Monster gets 422 years for 19-hour rape and torture of Columbia student
1,020 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22768363]No not even close at all[/QUOTE]
Uh, yeah. One is not having empathy for the man you just murdered and one is not being capable of having empathy for him.
[editline]01:11AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22768541]I don't think anyone on this earth believes that torturers are equal to you or me
Maybe they believe they should be allowed to live and all, but equal to you or me? No fucking way[/QUOTE]
"Equal" is a broad term. In that context, all people are equal.
Is he equal to me in ability to not rape and torture women? No. He's much worse at not raping and torturing than I am. But is he equal in worth as a human being? Yes.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22768541]I don't think anyone on this earth believes that torturers are equal to you or me
Maybe they believe they should be allowed to live and all, but equal to you or me? No fucking way[/QUOTE]
Once again, alchemy. Read up on it.
Turns out people believing things doesn't make them make sense.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22768562]Uh, yeah. One is not having empathy for the man you just murdered and one is not being capable of having empathy for him.
[editline]01:11AM[/editline]
"Equal" is a broad term. In that context, all people are equal.
Is he equal to me in ability to not rape and torture women? No. He's much worse at not raping and torturing than I am. But is he equal in worth as a human being? Yes.[/QUOTE]
So your saying a man who tortures a gouges out a young girl's eyes is equal to say, a grocery store clerk who has a husband and 2 kids?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22768592]Once again, alchemy. Read up on it.
Turns out people believing things doesn't make them make sense.[/QUOTE]
If popular opinion was always the truth, the world would be flat, women would always be subservient to men, blacks would be getting lynched in the trees, and this glowing box we're arguing on would be possible only through witchcraft
[QUOTE=Dole;22768560]The man was accused of torturing and raping a girl. He gouged her damn eyes out for christ's sake.
I accuse him, along with others, of being a monster.
He sure as hell did not act like a human. Humans don't regularly go around raping and torturing (Except vikings, but everyone loves them) young girls.
I will look into that movie though.[/QUOTE]
He doesn't act like you or me, no. He obviously acted like a human, as he is human.
What you must understand, is that this guy is obviously not all there. People who do this kind of shit are fucked up mentally. That's the topic that M covers, which is why you should watch it.
[QUOTE=Dole;22768595]So your saying a man who tortures a gouges out a young girl's eyes is equal to say, a grocery store clerk who has a husband and 2 kids?[/QUOTE]
In overall worth as a human being? Yes. It's not mine or anybody's place to arbitrarily decide how much a person is "worth". We're not the morality police
[QUOTE=Dole;22768595]So your saying a man who tortures a gouges out a young girl's eyes is equal to say, a grocery store clerk who has a husband and 2 kids?[/QUOTE]
Yes.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22768592]Once again, alchemy. Read up on it.
Turns out people believing things doesn't make them make sense.[/QUOTE]
People used to believe the sun revolved around the earth.
They also used to believe the earth was flat.
Thats pretty old stuff now.
I don't think alchemy is a common practice today.
[QUOTE=Dole;22768619]People used to believe the sun revolved around the earth.
They also used to believe the earth was flat.
Thats pretty old stuff now.
I don't think alchemy is a common practice today.[/QUOTE]
You don't get my point at all do you?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22768617]Yes.[/QUOTE]
I have lost all faith for everyone in this thread.
[editline]06:15AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22768615]In overall worth as a human being? Yes. It's not mine or anybody's place to arbitrarily decide how much a person is "worth". We're not the morality police[/QUOTE]
More faith lost.
Although I do somewhat agree on the whos place it is to decide how much a person is worth part.
[QUOTE=Dole;22768624]I have lost all faith for everyone in this thread.
[editline]06:15AM[/editline]
More faith lost.[/QUOTE]
Why? Because we don't want to kill more people?
Because we think human dignity should be beyond petty vengeance fetishes?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22768621]You don't get my point at all do you?[/QUOTE]
Honestly? No, not particularly.
[QUOTE=Dole;22768624]
More faith lost.
Although I do somewhat agree on the whos place it is to decide how much a person is worth part.[/QUOTE]
So you agree that it's not our place to decide another person's worth, BUT for this one teensy little time it's okay to do so?
You agree with us, you just don't want to say so and have to argue with the hyperconservative moralcops
[QUOTE=Dole;22768649]Honestly? No, not particularly.[/QUOTE]
My point is that belief does not make something so. Do you understand that?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22768646]Why? Because we don't want to kill more people?
Because we think human dignity should be beyond petty vengeance fetishes?[/QUOTE]
The man lost any rights to dignity when he gouged out the girl's eyes.
[QUOTE=Dole;22768663]The man lost any rights to dignity when he gouged out the girl's eyes.[/QUOTE]
Why? Who is in any place to decide such a thing?
[QUOTE=Dole;22768663]The man lost any rights to dignity when he gouged out the girl's eyes.[/QUOTE]
That's vengeance and you're arbitrarily deciding his worth again
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22768660]My point is that belief does not make something so. Do you understand that?[/QUOTE]
I understood that from the beginning, and as with my examples, they believed something, and it was false. You started to confuse me when you were bringing up alchemy again.
[QUOTE=Dole;22768677]I understood that from the beginning, and as with my examples, they believed something, and it was false. You started to confuse me when you were bringing up alchemy again.[/QUOTE]
Because I was explaining to him that, even if everyone in the world were to agree with him, you still wouldn't be able to decide his worth as a human being.
You're refusing to look at the situation from his perspective. You're reverting to animalistic revenge urges.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22768671]That's vengeance and you're arbitrarily deciding his worth again[/QUOTE]
I don't understand how thats vengeance.
I'm not talking about someone going up to him and saying "YOU DONT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DIGNITY."
He lost the right as a person, I don't even see the man as human. Thats why I have been mostly referring to him as "monster"
[QUOTE=Dole;22768701]I don't understand how thats vengeance.
[b]I'm not talking about someone going up to him and saying "YOU DONT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DIGNITY."[/b]
[highlight]He lost the right as a person[/highlight], I don't even see the man as human. Thats why I have been mostly referring to him as "monster"[/QUOTE]
Red part is doing exactly what is outlined in the bold part, the only difference is that you're stating the red part as fact instead of opinion.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22768694]Because I was explaining to him that, even if everyone in the world were to agree with him, you still wouldn't be able to decide his worth as a human being.
You're refusing to look at the situation from his perspective. You're reverting to animalistic revenge urges.[/QUOTE]
I see his situation. I tried thinking like he must have been. But how can he think like that and be normal? How can a normal person do something so horrible like that?
He had to have been sick, insane, crazy, possessed, whatever you want to call it.
[QUOTE=Dole;22768701]I don't understand how thats vengeance.
I'm not talking about someone going up to him and saying "YOU DONT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DIGNITY."
He lost the right as a person, I don't even see the man as human. Thats why I have been mostly referring to him as "monster"[/QUOTE]
Which is precisely our point. You're reverting to vengeful instincts.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22768615]In overall worth as a human being? Yes. It's not mine or anybody's place to arbitrarily decide how much a person is "worth". We're not the morality police[/QUOTE]
Oh but we are indeed! We are all that can judge, we are all that can see what is wrong and what is right. If we cannot judge, no one, or rather, NOTHING can.
[QUOTE=Dole;22768720]He had to have been sick, insane, crazy, possessed, whatever you want to call it.[/QUOTE]
Yes.
But none of those things make you subhuman.
Except for possession but I'm not going to touch the physics of that with a barge pole
[QUOTE=Dole;22768720]I see his situation. I tried thinking like he must have been. But how can he think like that and be normal? How can a normal person do something so horrible like that?
He had to have been sick, insane, crazy, possessed, whatever you want to call it.[/QUOTE]
He isn't normal. He's completely and utterly insane.
You do not decide to be completely and utterly insane. And so why should be be punished for that? Do we treat the retarded like animals because they don't think on the level we do?
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22768726]If we cannot judge, no one, or rather, NOTHING can.[/QUOTE]
Now you've got it.
Any judgments we make are made on petty barbaric instincts.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22768726]Oh but we are indeed! We are all that can judge, we are all that can see what is wrong and what is right. If we cannot judge, no one, or rather, NOTHING can.[/QUOTE]
Precisely. Nothing can.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22768716]Red part is doing exactly what is outlined in the bold part, the only difference is that you're stating the red part as fact instead of opinion.[/QUOTE]
Do I have to keep saying this? I'm talking mentally. I say, hes crazy. For someone to be that crazy, he cant have any idea what dignity is. Whats right or wrong. Or what being a person really is.
[editline]06:26AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22768732]Yes.
But none of those things make you subhuman.
Except for possession but I'm not going to touch the physics of that with a barge pole[/QUOTE]
I dont believe he was possessed, just throwing out some examples ya' know?
[QUOTE=Dole;22768744]For someone to be that crazy, he cant have any idea what dignity is. Whats right or wrong. Or what being a person really is.[/QUOTE]
So because he doesn't know that he has rights we shouldn't grant him any?
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.