[QUOTE=mixshifter;39211454]I'm dating a transexual, I have literally no desire to objectify them in any way. I was just referring to them as what they're called. I respect transexuals for willingly going through what they have to go through in order to accomplish the things they want.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough. I'm more or less certain now that you weren't being intentionally rude or anything like that.
But surely you can see why it might come across that way
Yes, I do. I apologize for the way I worded it.
[QUOTE=harryh11;39211046]Sounds v reasonable don't see why you would doubt it. They are good descriptive non-offensive terms, the writer of the original article mustn't have known this origin hence her idiotic response to it.[/QUOTE]
The simple etymological roots provided a clear enough origin for me, this extension to a chemical analogue seems more like a connection made after-the-fact. Again I don't know anything about the history of the term so whatever.
[QUOTE=zombojoe;39210906]I still don't see how its a problem. Its not demeaning in any way.[/QUOTE]
okay imagine if you were talking about a gay person and said "oh he's a gay."
sounds okay still?
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;39211531]The simple etymological roots provided a clear enough origin for me, this extension to a chemical analogue seems more like a connection made after-the-fact. Again I don't know anything about the history of the term so whatever.[/QUOTE]
Oh right I thought you said something else.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;39212216]okay imagine if you were talking about a gay person and said "oh he's a gay."
sounds okay still?[/QUOTE]
yeah, using an indefinite article doesn't change the fact he's gay
Guys, maybe quit bickering about semantics, and one botched joke, and get back to the original topic?
[quote]
Shims, shemales, whatever you're calling yourselves these days – don't threaten or bully us lowly natural-born women, I warn you. We may not have as many lovely big swinging Phds as you, but we've experienced a lifetime of PMT and sexual harassment and many of us are now staring HRT and the menopause straight in the face – and still not flinching. Trust me, you ain't seen nothing yet. You really won't like us when we're angry.[/quote]
hello yes even if you're legally considered a womanyou're not allowed to feel oppressed because you weren't born with a bergina!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lol ur not allowd 2 be oppressed because youre not part of X Y Z group!!!!!!! suck it up!!!!! xD!!!!!!!!!!
[editline]14th January 2013[/editline]
getting kind of sick of this whole oppression arms-race that seems to be flooding [del]the[/del] [del]internet[/del] tumblr
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting/Spamming even if ironic is still shitposting" - Starpluck))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39210795]I don't think you're really as much of an ally as you claim to be.
You just said "a transgender" for fuck's sake.
"Blacks are regular people. If a black is capable of taking on their friends who may be judgmental, surely they can take a few internet jokes?"[/QUOTE]
You can support a cause while not having English as your first language. I didn't have any idea that it was in any way offensive; to me, it sounds the same as saying a transsexual, and while I may be wrong, I'm pretty certain it's a completely neutral term. I think you're looking too much into it.
Funny how unconsciously as homosexuality gets globally more accepted the people who used to spit on it immediately started to look after another, easier target to keep shitting on something, regardless of what it could be.
Maybe after a while we will go full circle and people will start being angry at black people again.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;39213526]Funny how unconsciously as homosexuality gets globally more accepted the people who used to spit on it immediately started to look after another, easier target to keep shitting on something, regardless of what it could be.
Maybe after a while we will go full circle and people will start being angry at black people again.[/QUOTE]
Soon people who are completely happy with themselves and their lives are the target.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;39212216]okay imagine if you were talking about a gay person and said "oh he's a gay."
sounds okay still?[/QUOTE]
I don't see anything wrong with that. Do people get offended by that?
[QUOTE=zombojoe;39213582]I don't see anything wrong with that. Do people get offended by that?[/QUOTE]
The wonders of vocabulary. Virtually every word that exists will be found offensive by someone, somewhere.
What's the most fun about vocabulary is that "gay person", "transgender person" or "black person" will in the end turn into just "gay", "transgender" or "black" (maintaining the semantics "black person" and so on) if there would be need to refer to people's alignment. The wonders of language self-optimizing mechanism.
I'd rather there wouldn't be any need to point such things out. Perhaps I wouldn't understand many things, one of them being "why people need to know who's other people sleep with".
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39213525]You can support a cause while not having English as your first language. I didn't have any idea that it was in any way offensive; to me, [b]it sounds the same as saying a transsexual[/b], and while I may be wrong, I'm pretty certain it's a completely neutral term. I think you're looking too much into it.[/QUOTE]
It is
That's the problematic bit
There is no language barrier when it comes to the fact that casually dismissing someone's personhood in favour of a label, especially a label that is so often used as an insult or negative quality by bigots, is rude.
[editline]14th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=zombojoe;39213582]I don't see anything wrong with that.[/QUOTE]
That's because you're just a straight
The straights don't really seem to know anything
(See how ridiculous, rude, and dismissive that sounds)
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39213858]That's because you're just a straight
The straights don't really seem to know anything
(See how ridiculous, rude, and dismissive that sounds)[/QUOTE]
Not particularly, but even if you had worded it in an offensive way, that wasn't how the original example was. A more accurate comparison would be describing someone with "oh, he's a straight."
Which would be strange for your argument, because if you simply swapped the term straight with heterosexual, you probably wouldn't be complaining about it.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;39206549]sigh.
i really fucking hate people.
i think so? its written rather poorly.
and if she is a feminists then ugh. im tired of "feminists" who only care about ciswomen ffs.[/QUOTE]
if she had said bisexuals would that make it okay
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;39213526]Funny how unconsciously as homosexuality gets globally more accepted the people who used to spit on it immediately started to look after another, easier target to keep shitting on something, regardless of what it could be.
Maybe after a while we will go full circle and people will start being angry at black people again.[/QUOTE]
No, trans people are just in the spotlight now that homosexuals seem to have passed the tipping point of codified acceptance. It's not as if more people are coming to dislike them now, it's just that people who have an irrational dislike for things they don't understand, (like a way of thinking about gender that goes beyond primary school learning) now have an opportunity to discuss their very limited understanding of matters.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39213858]It is
That's the problematic bit
There is no language barrier when it comes to the fact that casually dismissing someone's personhood in favour of a label, especially a label that is so often used as an insult or negative quality by bigots, is rude.
[editline]14th January 2013[/editline]
That's because you're just a straight
The straights don't really seem to know anything
(See how ridiculous, rude, and dismissive that sounds)[/QUOTE]
Is it wrong to say "He's gay"? It's the same as saying someone's straight. And if putting people in groups is "labeling" what should I be calling them? Saying "cis" is labeling people as well in that regard.
And there's a difference between saying "x is dumb" and saying "x is straight/gay/transsexual/whatever". One of them is offensive, the other is not.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39214118]Is it wrong to say "He's gay"? It's the same as saying someone's straight. And if putting people in groups is "labeling" what should I be calling them? Saying "cis" is labeling people as well in that regard.
And there's a difference between saying "x is dumb" and saying "x is straight/gay/transsexual/whatever". One of them is offensive, the other is not.[/QUOTE]
"He is gay" is a totally different tone from "he is a gay" so there's no problem with it generally
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39214135]"He is gay" is a totally different tone from "he is a gay" so there's no problem with it generally[/QUOTE]
"He's a homosexual" - yeah, there's a different vibe, but I'd definitely say that you're going out on limb claiming someone is not supporting a group because of the way something's worded. I just noticed that he actually responded to you, and it seems like we agree. Let's just keep it at that note.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;39206339][URL="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/13/julie-burchill-suzanne-moore-transsexuals"]Source[/URL]
i can't.
i just can't. how the fuck did this get published.[/QUOTE]
Why not? It's an opinion piece about a person's experience with the more militants parts of the tran community and a lot of what is mentioned can actually be seen on the internet at large. Keep in mind, it's written by someone who is sufficiently pissed of at the community for the way, said community acted towards someone she knows. Over, if we're to believe the text a pretty normal pop-culture comment.
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;39207578]Haven't I seen you agreeing with transphobic tards in other threads?[/QUOTE]
Oh, NOW I think I remember what you were referring to. Probably in that thread about LGB having dropped the T, and I was confused why Trans was part of the abbreviation in the first place considering the other 3 are sexualities while trans is identity.
I meant no harm in this, or to imply that Trans do not deserve the same rights as LGB, only that I'm confused why trans is a separate group from LGB when you can be trans and still lesbian, gay, and bisexual. I have a very technical mindset and often reason more from a logic before emotion kind of standpoint. So when I see LGBT, I see Sexuality/Sexuality/Sexuality/Identity, and I get confused. Please understand that I don't dislike transexuals or think they're any less worth than anyone else, but what I think is right is always the thing that seems the most logical to me, even if I disagree that it should be that way.
[QUOTE=Simski;39214495]Oh, NOW I think I remember what you were referring to. Probably in that thread about LGB having dropped the T, and I was confused why Trans was part of the abbreviation in the first place considering the other 3 are sexualities while trans is identity.
I meant no harm in this, or to imply that Trans do not deserve the same rights as LGB, only that I'm confused why trans is a separate group from LGB when you can be trans and still lesbian, gay, and bisexual. I have a very technical mindset and often reason more from a logic before emotion kind of standpoint. So when I see LGBT, I see Sexuality/Sexuality/Sexuality/Identity, and I get confused. Please understand that I don't dislike transexuals or think they're any less worth than anyone else, but what I think is right is always the thing that seems the most logical to me, even if I don't agree that it should be that way.[/QUOTE]
IIRC you also started agreeing with Mobrockers about something to do with the T in LGBT which is almost never a good idea
I guess I've also got some social stigma about me for my verbal battles with sanius' crew and like the case with LGBT argument thread, having an unpopular opinion due to logic before emotion. They really do have a terrible tendency of putting a lot of focus on demonizing and mocking their opposition often with exaggerated claims and re-interpretations of arguments rather than focus on actually trying to teach someone how and why their opinion is wrong though, which is really my biggest reason for sometimes flipping the fuck out when trying to reason with them.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39213858]It is
That's the problematic bit
There is no language barrier when it comes to the fact that casually dismissing someone's personhood in favour of a label, especially a label that is so often used as an insult or negative quality by bigots, is rude.
[editline]14th January 2013[/editline]
That's because you're just a straight
The straights don't really seem to know anything
(See how ridiculous, rude, and dismissive that sounds)[/QUOTE]
Insults and generalisations aside,
Doesn't sound dismissive and rude at all (to me). I know you're referring to a human being. I don't think there's any suggestion there that you think (consciously or unconsciously) of 'straights' as anything other than a human being. I would assume that you removed person/people because to type it out every time youre referring to a straight person would just be tedious
[editline]14th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=wraithcat;39214248]Why not? It's an opinion piece about a person's experience with the more militants parts of the tran community and a lot of what is mentioned can actually be seen on the internet at large. Keep in mind, it's written by someone who is sufficiently pissed of at the community for the way, said community acted towards someone she knows. Over, if we're to believe the text a pretty normal pop-culture comment.[/QUOTE]
That would be fine if the article hadn't made some seriously stupid claims and showed horrible prejudice towards trans people. But there was clearly an element of hate in the article, fine share your opinion, but try to do it without insulting a whole group of people.
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;39213973]if she had said bisexuals would that make it okay[/QUOTE]
of course not?
-snip-
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;39214983]Oh get your surgery and then put a tampon in.
fuck 5 pages, knew this would turn into a debate.
Edit: Circlejerk I mean[/QUOTE]
you serious
this is relatively good for a trans thread on fp.
Can you guys please stop arguing about semantics already
Who fucking cares if some dude said a transgender or just transgender or whatever the fuck else, if he's not trying to insult anyone there is no point in arguing about all this shit.
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