• "Transsexuals should cut it out"
    348 replies, posted
[QUOTE=mixshifter;39209770]I've talked with and helped many transexuals, and I found the post to quite funny.[/QUOTE] I dunno, maybe it would have been funny or at least unremarkable elsewhere. But it feels ridiculously inappropriate to lampoon the article's author and then turn around and laugh at a joke cut from the same cloth. It's hypocritical.
[QUOTE=Lurke;39209634]i think that whole tumblr with the cis stuff is just satire.[/QUOTE] Cis and trans are legitimate terms to describe a person's gender identity. If I remember correctly they come from chemistry where they are used to identify the orientation of compounds that could have the same chemical formula but different rotations on certain bonds, so the appropriation of them is quite fitting actually. They're used instead of people using words like 'normal' so people aren't excluded or cast out. [editline]14th January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=mixshifter;39210119]Transgenders are just regular people, not everyone gets insulted by jokes that are directed towards their kind. I'm not trying to justify the joke, but it's not the end of the world either. If a transgender is capable of taking on their family and friends, who may me judgmental, they can take a few internet jokes, surely?[/QUOTE] That's a terrible argument. "They've probably experienced worse so it's ok to make jokes."
[QUOTE=halflife_123;39210301]Cis and trans are legitimate terms to describe a person's gender identity. If I remember correctly they come from chemistry where they are used to identify the orientation of compounds that could have the same chemical formula but different rotations on certain bonds, so the appropriation of them is quite fitting actually.[/QUOTE] More likely it could just be from the Latin roots cis- and trans-, which mean "same" and "across" pretty much. I doubt that it was really made on the basis of that reasoning but I have no idea about the history of the movement.
[QUOTE=kanesenpai~;39209540]someone should link that tumblr with all the cis scum stuff I remember reading one where someone said their gender fluctuates through the week[/QUOTE] This it?: [url]http://genderfluidity.tumblr.com/[/url]
[QUOTE=halflife_123;39210301]That's a terrible argument. "They've probably experienced worse so it's ok to make jokes."[/QUOTE] That's not what I'm saying at all. But I guess I can't really find a way to explain it properly, I've re-written this post several times trying to think of a way, sorry.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;39206382]i'd say nice try, but that's not even remotely comical. (edit: i mean you're basically doing the same thing as the article. it's just as dumb and insensitive.)[/QUOTE] i thought it was pretty funny
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;39210368]More likely it could just be from the Latin roots cis- and trans-, which mean "same" and "across" pretty much. I doubt that it was really made on the basis of that reasoning but I have no idea about the history of the movement.[/QUOTE] Ah that is more likely, my bad. The point I was making was that they weren't terms that were randomly made up for satire or to be pretentious.
[quote] I nevertheless felt indignant that a woman of such style and substance should be driven from her chosen mode of time-wasting by a bunch of dicks in chicks' clothing.[/quote] Wow this is so fucking disrespectful
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;39210368]More likely it could just be from the Latin roots cis- and trans-, which mean "same" and "across" pretty much. I doubt that it was really made on the basis of that reasoning but I have no idea about the history of the movement.[/QUOTE] it is exactly that, and it makes pretty much perfect sense when you think about it. it's weird that the prefix 'cis' is so much rarer than 'trans'. the only place I've come across it outside of gender discussions is in chemistry, where you have cis-trans stereoisomerism: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Isomerism.png[/img] notice how the CH3 groups are on the same side in the cis variant, and are on opposite sides in the trans isomer. now imagine the 'sides' are male and female, and the CH3 groups are respectively gender and biological sex, and it's roughly the same situation. yes [editline]14th January 2013[/editline] oh, the guy you were replying to said this already. carry on
[QUOTE=halflife_123;39210301]That's a terrible argument. "They've probably experienced worse so it's ok to make jokes."[/QUOTE] Actually his argument was more "it's just a joke, don't take it so seriously."
It's this kind of hatred that's kept me from even starting the process, in fear of such persecution. Almost like some kind of modern day witch-hunt or something.
[QUOTE=xxfalconxx;39210541]It's this kind of hatred that's kept me from even starting the process, in fear of such persecution. Almost like some kind of modern day witch-hunt or something.[/QUOTE] A lot of people feel that way.
[QUOTE=Paramud;39210530]Actually his argument was more "it's just a joke, don't take it so seriously."[/QUOTE] The end of his post is what summed up his position for me: [quote]If a transgender is capable of taking on their family and friends, who may me judgmental, they can take a few internet jokes, surely?[/quote] That suggests that it's ok to make jokes about it because they have probably faced worse emotional torment from a family that doesn't accept them or doesn't understand. At least that's the way I interpreted it anyway. If I were to comment on it from the way you perceived the comment, well... It's easy to say "don't take it seriously" when you are the one making the joke and especially if you haven't experienced what they have.
[QUOTE=halflife_123;39210706]The end of his post is what summed up his position for me: That suggests that it's ok to make jokes about it because they have probably faced worse emotional torment from a family that doesn't accept them or doesn't understand. At least that's the way I interpreted it anyway.[/quote] [QUOTE=mixshifter;39210423]That's not what I'm saying at all. But I guess I can't really find a way to explain it properly, I've re-written this post several times trying to think of a way, sorry.[/QUOTE] Means he probably didn't think the argument through as much as you have. Or that he isn't intelligent to form the argument well enough. Either way, it leaves his argument open for reinterpretation. [quote]If I were to comment on it from the way you perceived the comment, well... It's easy to say "don't take it seriously" when you are the one making the joke and especially if you haven't experienced what they have.[/QUOTE] I like how often people make this argument without asking if the person is or isn't.
[QUOTE=mixshifter;39210119]Transgenders are just regular people, not everyone gets insulted by jokes that are directed towards their kind. I'm not trying to justify the joke, but it's not the end of the world either. If a transgender is capable of taking on their family and friends, who may me judgmental, they can take a few internet jokes, surely?[/QUOTE] I don't think you're really as much of an ally as you claim to be. You just said "a transgender" for fuck's sake. "Blacks are regular people. If a black is capable of taking on their friends who may be judgmental, surely they can take a few internet jokes?"
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39210795]I don't think you're really as much of an ally as you claim to be. You just said "a transgender" for fuck's sake.[/QUOTE] That doesn't mean he was objectifying them. How else would he refer to one?
Whats wrong with calling them black? Its not a derogatory term, unlike "nigger" for example.
[QUOTE=Paramud;39210817]That doesn't mean he was objectifying them. How else would he refer to one?[/QUOTE] Generally people like to be called people and not things, in my experience "transgender person" is polite, but you'd have better luck asking someone who actually is transgender [editline]13th January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=zombojoe;39210842]Whats wrong with calling them black? Its not a derogatory term, unlike "nigger" for example.[/QUOTE] There is a huge difference in tone between "a black person" and "a black". It's not a slur but it's still implying that their race is more important than their personhood
[QUOTE=Paramud;39210817]That doesn't mean he was objectifying them. How else would he refer to one?[/QUOTE] I think he means the fact that he said "a transgender" instead of a "transgender person." I'm sure it was just a mistake. [editline]l[/editline] Ninja'd
[QUOTE=zombojoe;39210842]Whats wrong with calling them black? Its not a derogatory term, unlike "nigger" for example.[/QUOTE] Well, referring them to "blacks" is really pushing it. Used as an adjective is fine, you're just describing their ethnicity. But, as a noun...
[QUOTE='[Slendy v2.0];39210882']I think he means the fact that he said "a transgender" instead of a "transgender person." I'm sure it was just a mistake.[/QUOTE] He did it multiple times
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39210861]Generally people like to be called people and not things, in my experience "transgender person" is polite[/QUOTE] It's on par with describing someone as "a man" or "a janitor." It's not like he referred to one as "it." [editline]oh hamburgers[/editline] Actually, now that I think about it, never mind. [QUOTE=Paramud;39210890]Well, referring them to "blacks" is really pushing it. Used as an adjective is fine, you're just describing their ethnicity. But, as a noun...[/QUOTE] Though I don't think he meant it intentionally.
I still don't see how its a problem. Its not demeaning in any way.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39210893]He did it multiple times[/QUOTE] Perhaps he didn't think about it when he said it? I doubt he meant to intentionally demean transgendered folk, but then again I can't speak for someone else's words.
[QUOTE=zombojoe;39210906]I still don't see how its a problem. Its not demeaning in any way.[/QUOTE] It was pointed out above. If you call someone "A black" "A gay" or "A X" it usually sounds demeaning to the person. Just call them transgender people.
[QUOTE=Paramud;39210905]It's on par with describing someone as "a man" or "a janitor." It's not like he referred to one as "it."[/QUOTE] When have you ever heard someone referred to solely by occupation when it wasn't a specific person whose identity has already been established? "This is my friend Bob, he's a janitor" is fine, "This is janitor" wouldn't be. [editline]13th January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE='[Slendy v2.0];39210915']Perhaps he didn't think about it when he said it? I doubt he meant to intentionally demean transgendered folk, but then again I can't speak for someone else's words.[/QUOTE] If he didn't mean to say it he can post that himself, then I'd apologize for being presumptuous, then we'd all get on with our day
its kind of like referring to transgender people as some alien race or something like that "oh you're a human and you're a transgender" get it?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39210929]When have you ever heard someone referred to solely by occupation when it wasn't a specific person whose identity has already been established? "This is my friend Bob, he's a janitor" is fine, "This is janitor" wouldn't be.[/QUOTE] Probably would've been a more effective counterpoint to just quote the post I had made just before that. It seems to me like just a simple mistake on his part. He has admitted to having difficulty wording his argument, after all.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;39210368]More likely it could just be from the Latin roots cis- and trans-, which mean "same" and "across" pretty much. I doubt that it was really made on the basis of that reasoning but I have no idea about the history of the movement.[/QUOTE] Sounds v reasonable don't see why you would doubt it. They are good descriptive non-offensive terms, the writer of the original article mustn't have known this origin hence her idiotic response to it.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39210795]I don't think you're really as much of an ally as you claim to be. You just said "a transgender" for fuck's sake.[/QUOTE] I'm dating a transexual, I have literally no desire to objectify them in any way. I was just referring to them as what they're called. I respect transexuals for willingly going through what they have to go through in order to accomplish the things they want. [editline]14th January 2013[/editline] I understand why you thought that, though. I didn't word that correctly, clearly.
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