• Nazi goes on trial for being an accessory to the murder of at least 300,000 Jews.
    147 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Explosions;47573877]That's what the trial's for.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Hobo4President;47573941]Can you guys stop saying this, that's what the trial is meant find out.[/QUOTE] No, that's what the investigation [I]before[/I] the trial is for.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;47574579]No, that's what the investigation [I]before[/I] the trial is for.[/QUOTE] How is "prove he was an accessory to murder (innocent until proven guilty)" not what the trial is for? They think they have enough evidence to convict him for crimes which is why it is going to trial. The courts are going to decide whether that evidence proves he is guilty or innocent.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;47573129]Pray tell, what is 'legitimate rule of law' in a defeated and occupied country?[/QUOTE] What I mean is that the trial was a sham and a complete misuse of justice. Only one side was leveled with the majority of crimes, when the other was equally as guilty (see: the forced labor camps, unrestricted u-boats, the invasion on Poland, etc.). Additionally, court documents were forged or lied about and the standard of proof was very very low. Finally, while there isn't much rule of law in an occupied nation, there were no laws broken at the time they were committed in Germany prior during the war. The laws were applied retroactively, which is one of the biggest issues with it.
I'm of the opinion that if someone murders someone, doesn't get caught and then 60 years later after living a life free of any further crimes while being a model citizen, then although they are still guilty of the crime they committed, it's no longer in the public interest to imprison them. Prison is more than vengeance, it should also be about rehabilitation and protecting innocent people from people who have been demonstrated to be a danger. When the latter are no longer a concern and all this time has passed, it's honestly just a waste of money and resources putting someone away. Not that this guy murdered anyone. If G_d's chosen are so desperate to have someone convicted for aiding the Nazi regime, then just give him a suspended sentence so they can have their vindication and then we can go back to important matters.
I just don't get it how people still don't understand the purpose of these trials. You know these guys are not going to get any time right? This is not about punishment. The worst they will do to him will be saying "We have determined that *insert name* is guilty of being an accessory to the murder of at least 300,000 Jews. Now go home. Case closed." This is about putting in history books who took part in a fucking genocide.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;47576659]I just don't get it how people still don't understand the purpose of these trials. You know these guys are not going to get any time right? This is not about punishment. The worst they will do to him will be saying "We have determined that *insert name* is guilty of being an accessory to the murder of at least 300,000 Jews. Now go home. Case closed." This is about putting in history books who took part in a fucking genocide.[/QUOTE] Sounds like a very stupid way to do it. Do you really need a trial if you're not going to charge the guilty person? You don't need a trial to put stuff in history books.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;47576861]Sounds like a very stupid way to do it. Do you really need a trial if you're not going to charge the guilty person? You don't need a trial to put stuff in history books.[/QUOTE] So you think it would be a better idea to just label the man a nazi mass murderer based on a found document that has his signature/name without him being able to defend himself? Which would probably end up with the man suing the people claiming he's a nazi mass murderer, which would result in, guess what, [I]a trial[/I]? Not to mention that on that trial he would be trying to prove he's innocent. Which is completely backwards? So instead of that whole mess there's a trial trying to prove he's guilty where he can defend himself and his good name. What's the not-very-stupid way of doing it according to you?
I don't see the point in prosecuting soldiers who didn't go out of their way to cause more suffering than they were ordered. I mean what the fuck were they supposed to do, turn against the military? In Nazi Germany? A heroic ideal sure, but how feasible is that?
isn't living a long, full life, after being a cog in the machine that took away millions PUNISHMENT ENOUGH? [editline]22nd April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=spazthemax;47577140]I don't see the point in prosecuting soldiers who didn't go out of their way to cause more suffering than they were ordered. I mean what the fuck were they supposed to do, turn against the military? In Nazi Germany? A heroic ideal sure, but how feasible is that?[/QUOTE] i think this is heart of the argument for those of you who are like, 'but being old sucks enough already!!" like, if you took part in a genocide, you would still hope that given enough time nothing bad would come of it.
[QUOTE=catbarf;47569289]The vast majority of these cases don't end in them getting jail time, it ends in the court saying 'Just so everyone knows, he's guilty, but due to extenuating circumstances we won't punish him'. Part of interpreting law is setting legal precedent, the last lines in the article point this out: The law must apply equally to all citizens when wrongdoing is suspected. You don't get to evade charges just because you're old. Instead it's up to the judge to determine if circumstances around the trial justify leniency in sentencing. This is Germany we're talking about. Establishing culpability for the crimes of the Nazi regime, even if no substantial punishment is warranted, is a big deal to them.[/QUOTE] Statuette of limitations? I know that's an American thing, but still doesn't Germany have anything even close to that?
[QUOTE=Reshy;47577542]Statuette of limitations? I know that's an American thing, but still doesn't Germany have anything even close to that?[/QUOTE] As a legal principle, yes, on genocide, no.
[QUOTE=GunFox;47569307]A crime? In what jurisdiction? Was perfectly legal in Germany. Trials like this are a fucking sham. No chain of custody, no jursidictional authority. Whether or not the guy was/is a disgusting human being, jurisdiction matters. If you want revenge on this guy, and make no mistake that is what this is, then just shoot him. Don't create some fake trial just so you can throw him in prison where he will die almost immediately so you can feel good about yourself.[/QUOTE] 300,000 Jews.
Don't worry guys, I raped and murdered those thirteen 9-year-old girls, like, 70 years ago! Let it go, BRO!
I guess you've never heard of a very real thing called "Statute of limitations".
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47580497]I guess you've never heard of a very real thing called "Statute of limitations".[/QUOTE] In most places murder has no statute of limitations.
[QUOTE=Hobo4President;47580509]In most places murder has no statute of limitations.[/QUOTE] yeah, your point?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47580518]yeah, your point?[/QUOTE] Then why did you even bring it up?
[QUOTE=Hobo4President;47580525]Then why did you even bring it up?[/QUOTE] Because he didn't say murder. Because it's still a thing that actually exist.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47580533]Because he didn't say murder. Because it's still a thing that actually exist.[/QUOTE] Were you responding to geel9? because he did say murder...
Ah fuck I'm too tired I guess. My bad. It still does exist and some states do have it apply to murder though. Just checked.
I kind of wonder if in some way he wants to be prosecuted because of the tremendous guilt he must feel. He actually has also told stories about the twisted stuff that happened there.
Stuff like this is hard in the moral gray area. Millions of Germans participate in the industrial murder of millions more. But now they're Grandpa.
[QUOTE=cqbcat;47588941]Stuff like this is hard in the moral gray area. Millions of Germans participate in the industrial murder of millions more. But now they're Grandpa.[/QUOTE] Most of them are dead though.
He counted stolen money and is facing 15 years in prison. Karl Dönitz got sentenced 10 years in prison. Let it sink in
ye put that 93 year old threat to society in jail for killing all those jews in a war many years ago you may never know when he'll do it again people never change
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