if it's not the same group of people? Are Jews in Europe and the US somehow responsible for the actions of Jews in Israel?[/QUOTE]
Dude it's Lamar. He's a right wing ideologue who uses any and every method, such as not giving the full truth or generalization, he has to turn people against those he doesn't like. It's pretty much something that should be expected by now.
I don't see why a small country would be expected to take in refugees, it would become overpopulated. There are bigger countries in the area with large empty deserts, they should send the refugees there.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;48628906]I don't see why a small country would be expected to take in refugees, it would become overpopulated. There are bigger countries in the area with large empty deserts, they should send the refugees there.[/QUOTE]
Amen. Send them into the desert, there's no communities for them to wreck there.
[QUOTE=Conscript;48628626]This is true, but nowadays Jews have a nation to take care of. That means not being rootless, bleeding heart center-lefties without any national loyalties. [B]'Jewry' (who says that besides anti-semites) has been through one attempted genocide already.[/B][/QUOTE]
You're insinuating immigration is tantamount to genocide here.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;48628636]Yishai Schlissel was most likely not a Zionist. His sect of Judaism generally does not recognize the government of Israel as a legitimate one. Judging by his actions, he was most likely a Kahanist or followed the teachings of Rabbi Kahane.[/QUOTE]
The point is not the guy himself but the Israel government is systematically downplaying acts of terror done in the name of Judaism
[editline]6th September 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Explosions;48628609]How is is hypocrisy if it's not the same group of people? Are Jews in Europe and the US somehow responsible for the actions of Jews in Israel?[/QUOTE]
Seeing how Israel claims to be the spiritual, ethnic and governmental leader of all Jews, yes they are as long as they are not distancing themselves from that.
It'd be the same with Catholics and Vatican.
[QUOTE=Killuah;48628953]The point is not the guy himself but the Israel government is systematically downplaying acts of terror done in the name of Judaism
[editline]6th September 2015[/editline]
Seeing how Israel claims to be the spiritual, ethnic and governmental leader of all Jews, yes they are as long as they are not distancing themselves from that.
It'd be the same with Catholics and Vatican.[/QUOTE]
Bullshit. Israel doesn't claim to be the spiritual, ethnic, and governmental leader of all Jews.
The Israeli government is secular which is why the Haredim and Ultra Orthodox generally do not regard it as legitimate. Some religious Jews even say that Israel should not exist at all. If Israel was the spiritual leader of all Jews, there wouldn't be this conflict between the government and the Haredim.
As for an ethnic leader, Israel isn't be the ethnic leader of all Jews for the simple reason that there isn't just one ethnicity of Jews. There are Ashkenazim, Sephardim, Yemenites, and Beta Israel. All these groups have complex relations for each other and to claim that the (mostly Ashkenazi) Israeli government represents them all is just ignorant.
Finally, calling Israel the governmental leader of all Jews. This is the point where your statement goes from uninformed to retarded. Israel doesn't claim to be the governmental leader of all Jews for the simple reason that it legally cannot. An American Jew born in Brooklyn is not subject to the laws of Israel. Israel does make it easier for Jews to immigrate but that's about it. Israelis residing outside of Israel cannot vote or participate in the Israeli government.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;48629058]Bullshit. Israel doesn't claim to be the spiritual, ethnic, and governmental leader of all Jews.
The Israeli government is secular which is why the Haredim and Ultra Orthodox generally do not regard it as legitimate. Some religious Jews even say that Israel should not exist at all. If Israel was the spiritual leader of all Jews, there wouldn't be this conflict between the government and the Haredim.
As for an ethnic leader, Israel isn't be the ethnic leader of all Jews for the simple reason that there isn't just one ethnicity of Jews. There are Ashkenazim, Sephardim, Yemenites, and Beta Israel. All these groups have complex relations for each other and to claim that the (mostly Ashkenazi) Israeli government represents them all is just ignorant.
Finally, calling Israel the governmental leader of all Jews. This is the point where your statement goes from uninformed to retarded. Israel doesn't claim to be the governmental leader of all Jews for the simple reason that it legally cannot. An American Jew born in Brooklyn is not subject to the laws of Israel. Israel does make it easier for Jews to immigrate but that's about it. Israelis residing outside of Israel cannot vote or participate in the Israeli government.[/QUOTE]
The Israeli PM literally acts like king of the Jews, everything is "Jewish people" this, "Jewish people" that, the "Jewish state" etc.
[url]http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.641515[/url]
[quote]All these groups have complex relations for each other and to claim that the (mostly Ashkenazi) Israeli government represents them all is just ignorant.[/quote]
It may not represent them well, but it does lay claim to them as nationals and they would more easily achieve citizenship, just like any other nation-state does. Israel certainly isn't the spiritual leader of all jews like a Vatican state is, but it's not just a Jewish nation-state. It's [i]the[/i] Jewish nation-state.
[QUOTE=Lamar;48629088]The Israeli PM literally acts like king of the Jews, everything is "Jewish people" this, "Jewish people" that, the "Jewish state" etc.
[url]http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.641515[/url][/QUOTE]
He mentions Jews so much because Israel was founded as a homeland for the Jewish people. Who should he mention, the Italians?
[QUOTE=Pw0nageXD;48627454]Trump?[/QUOTE]
And the majority of European heads of state.
[QUOTE=Conscript;48629105]It may not represent them well, but it does lay claim to them as nationals and they would more easily achieve citizenship, just like any other nation-state does. Israel certainly isn't the spiritual leader of all jews like a Vatican state is, but it's not just a Jewish nation-state. It's [i]the[/i] Jewish nation-state.[/QUOTE]
Well I mean, the only reason it's [I]the[/I] Jewish nation-state is because there is only one of them...
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48628267] Ottoman empire, then a lot of the worlds current problems would never have happened.[/QUOTE]
The Ottoman Empire ruled through military force and was already on the decline. It would have fallen apart without western intervention.
[editline]6th September 2015[/editline]
Also. Yeah. Its dumb that people expect the west do something while not asking Asians, Israelis or the nations on the Arab peninsula to do anything.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48629230]Well I mean, the only reason it's [I]the[/I] Jewish nation-state is because there is only one of them...[/QUOTE]
Why do the Jews have the right to a nationstate but not other people? If Hungarians, Turks or really any other group said that it'd be racist.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48628267] the Ottoman empire, then a lot of the worlds current problems would never have happened.[/QUOTE]
Turkification and Anti-Shia stance of the Ottoman Empire are also one of the reasons why there's said problems.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48629245]The Ottoman Empire ruled through military force and was already on the decline. It would have fallen apart without western intervention.
[editline]6th September 2015[/editline]
Also. Yeah. Its dumb that people expect the west do something while not asking Asians, Israelis or the nations on the Arab peninsula to do anything.
Why do the Jews have the right to a nationstate but not other people? If Hungarians, Turks or really any other group said that it'd be racist.[/QUOTE]
Maybe because those other peoples already had their own nationstates? Also, Hungarians and Turks weren't one of the most hated and discriminated against peoples in history?
[QUOTE=Lamar;48629088]The Israeli PM literally acts like king of the Jews, everything is "Jewish people" this, "Jewish people" that, the "Jewish state" etc.
[URL]http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.641515[/URL][/QUOTE]
Just like the US leader says "American people" or the UK prime minister might say "British people."
[QUOTE=sgman91;48629300]Just like the US leader says "American people" or the UK prime minister might say "British people."[/QUOTE]
Not everybody in Israel is a Jew. Its like the American president saying white people or christians when addressing all of America.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;48629285]Maybe because those other peoples already had their own nationstates? Also, Hungarians and Turks weren't one of the most hated and discriminated against peoples in history?[/QUOTE]
Hungary was under the Eastern bloc and has been ruled by empires for centuries. They also have the number of nationstates as Israel, 1. The Jews are not special. Its racist to think that they should have a nationstate and that other groups shouldn't.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48629245]The Ottoman Empire ruled through military force and was already on the decline. It would have fallen apart without western intervention.
[editline]6th September 2015[/editline]
Also. Yeah. Its dumb that people expect the west do something while not asking Asians, Israelis or the nations on the Arab peninsula to do anything.
Why do the Jews have the right to a nationstate but not other people? If Hungarians, Turks or really any other group said that it'd be racist.[/QUOTE]
Yes but at least it would have fallen apart naturally rather than having arbitrary lines draw that divide the region even to this day. Not to mention, even if it fell apart, it would almost certainly have stopped at least some of the spread of Wahabism, IE the thing that's causing problems in Islamic countries today.
AND I NEVER SAID THAT! Do not put words in my mouth. I was simply denoting the fact that there's only one Jewish nation-state currently.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48629305]Yes but at least it would have fallen apart naturally rather than having arbitrary lines draw that divide the region even to this day.[/QUOTE]
The borders would have been based on the outcomes of wars like they are now. It would have been just as bad.
If anything the European powers maintained a peace during their rule.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48629300]Just like the US leader says "American people" or the UK prime minister might say "British people."[/QUOTE]
How is this even comparable? Your examples use nationality, while the Israeli PM refers to an ethnic group and excludes 20% of his country's population.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48629304]Not everybody in Israel is a Jew. Its like the American president saying white people or christians when addressing all of America.
Hungary was under the Eastern bloc and has been ruled by empires for centuries. They also have the number of nationstates as Israel, 1. The Jews are not special. Its racist to think that they should have a nationstate and that other groups shouldn't.[/QUOTE]
When did I say that other groups shouldn't have nationstates? Personally, I support the establishment of a Kurdistan, as does the Israeli government.
You are all missing a very important point.
From the AJ article, that of course kept it out of the first paragraph:
[QUOTE]Netanyahu said on Sunday that he would not allow Israel to be "submerged by a wave of illegal migrants and terrorist activists".
"Israel is not indifferent to the human tragedy of Syrian and African refugees... but Israel is a small country, very small, without demographic or geographic depth. That is why we must control our borders", he said at the weekly cabinet meeting according to his office.
[B]The announcement came a day after [U]Isaac Herzog, Israeli opposition leader[/U], said on Saturday that Israel should take in Syrian refugees, recalling the plight of Jews who sought refuge from past conflicts.[/B][/QUOTE]
Netanyahu's statement was a response to the opposition's leader call to take in Syrian refugees.
Netanyahu said that while he's not blind to the tragedy, Israel can't afford to take in these numbers of refugees, nor risk taking in so many potential terrorists (because almost all factions fighting in Syria right now consider Israel an enemy).
As someone that thinks that Netanyahu is wrong and that we should take in as many refugees as we can handle, I still think you're completely misrepresenting what he was trying to say.
[QUOTE=Wii60;48628337]whats with all this refugee stuff all of the sudden
like i first heard about it 3 days ago and im just generally confused.
is it like Illegal immigrants in the US or something?[/QUOTE]
We have a couple of wars going on in northern Africa and the middle east at the moment - which means we have a lot of refugees basically.
[QUOTE=ScumBunny;48631045]You are all missing a very important point.
From the AJ article, that of course kept it out of the first paragraph:
Netanyahu's statement was a response to the opposition's leader call to take in Syrian refugees.
Netanyahu said that while he's not blind to the tragedy, Israel can't afford to take in these numbers of refugees, nor risk taking in so many potential terrorists (because almost all factions fighting in Syria right now consider Israel an enemy).
[/QUOTE]
Hertzog is full of shit. We already accepted African refugees and look what happened: South Tel Aviv is literally riddled with crime, poverty and riots.
But of course, its OK to bash Israel for refusing.
[QUOTE=RzDat;48631698]Hertzog is full of shit. We already accepted African refugees and look what happened: South Tel Aviv is literally riddled with crime, poverty and riots.
But of course, its OK to bash Israel for refusing.[/QUOTE]
The state of all the refugees and illegal immigrants in Israel is not a result of Israel not being able to handle them. It's the result of the Netanyahu's government refusing for a very long period of time to have any sort of policy for handling immigrants that isn't "boo hoo the supreme court won't let us lock them all up forever and/or deport them".
If Israel was willing to spend any actual resources on taking in and integrating the real refugees (like, say, actually processing everyone and bothering to decide who is and isn't one) and finding humane solutions that don't clash with the country's own laws for all the rest including, yes, integrating some of them and providing the rest with basic services as long as they're here than yes, we could handle them.
Instead the government just pretends they're not there and lets them live as third rate citizens in major cities, blocking them from working or receiving services and then acting all surprised when poverty and crime pop up.
To illustrate my point: when the Supreme Court very recently (yet again) forbade the government from holding all illegal immigrants in a holding facility in the middle of the desert without trial for years on end or until they agree to leave, the government simply gave each one 64 NIS (about $16) and a note telling them to stay out of Tel Aviv and Ashkelon specifically and released them into the wild.
[QUOTE=Wii60;48628337]whats with all this refugee stuff all of the sudden
like i first heard about it 3 days ago and im just generally confused.
is it like Illegal immigrants in the US or something?[/QUOTE]
Kind of ignorant thing to say there.
I'm not gonna claim I know dick about this subject, but my general understanding is that there are a lot people coming from even poorer conditions than the poorest in your country.
[editline]7th September 2015[/editline]
Like, even as we speak, there are probably some people risking their poor lives crossing the border somewhere. Perhaps knowing that helps to clear your confusion.
[QUOTE=RzDat;48631698]Hertzog is full of shit. We already accepted African refugees and look what happened: South Tel Aviv is literally riddled with crime, poverty and riots.
But of course, its OK to bash Israel for refusing.[/QUOTE]
So you take in immigrants, do fuck all to actually integrate them and then complain when shit goes literally south?
Congrats you are at the stage as Germany was in the late 80's/early 90's.
Zionism's Master Plan for World Power at work right here...
It's not a conspiracy theory, it's happening...
I rest [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1484940"]my[/URL] case!
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48628269]No, I'm not, thanks for putting words in my mouth.
Everyone should do their fair share, is Israel really doing that at all?[/QUOTE]
Your words heavily imply that, do not deny it.
Also article states that they already have 45k refugees.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;48632086]Kind of ignorant thing to say there.
I'm not gonna claim I know dick about this subject, but my general understanding is that there are a lot people coming from even poorer conditions than the poorest in your country.
[editline]7th September 2015[/editline]
Like, even as we speak, there are probably some people risking their poor lives crossing the border somewhere. Perhaps knowing that helps to clear your confusion.[/QUOTE]
He was referring the U.S. problem with immigrants crossing the border from Latin american countries, who suffer from massive poverty and violent crimes. The situation with war and economic refugees in Europe is much more of a pressing concern than immigration from Latin America.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.