"Whiteness burning": UCT Students are throwing “colonial” art on the pyre. Forgot College education
442 replies, posted
[QUOTE]Aw man, that girl has a great ass and personality. Shame I don't get a tax credit, thats a deal breaker.[/QUOTE]
That program would probably just burn money.
[QUOTE=Daysofwinter;49779364]I have read your statements and I assume your position is of the left. This denouncement of my idea is hypocritical of you if this is true. How was affirmative action achieved? Through judgement on race by the government. How was equality in south Africa achieved? On race and through the actions of the government.
My view is this, as long there are differences, there will be conflict and inequality. The key to ending this is through eroding said differences.[/QUOTE]
So if Asians or Whites for example are being too successful we should be bringing them down because of their race? I'm not in favor of affirmative action because its discrimination and it insults the achievements of hardworking minorities that deserve their place in the institutions. There should be a focus on helping poor people, not black people.
Also, viewing black people or any other minority as "the other" that deserves special/different treatment is always going to mean racism. You need to be colorblind to end racism.
[editline]20th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=proch;49779348]Whites are awful, and their rule is terrible. Just look at how awful rhodesia was before it became zimbabwe[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately the apartheid state was better. Having rebels backed by North Korea running any country is bound to be bad. Even with sanctions placed on them by every country Rhodesia still managed to at least have an economy.
People are actually supporting this charade ?
[QUOTE=Daysofwinter;49779364]
You are a wonderful beacon of progress. My point is the current means of achieving equality has failed and is not working. At least I am trying to come up with new ideas. You are not.[/QUOTE]
This is the same fallacy as people who say "well, why don't YOU make a better movie/game/song/whatever" when an individual criticizes something.
Not only that you're turning criticism of your ideas back on those making criticism.
Lmao.
[editline]20th February 2016[/editline]
Like you didin't even address my criticsm and just went "well do YOU have a better idea?"
What a joke.
[QUOTE=Daysofwinter;49779364]Any one who does not think exactly like me must not be human, thus worthy of derision.[/QUOTE]
You think tax deductions will get people to go out of their way to find love with someone of another race, and put aside deeply ingrained prejudices based on race? Yeah, that's worthy of derision dude. Nothing personal but that is a really, really stupid idea.
[QUOTE=bdd458;49779426]This is the same fallacy as people who say "well, why don't YOU make a better movie/game/song/whatever" when an individual criticizes something.
Not only that you're turning criticism of your ideas back on those making criticism.
Lmao.
[editline]20th February 2016[/editline]
Like you didin't even address my criticsm and just went "well do YOU have a better idea?"
What a joke.[/QUOTE]
So what is your position and idea to solve the issue addressed in the OP?
As for your criticism, what would happen is people would compete to have the most mixed marriages. Where the current method is to compete to see who is the most pc and victimized. Which leads to trouble.
[QUOTE]You think tax deductions will get people to go out of their way to find love with someone of another race, and put aside deeply ingrained prejudices based on race? Yeah, that's worthy of derision dude. Nothing personal but that is a really, really stupid idea.[/QUOTE]
So what is your solution to the issue presented in the OP?
[QUOTE]So if Asians or Whites for example are being too successful we should be bringing them down because of their race? I'm not in favor of affirmative action because its discrimination and it insults the achievements of hardworking minorities that deserve their place in the institutions. There should be a focus on helping poor people, not black people.
Also, viewing black people or any other minority as "the other" that deserves special/different treatment is always going to mean racism. You need to be colorblind to end racism[/QUOTE]
I agree but that not how its going, is it? As long there differences and sense of separate identities, there will be inequality and conflict. Erode the sense of separateness and differences and you might have a more feasible solution.
[QUOTE=Daysofwinter;49779544]So what is your solution to the issue presented in the OP?[/QUOTE]
I don't know, it's a complex issue. All I know is that it will require much more than a half-assed tax deduction to end racism, which should be obvious to anyone that thinks about it for more than 5 seconds.
[editline]20th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Daysofwinter;49779544]As for your criticism, what would happen is people would compete to have the most mixed marriages..[/QUOTE]
Dude you're seriously out of your own head on this one lol. You understand that in the real world, people choose their partners based on everything [I]but[/I] tax incentives, right? People meet each other naturally, they see how well they get along, there's sexual attraction and the consideration of social groups, shared interests and a variety of other factors. Nobody is going to go out of their way to find an interracial partner just for some measly tax break. You need to seriously stop and consider how ridiculous you sound.
How little life experience does one have to have to suggest that people marry for tax purposes first, and love second
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49779581]How little life experience does one have to have to suggest that people marry for tax purposes first, and love second[/QUOTE]
Ive seen people marry for tax incentives and money more then love. Maybe I've been the exception.
The idea remains the same. As long there is a sense of difference and separateness, there will be inequality and conflict. Erode that and conflict and inequality will cease.
[QUOTE]You understand that in the real world, people choose their partners based on everything but tax incentives, right?[/QUOTE]
The other way is a la Lebensborn.
I do not think that the way to go.
Beside I didn't come up with the idea.
[QUOTE=Daysofwinter;49779659]Ive seen people marry for tax incentives and money more then love. Maybe I've been the exception.
The idea remains the same. As long there is a sense of difference and separateness, there will be in equality and conflict.[/QUOTE]
Well then your experiences are the outlier and are likely to lead to really high divorce rates because you're basically just putting together people for no purpose besides economics.
I have no problem with "eroding the barriers between race" but incentivizing relationships like that is literally retarded.
[editline]20th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Daysofwinter;49779659]
The other way is a la Lebensborn.
I do not think that the way to go.
Beside I didn't come up with the idea.[/QUOTE]
So if we don't agree with you about tax incentivizing this nonsense, we're literally racists
no, no, fuck no, stop it.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49779685]Well then your experiences are the outlier and are likely to lead to really high divorce rates because you're basically just putting together people for no purpose besides economics.
I have no problem with "eroding the barriers between race" but incentivizing relationships like that is literally retarded.[/QUOTE]
I would like to hear your ideas on how to achieve the main point behind my idea.
The article in the OP illustrates how the current left's proscribed notions of achieving equality and ending discrimination is not working.
To me, the wise idea is ask why things went wrong and come up with new ideas to correct the deficiencies.
[QUOTE=Daysofwinter;49779696]I would like to hear your ideas on how to achieve the main point behind my idea.
The article in the OP illustrates how the current left's proscribed notions of achieving equality and ending discrimination is not working.
To me, the wise idea is ask why things went wrong and come up with new ideas to correct the deficiencies.[/QUOTE]
I don't need to have a better idea to tell you your idea isnt fucking going to work dude
what a non sequitor
So you think that if these people had tax breaks to marry across the racial barrier, that alone would end racism that has over centuries of history? How exactly does that do anytihng? Does that make it easier for socialization to happen? For stigma's to die down?
Do you understand how little this applies to the real world?
I don't know what Africa should do, but I know that here, in my city, a more multicultural place than most places in the world, there is no tax incentive for cross racial marriages, yet we have tons of them, and don't have racism problems. But no, obviously a measley tax break is the answer to a complicated social and historical problem.
No it fucking isn't.
Who would have thought that people whose land was invaded, their ancestors slaughtered, their land taken and even after they were allowed in white cities (which is still on the land of the natives) treated like animals for their skin color, would now act on their hate and fury of the past? Now where they finally aren't oppressed anymore on their own land.
I'm not saying that justifies what they are doing. Burning books and art is never good. But
just because the people who suffered the most under European atrocities are dead, the majority of the people who committed these atrocities are also dead and got away with it, you can't actually say "LOL, guess you can't really punish anybody now and we will have to live without any justice being enacted on your side haha XD forgive and forget bros :^)".
Am I saying that this is right? No. But I can't even fathom that people are ACTUALLY surprised when this happens.
[QUOTE=RaptorJGW;49779719]I'm not saying that justifies what they are doing. Burning books and art is never good. But
[/QUOTE]
I love when a person states something then sequiturs to their actual opinion with the word "but"
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49779710]I don't need to have a better idea to tell you your idea isnt fucking going to work dude
what a non sequitor
So you think that if these people had tax breaks to marry across the racial barrier, that alone would end racism that has over centuries of history? How exactly does that do anytihng? Does that make it easier for socialization to happen? For stigma's to die down?
Do you understand how little this applies to the real world?
I don't know what Africa should do, but I know that here, in my city, a more multicultural place than most places in the world, there is no tax incentive for cross racial marriages, yet we have tons of them, and don't have racism problems. But no, obviously a measley tax break is the answer to a complicated social and historical problem.
No it fucking isn't.[/QUOTE]
My idea isn't important. The point I am saying and always said, the current methods are not working. Thus the need to brain storm new ideas. Plus I do not know how it works in Canada. In America, I do not see cross socialization happen that much. Maybe the better question is why is it prevalent where you live and not where I live?
The other way to make my idea is force it a la lebensborn . I do not agree with that.
[QUOTE=Daysofwinter;49779857]My idea isn't important. The point I am saying and always said, the current methods are not working. Thus the need to brain storm new ideas.[/QUOTE]
Racism isn't something that you can just fix with one ridiculous half baked solution.
It can only be eroded over time by treating people as you would treat anyone.
[QUOTE]"LOL, guess you can't really punish anybody now..."[/QUOTE]
Well yeah. You can't punish anybody.
[QUOTE=Thlis;49779874]It can only be eroded over time by treating people as you would treat anyone.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you, but the end of that statement isn't exactly right. Or at least it doesn't take into account how racists think.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49779994]Well yeah. You can't punish anybody.[/QUOTE]
Yes. The natives should just swollow it, amirite?
Do you actually lack the self awarness to see on what kind of high horse you are when you say something like that? Or are you playing dumb on purpose?
[QUOTE=Daysofwinter;49779696]I would like to hear your ideas on how to achieve the main point behind my idea.
The article in the OP illustrates how the current left's proscribed notions of achieving equality and ending discrimination is not working.
To me, the wise idea is ask why things went wrong and come up with new ideas to correct the deficiencies.[/QUOTE]
I just want you to know your idea was tried in a South American country and it did not work.
[I]die whitey die[/I]
[QUOTE=RaptorJGW;49780008]I agree with you, but the end of that statement isn't exactly right. Or at least it doesn't take into account how racists think.
Yes. The natives should just swollow it, amirite?
Do you actually lack the self awarness to see on what kind of high horse you are when you say something like that? Or are you playing dumb on purpose?[/QUOTE]
So who should South Africa and Canada punish for crimes that happened in the 1500s-1900s?
Also, should black south africans and natives just hate white and non-white invaders forever?
[QUOTE=RaptorJGW;49779719]Who would have thought that people whose land was invaded, their ancestors slaughtered, their land taken and even after they were allowed in white cities (which is still on the land of the natives) treated like animals for their skin color, would now act on their hate and fury of the past? Now where they finally aren't oppressed anymore on their own land.
I'm not saying that justifies what they are doing. Burning books and art is never good. But
just because the people who suffered the most under European atrocities are dead, the majority of the people who committed these atrocities are also dead and got away with it, you can't actually say "LOL, guess you can't really punish anybody now and we will have to live without any justice being enacted on your side haha XD forgive and forget bros :^)".
Am I saying that this is right? No. But I can't even fathom that people are ACTUALLY surprised when this happens.[/QUOTE]
but how do you actually go about punishing people for things their ancestors did? Them not being here doesn't make what they did right, but it does make it wrong to charge people who didn't actually do those things with those things.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49779409]People are actually supporting this charade ?[/QUOTE]
Whites colonize Africa, ship loads of the people there overseas to be slaves, then settle in the south of it and oppress the rest for generation upon generation, ending just in 1994 - 22 years ago.
You expect the people are going to be totally cool today? No hard feelings, bro, it was just a prank?
Get real.
Nobody's supporting the nonsense that's going on over there. But we've got right to judge it, either.
Apartheid was an African word that entered the English lexicon BECAUSE of the bullshit that was going on there.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49779409]People are actually supporting this charade ?[/QUOTE]
I think some people are supporting it Ganerumo.
[QUOTE=RaptorJGW;49780008]
The natives should just swollow it, amirite?
[/QUOTE]
Yeah.
Because if I was those students? If I saw how my parents had suffered under apartheid? I'd feel the same.
Like it or not, the sins of our fathers are borne by their sons.
Human beings have a long memory. We don't forgive, and we don't forget. And those living in South Africa won't forgive or forget for many generations yet.
I cannot blame them.
I don't see how you can just let it go though.
Yes, it's a horrible thing their ancestors went through. Clearly dwelling on it, acting violently because of it, and creating more conflict is a good method to deal with it going forward though?
We do forgive, we do forget. We should practice forgiving a bit more often.
Regardless of what ones forefathers do, you are not them, and you may benefit, or suffer, because of their actions, but you had no choice in that and visiting blame upon you for that reason is pointless, and creates more conflict, and more problems.
If you honestly can't argue that they should use more civil methods of fixing their really fucked up history and current world, then you aren't helping anyone, just advocating for chaos.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49780400]I don't see how you can just let it go though.
Yes, it's a horrible thing their ancestors went through. Clearly dwelling on it, acting violently because of it, and creating more conflict is a good method to deal with it going forward though?
We do forgive, we do forget. We should practice forgiving a bit more often.
Regardless of what ones forefathers do, you are not them, and you may benefit, or suffer, because of their actions, but you had no choice in that and visiting blame upon you for that reason is pointless, and creates more conflict, and more problems.
If you honestly can't argue that they should use more civil methods of fixing their really fucked up history and current world, then you aren't helping anyone, just advocating for chaos.[/QUOTE]
Ancestors? It was their freaking parents.
[QUOTE=archangel125;49780333]I cannot blame them.[/QUOTE]
lol, easy to say from a swivel chair in your bedroom. Meanwhile white people in South Africa are even more fucked than before because they have to deal with roaming gangs of moron students destroying the city and blaming white people for all their problems. You'd probably be a bit less understanding if you were a white guy trying to walk to work in a city full of people that hate you.
I've got a question.
A lot of people defended the confederate flag, saying that it was an important piece of history, and wasn't inherently racist. The civilization of the confederates, however, was built on the black of slaves and was often depicted all over the confederate-supporting states with some sort of glorification of the past. If a lot of angry black people were to destroy all of these things, I wouldn't really give a shit and feel some sympathy. It's not simply being remembered that point, it's being [I]missed[/I], and that's bullshit that seeps into people's mentality and treatment of black people.
Now, let's not make a 1:1 comparison. In fact, that's the question I have to make: how much of this can be compared with my first scenario? Were these glorifications of the past without context? Sure, there was apparently great stuff that got caught in the crossfire, but was there stuff that loomed over these people every day as a burning reminder of the authority that did so much harm while also being pinned up as a great mind of history?
I don't feel so set on this because I don't know the full story. It was mentioned previously in the thread but I don't think it was discussed to the fullest extent. I will say I don't think that the protesters were completely justified or unjustified, but there's nothing in this world but grey areas.
[QUOTE=Thlis;49779779]I love when a person states something then sequiturs to their actual opinion with the word "but"[/QUOTE]
This. So much. Can't tell you how many times I've thought the exact same thing.
"But" nothing. This is not acceptable behavior. It's that fucking simple: the sins of the ancestors do not carry on down to their children, burning and destroying shit and behaving like a bunch of goddamn savages calling for the death and destruction of a race of people is not going to be tolerated and should not be tolerated under these ridiculous circumstances, and that's all there is to it. If you want to act like animals, go do it somewhere else-- and moreover, stop destroying things that don't belong to you for no reason at all.
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