• Vegetarians are less healthy and have a lower quality of life than meat-eaters, scientists say
    142 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Saturn V;44469442]Why do people have to make a big deal out of something other people eat?[/QUOTE] Because what billions of people eat actively shapes the way we treat our planet.
[video=youtube;nkYdx7n4nF8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkYdx7n4nF8[/video] but but but but meat is murder! [QUOTE=AtomicSans;44469423][IMG]http://puu.sh/7YiMa.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] "Clever with a higher intelligence" he can't even fucking type properly
Suck it, PETA.
Not going to stop me from having a vegetarian diet. I doubt if a study came out saying that vegetarianism was the healthiest form of diet then all meat eaters would switch to a vegetarian diet.
I don't care what I eat. If it's good then I eat it.
[quote](1) health (self-reported health, impairment due to health problems, number of chronic conditions, vascular risk), (2) health care (number of visits to the doctor, number of vaccinations, number of used preventive care offers), and (3) quality of life (physical and psychological health, social relationships, and environment).[/quote] Holy fucking shit. Of course in an established meat-eating society this will yield you vegetarians who actually [B]think[/B] they are less healty/need to be more healthy and visit the doctors much less.
I think it's funny how, almost every other time, Facepunch will criticize a study if it doesn't follow proper scientific method. Yet when it aligns with their views, they completely ignore any flaws and say "See? Hah, I told you so!" [B]Edit:[/B] And before anyone says "It's almost as if Facepunch is a group of different people and not a single entity," that's bullshit. The ratings system on this site actively encourages a single viewpoint and shows that the majority of people here share extremely similar views.
[QUOTE=AtomicSans;44469423][IMG]http://puu.sh/7YiMa.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://puu.sh/7YiNR.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://puu.sh/7YiPo.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://puu.sh/7YiRb.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://puu.sh/7YiSq.png[/IMG] "Emotional pollution" I'm dying[/QUOTE] I like how all their arguments are wrong.
Also I don't see ANY mentioning of how long the questioned individuals have been vegetarians.
Just gonna post this quote from the paper: [quote]"Potential limitations of our results are due to the fact that the survey was based on cross-sectional data. Therefore, no statements can be made whether the poorer health in vegetarians in our study is caused by their dietary habit or if they consume this form of diet due to their poorer health status. We cannot state whether a causal relationship exists, but describe ascertained associations."[/quote] and from a user: [quote]The key word here seems to be association. Playing devils advocate- couldn't it also be that people who are prone to mental disorders, cancer, diabetes and any other condition that would require high medical care opt for vegetarian diets and avoid drinking alcohol because of the widely available nutritional studies that provide evidence of reversing such health problems? This kind of sounds like if I said I had research proving tutoring programs are dominantly associated with slow learners. Sure that could be, but does that mean being in a tutoring program causes you to be a slow learner?[/quote]
[QUOTE=J!NX;44469474][video=youtube;nkYdx7n4nF8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkYdx7n4nF8[/video] but but but but meat is murder! "Clever with a higher intelligence" he can't even fucking type properly[/QUOTE] At 1:50, I literally had to step back and laugh my ass off "does it give you the right to eat other creatures?! do you think they would eat you?!" actually yes. We were terrified of wolves and tigers for a pretty good damn reason, and its sorta why we have Game Rangers dispose of "human killers". It's a constant battle for dominance.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44469630]At 1:50, I literally had to step back and laugh my ass off "does it give you the right to eat other creatures?! do you think they would eat you?!" actually yes. We were terrified of wolves and tigers for a pretty good damn reason, and its sorta why we have Game Rangers dispose of "human killers". It's a constant battle for dominance.[/QUOTE] wolves avoid us because they know we are batshit insane and completely unpredictable.
[QUOTE=AtomicSans;44469423][IMG]http://puu.sh/7YiMa.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://puu.sh/7YiNR.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://puu.sh/7YiPo.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://puu.sh/7YiRb.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://puu.sh/7YiSq.png[/IMG] "Emotional pollution" I'm dying[/QUOTE] these people are why there's this idea that all vegetarians are fucking idiots. Just want to say that I'm a vegetarian, I'm pretty healthy as in I have no real health problems (I had asthma as a kid but ehh) The problem is that this causes both sides of stupid to come out, the vegetarians as seen above, and a lot of meat eaters to get all "hurr dur eat bacon" about the entire thing. I, personally don't think that the thing is massively accurate, as they said, only 2.2% of the people that they asked were vegetarian. If someone was to come back and do this with a larger amount of people, and then proved it, I would have no problem accepting it. Obviously one person on the internet is going to that much of a reliable source, even less so seeing as as well being a vegetarian, I am also a phenomenally fussy eater because I'm of the opinion that you should eat things that you like. So yeah, I think this is wrong, people should be aloud to eat what they like whatever the results of this, without either side being all babyish about it
[QUOTE=absolalone111;44469652] people should be aloud to eat what they like whatever the results of this, without either side being all babyish about it[/QUOTE] This is what I can't agree with. It's not universaly true so we have a point where people need to start argueing. It's easy to buy a piece of meat without thinking about its environmental impact.
[QUOTE=J!NX;44469645]wolves avoid us because they know we are batshit insane and completely unpredictable.[/QUOTE] They still occasionally go out and maul people, same thing with wild dogs.
[QUOTE=J!NX;44469645]wolves avoid us because they know we are batshit insane and completely unpredictable.[/QUOTE] and we avoid wolves because we know they are batshit insane and completely unpredictable
dodgy study, bad conclusion, typical bad facepunch reaction most vegetarians aren't vegetarians because "suck it i am healthier than you". sure if you bug them with questions they might give that as a reason, and they might be wrong, but who the fuck cares most people are vegetarian because they like animals and don't like most farming methods that all but the most expensive products use. might they be less healthy for forsaking meat? maybe a little bit. enough to seriously impact them in modern western society? no of course not. so stop caring so much about what other people do with their bodies. too much of facepunch has this "holier [cleverer] than thou" attitude and treats vegetarianism like they treat religion, or anything even remotely related to being a hippy or a 'hipster' with this "you're an idiot if you do something without scientific evidence" idea being vegetarian makes some people happy and makes them feel good about themselves because they have a world view that most facepunchers don't have. is that world view illogical? i dunno maybe but who fucking cares really
sausage delicious
What does it prove to argue with militant vegetarians over non ethical reasons. What is that, about 3 people on planet earth? Nobody gets any passion about this subject unless it's about the cruelty. Let's not argue .0000001% of the argument being made against vegetarians that can just as well apply to everyone who doesn't do something for it's health benefits.
[QUOTE=Killuah;44469457]That's not the point. It's know that people tend to lie to themselves by answering the "better" option in these kind of studies.[/QUOTE] random measurement error, it cancels itself out especially when it's on an ideological basis like this. yes it's known that people lie however generally the lying goes in both directions and results in a net change of zero that effectively has no impact on the statistical significance of a study [editline]6th April 2014[/editline] HOWEVER there's a tonne of other issues with this but it's also simply a matter of the study being misinterpreted
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;44469859]random measurement error, it cancels itself out especially when it's on an ideological basis like this. yes it's known that people lie however generally the lying goes in both directions and results in a net change of zero that effectively has no impact on the statistical significance of a study [editline]6th April 2014[/editline] HOWEVER there's a tonne of other issues with this but it's also simply a matter of the study being misinterpreted[/QUOTE] Second point, true, first point: why would people lie in the "other direction"
i'm not sure why they did cross sectional analysis instead of just doing a simple regression tho??? probably got shitty alphas or r squares [editline]6th April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Killuah;44469885]Second point, true, first point: why would people lie in the "other direction"[/QUOTE] because there's no "higher moral" component to being a vegetarian sure your complaint would have some clout if the question asked was along the lines of "do you think it should be morally acceptable to fuck children?" where it's going to DEFINITELY go into one direction as there's an overarching social norm that dictates that individuals should say "NO". there's no shared conclusion on whether or not being a vegetarian makes you a better person, just like there's no shared conclusion as to whether or not going to church makes you a better person, etc. when there's no shared conclusion and no external component that will push the results in one direction, it's been shown that the effects of "lying" on surveys cancel each other out entirely
[QUOTE=Killuah;44469312]Rofl, 3 times as many women as men in their sample group.[/QUOTE] Every male vegetarian I know was doing it to impress a girl (1)
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;44469810]dodgy study, bad conclusion, typical bad facepunch reaction most vegetarians aren't vegetarians because "suck it i am healthier than you". sure if you bug them with questions they might give that as a reason, and they might be wrong, but who the fuck cares most people are vegetarian because they like animals and don't like most farming methods that all but the most expensive products use. might they be less healthy for forsaking meat? maybe a little bit. enough to seriously impact them in modern western society? no of course not. so stop caring so much about what other people do with their bodies. too much of facepunch has this "holier [cleverer] than thou" attitude and treats vegetarianism like they treat religion, or anything even remotely related to being a hippy or a 'hipster' with this "you're an idiot if you do something without scientific evidence" idea being vegetarian makes some people happy and makes them feel good about themselves because they have a world view that most facepunchers don't have. is that world view illogical? i dunno maybe but who fucking cares really[/QUOTE] I'm happy you've said that, the comments that pop up whenever vegetarianism is mentioned on Facepunch seem to border on actually hating vegetarians rather than just being jokes. It's also worth pointing out that saying vegetarianism is less healthy than meat-eaters is functionally not a very helpful statement, given the amount of variation in people's diets... if you eat better and exercise with [I]either[/I] diet you'll be healthier, more so than someone who doesn't. So maybe if this study is correct you can be more 'lazy' with a meat diet - you'd have to put more effort into being healthy if you're a vegetarian, but it clearly doesn't follow that all vegetarians are less healthy. And that is a maybe, I seriously doubt anyone here (myself included) has done any sort of thorough review of all the various studies around.
[video=youtube;Z4SqBJJH9Ec]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4SqBJJH9Ec[/video] Fat Mike used to be a vegetarian, tried it, couldn't stick to it but still, just shut up and eat whatever you want. Don't starve your body of what it needs and don't impose your choices on others.
[QUOTE=ichiman94;44469327]Meat is love, meat is life.[/QUOTE] You can't be a pure carnivore. You need vegetables and fruits for healthier immune system.
[QUOTE=BCell;44470165]You can't be a pure carnivore. You need vegetables and fruits for healthier immune system.[/QUOTE] You can, if you eat herbivores. Of course, I wouldn't recommend solely relying on meat that comes from cows who were fed shit for food and crammed into pens for mass slaughter, probably not the same levels of nutrition as opposed to free-range cattle with proper nutrition.
It's only one scientist, but it wouldn't surprise me "Omnivorous species most healthy when eating omnivorous diet" With that said though everybody always takes this as an opportunity for vegetarian bashing. To me it seems like more of an ethical issue than a dietary one, I don't blame somebody for not wanting to eat meat that is, by and large produced by an incredibly unethical industry. Think I might move over to buying meat from small ranchers and hunters because the conditions that your run of the mill supermarket meat is grown in is absolutely appalling.
[QUOTE]as characterized by intake of fruits, vegetables and whole-grain products[/QUOTE] that's not a vegetarian that's a vegan. conducting this study in a single country also has scarce reliability due to agricultural differences. it's obvious that people with a [B]vegan[/B] diet are going to be at least somewhat less healthy. that doesn't really need a study to back it up. but the only scientific studies related to the effects of simply omitting meat from your diet suggest that it can only benefit your health (provided the rest of your diet remains balanced). dumb thread, pointless study, bad article.
I grew up in a vegetarian family with my dad being the main reason. My dad's now in his early 50's and is the only one of his siblings to be in good shape and have no grey hair. The problem is that he's about as against meat and actual science as the people who are here are for it. Now that he's having health problems, he's been running the gamut of all the hokum aruvedtic 'medicine' out there, with the expected results. When each thing fails, he becomes convinced its something else that's wrong rather than admit that he's wrong. Aside from making me worried about his health now, this kind of thing makes living with him hard for myself as well, since its mainly because of him that I've only gotten proper treatment for my life long depression last year and he still constantly gives me crap for it. Now that he's gone through most of the snake oil out there he's began making his diet more and more restrictive. Now he's some sort of super radicalized vegan with him cutting out all gluten and all types of sugar as well as only eating non-acidic foods and I really dont know what to do now.
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