Police Respond To Wrong House And Shoot Its Homeowner when he refuses to put down gun
163 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Megadave;50489106]All I'm saying is they better be paying him compensation. It's fucked up but the cops need to acknowledge mistakes were made and pay his hospital bill at least.[/QUOTE]
He came at the cops with a gun and refused to drop it.
[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;50488641]They don't need to be Superman. They need to get the address right.[/QUOTE]
This can happen.
It even happens over here. When I was young, the police wanted to arrest a druggie in our block.
The problem was, they were standing before a door on another floor with a slighty similar name written on it, so they rang the doorbell, knocked, but nobody opened because it was an old lady living there.
Since they had a warrant, they kicked down the door.
The old lady had to live for a week with an open door :v:
[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;50488569]No, no, no. We train and pay these individuals to be perfect. We provide these individuals, these police officers, with firearms with the assurance that they won't make a mistake and critically injure an innocent person like this. We don't make a convent with our government which says "Okay, we'll allow THIS degree of negligence, or allow THIS many accidental deaths at the hands of law enforcement officials, in exchange for protection."
I don't hate police officers. I'm sure that the officers in question are quite remorseful about this entire situation. But I demand that the people who I've armed and given the power to either arrest or ultimately injure or kill someone never make a mistake, and when someone's wielding that amount of power, that's not an unreasonable demand to make. This isn't a Wendy's line cook fucking up my order of small fries - this is someone enforcing the law.[/QUOTE]
This is unrealistic. How could you even determine that someone is perfect beforehand? How do you tell the difference between a perfect police officer and one that will make a single mistake during their whole career for instance?
[QUOTE=matt000024;50489114]He came at the cops with a gun and refused to drop it.[/QUOTE]
And they were trespassing, doesn't matter how similar the addresses are it is still trespassing. Trespassing is unlawful, and cops do not have the right to break a law no matter how big of a mistake it is. Add that to shooting the homeowner in the neck, I'd say compensation is well in hand. I'm just glad the cops didn't decide to arrest him too and realized their mistake.
This is fucked plain and simple, but it is still a mistake that spiraled out of control. Compensation would at least show a little bit of remorse on behalf of the police.
[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;50488641]They don't need to be Superman. They need to get the address right.[/QUOTE]
Didn't you just say "we pay and train them to be perfect"?
wow, murphy's law in full effect, it seems. what an unfortunate series of events
Hopefully he will pull through as he is entitled to a few dollars now.
[QUOTE=Sableye;50489080]oooh this is like a catch 22 for conservatives.
on the one hand, castle doctrine, 2nd amendment and liberty, on the other hand, the cops are always right and to criticize them is to not support our police and is unamerican!
this is yet another consiquence of just militarizing everything these days. is it a smart idea to bring a gun to your door when the cops are knocking? of course not. is it a good idea for cops to go for shoot first? probably not either, though the article doesn't really make a good case for who's at fault here, i'm sort of going to lean on the cops side though because that guy had no reason not to cooperate, unless they just went nuts the instant he opened the door[/QUOTE]
Somebody, somewhere, is having a world-shattering identity crisis as a result of this article.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;50489859]And because the police were there illegally, they had no authority and he didn't have to drop it.[/QUOTE]
How was he supposed to know that? If a cop is at my house I'm gonna assume they have a damn good reason, not come out with a gun due to the slight chance there may be a mistake.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;50489859]And because the police were there illegally, they had no authority and he didn't have to drop it.[/QUOTE]
But from the police's perspective they are dealing with a murderer who just killed someone. You can't see from one but not the other if you're going to sling around judgement.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;50490029]How was he supposed to know? Gee I dunno, maybe he hasn't comitted any crimes and knows there's no logical reason for the police to be there? It's not hard, the police only show up for very specific reasons.. Unless it's this case and they just show up and don't bother confirming the house number, and then go on to shoot the owner for disobeying an illegal order.[/QUOTE]
The thing about police breaking the law is that trying to fight it as it happens is probably going to get you forcefully detained or shot, if police are telling you to drop what's in your hands or get out of the car you're going to have to do that until you get to call your lawyer or you're risking your own safety.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;50490067]I can if they aren't even going to bother checking the house number. Seriously, adrenaline is not an excuse to just blatently ignore information like that.[/QUOTE]
They could have easily had the wrong information. They got the wrong house and someone who they think is the suspect is pointing a fucking gun at them and won't drop it. You have to be stupid to hold a gun up at an officer and expect to not be shot when asked to drop it.
If the police go to the wrong house and someone keeps holding onto their gun the police should disarm themselves get on their knees and place their hands behind their head. GOSH!! Especially if the police think they're at the right house with a potential criminal, the person keeping the gun up is totally not suspicious at all!
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;50490029]How was he supposed to know? Gee I dunno, maybe he hasn't comitted any crimes and knows there's no logical reason for the police to be there? It's not hard, the police only show up for very specific reasons.. Unless it's this case and they just show up and don't bother confirming the house number, and then go on to shoot the owner for disobeying an illegal order.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, how was he supposed to know not to pull a gun on a police officer?
[QUOTE=uber.;50490217]Yeah, how was he supposed to know not to pull a gun on a police officer?[/QUOTE]
How was he supposed to know the fella kicking down his door at midnight for no reason was a police officer? Just because he was wearing a uniform you can buy in a store? Even though the guy did nothing wrong and he knew it, he was supposed to assume these were actual cops and had a good reason for being there? I'd have pulled a gun too.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;50490229]No matter what the situation is, don't fucking pull a gun on a cop and then not drop it when they tell you to.
Of course they're going to shoot you because you're a threat to their lives, no matter if they're there because of a mistaken adress or not. How hard is this to understand[/QUOTE]
If guys with guns kick in my door at midnight they are a more imminent threat to me than I am to them for defending myself. This guy isn't a clairvoyant. If he hasn't committed a crime then you can't expect him to be receptive to cops forcing their way into his home.
Could I have a source on the door kicking?
edit:
That never happened.
[url]http://www.myajc.com/news/news/crime-law/gbi-officers-respond-to-wrong-house-shoot-homeowne/nrcj8/[/url]
[QUOTE]Powell, according to his mother-in-law, Geraldine Huey, had gone outside to investigate a possible intruder.
“He went to see what the dogs were carrying on about,” said Huey, 85, who lives next door. “He (picked) up his gun and when he got to the gate, they shot him.”[/QUOTE]
Okay, so they were poking around on his property and shining lights in his windows, and they shot him when he went out to see what the ruckus was. How is that any better? Sorry - cops aren't perfect creatures incapable of making mistakes. This was a serious, unjustifiable fuckup. You can't wave off an innocent homeowner being killed by police who raided the wrong building entirely as "accidents happen, he shouldn't have had a gun"
I'd only pay you that if the guy either lowered/dropped his weapon or the cops didn't tell him to drop his weapon, before he was shot.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50490393]Okay, so they were poking around on his property and they shot him when he went out to see what the ruckus was. How is that any better? Sorry - cops aren't perfect creatures incapable of making mistakes. This was a serious, unjustifiable fuckup. You can't wave off an innocent homeowner being killed by police who raided the wrong building entirely as "accidents happen, he shouldn't have had a gun"[/QUOTE]
According to witness they didn't [B]raid[/B] anything. And they weren't porking around trying to get some dirt on the homeowner, they simply arrived at the wrong house. I'm not a fan of the police but the way you display them is disingenuous.
[QUOTE=Em See;50490426]I'd only pay you that if the guy either lowered/dropped his weapon or the cops didn't tell him to drop his weapon, before he was shot.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this. We didn't know what exactly happend, and thus, who to blame.
If my home is potentially being burglarized I'm not going to abandon my interest in defending it just because the potential burglar asked me to, lol. It also doesn't sound like he got much time to make a decision from what the witnesses said.
[editline]10th June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=uber.;50490431]According to witness they didn't [B]raid[/B] anything. And they weren't porking around trying to get some dirt on the homeowner, they simply arrived at the wrong house. I'm not a fan of the police but the way you display them is disingenuous.[/QUOTE]
A large number of my family members are or have been police officers. I don't hate cops but individual cops who don't do their jobs properly and cost innocent people their lives and try to justify it with "Well he had the [I]nerve[/I] to defend himself" can absolutely get fucked.
This is from your source:
[quote]Powell, according to his mother-in-law, Geraldine Huey, had gone outside to investigate a possible intruder.
“He went to see what the dogs were carrying on about,” said Huey, 85, who lives next door. “He (picked) up his gun and when he got to the gate, they shot him.”
She said she heard a “racket” at about 11:30 p.m. Tuesday. But when she couldn’t see any activity she went back to bed.[/quote]
So obviously they weren't being quiet or subtle. They murdered this guy, plain and simple. An Air Force veteran at that.
"If cops trespassing on your property threaten you with a firearm, they are not at fault for murdering you if you don't comply with their illegal order!"
great
fella I have no idea what your country is like but here, the police aren't above the law, they aren't supposed to trespass, threaten and murder people with impunity (and in my opinion that's a good thing lol). I sure hope whatever twisted idea of law enforcement you have never becomes the norm here.
Getting the wrong address is one thing but failing to recognize your error before you take somebody's life is another
[QUOTE=Sableye;50489080]oooh this is like a catch 22 for conservatives.
on the one hand, castle doctrine, 2nd amendment and liberty, on the other hand, the cops are always right and to criticize them is to not support our police and is unamerican!
this is yet another consiquence of just militarizing everything these days. is it a smart idea to bring a gun to your door when the cops are knocking? of course not. is it a good idea for cops to go for shoot first? probably not either, though the article doesn't really make a good case for who's at fault here, i'm sort of going to lean on the cops side though because that guy had no reason not to cooperate, unless they just went nuts the instant he opened the door[/QUOTE]
They didn't go for shoot first though. I don't know why you'd even say that unless you didn't read the article. They told him to drop it and he didn't comply.
Also, if you think that all conservatives- a group of people who want minimum government interference in peoples lives- universally love cops, you know very little.
And not mention, militarization of police is a nonissue that is used exclusively for scare mongering and making headlines.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;50490997]Have I said at any point the cops are above the law?
Allow me to repeat myself, they're going to kill you if they see you as a threat. It's up to you if you want to be a threat to them or not, but you're going to get shot if you want to play a smartass[/QUOTE]
If I go to someone's house shining a flashlight through their windows, and the justifiably nervous homeowner come out armed, you probably won't be defending me when I feel threatened and decide to shoot the homeowner on his own property. The homeowner has every right to be armed on his own property when there are unknown intruders so that's attempted murder, plain and simple.
But you seem to think that when the police do the same thing, it's completely justified, even though the police aren't carrying out a lawful investigation and nothing the homeowner is doing is against the law. You're giving them an exemption from the legal standard that lethal force is only justified to prevent imminent and credible threat of death or injury. If that isn't saying police are above the law, I don't know what is.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;50490997]Have I said at any point the cops are above the law?
Allow me to repeat myself, they're going to kill you if they see you as a threat. It's up to you if you want to be a threat to them or not, but you're going to get shot if you want to play a smartass[/QUOTE]
So it's OK for cops to shoot people who are defending themselves from illegal searches and threats, probably not even knowing that they're even cops - gotcha chief
Since in the US that's murder and murder is illegal and you are saying it's OK for them to murder people then you are saying that they are or should be above the law.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;50490871]If the police are telling you to put down your gun, you put your gun down or you die.
[B]Doesn't matter what you think you have the rights to do, the cops are trained to take down any threats and you're a threat when you're armed and do not comply to their orders.[/B][/QUOTE]
You are saying in pretty clear terms that police whims take precedence over individual rights and you ought to be shot if you don't comply with them. Do not try to backpedal.
That doesn't make it any less illegal or any less unacceptable that once again an innocent was shot and killed by police officers who were not doing their jobs properly. That doesn't make it OK to wave it off as, "oh you should've seen it coming." You might as well have said "she had it coming, did you see the way she was dressed?"
He wasn't in the wrong and didn't deserve to die. The cops were in the wrong.
So your [I]actual[/I] message is just another cut and dry "guns should be illegal" shitpost creatively masked behind a veil of "he shouldn't have agitated the cops [who were trespassing on his property at midnight and illegally brandishing weapons at him], they are wild animals and can bite at any moment"? Great, glad you got that out of your system. Do you have any other mental gymnastics to add?
I "pulled" it from your heavy focus on the victim having the gall to try and defend himself with a firearm and subsequent complaints about a country full of guns. I don't see how it makes a difference that he tried to defend himself. He was murdered by police officers operating illegally. Can you explain to me what his wrong was?
[editline]10th June 2016[/editline]
I mean do you really not see the issue with cops effectively randomly raiding properties and murdering the homeowners? He was entirely within his rights and they killed him.
I see a correlation between cops not paying attention and cops getting the wrong address, threatening the wrong person and killing an innocent for trying to defend himself in his confusion. But then again I tend to put blame on the killer, not the victim. No idea how it works in your head.
Well actually he died in the hospital so well actually he is dead and well actually he could've avoided getting shot if he wasn't alive in the first place but we try not to make a habit of blaming victims for being victimized.
[editline]10th June 2016[/editline]
[url]http://www.myajc.com/news/news/crime-law/gbi-officers-respond-to-wrong-house-shoot-homeowne/nrcj8/[/url]
[quote]A Stockbridge man shot by police who had been dispatched to the wrong house [B]died[/B] Thursday afternoon, a relative told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
Brother-in-law Clifton Worn said William David Powell, shot in the neck by an officer, [B]was pronounced dead[/B] around 4 p.m. at Atlanta Medical Center.[/quote]
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