[quote]A German court has found John Demjanjuk guilty of helping to murder more than 28,000 Jews at a Nazi death camp in World War II.
He was sentenced to five years in prison, one year less than prosecutors had asked for, but will be released pending a possible appeal.
Prosecutors said the Ukraine-born Demjanjuk, 91, was a guard at Sobibor camp in Nazi-occupied Poland in 1943.
He denied serving as a guard, saying he was a prisoner of war and a victim too.
Lawyers for Demjanjuk have said they will appeal against the conviction.
"The court is convinced that the defendant... served as a guard at Sobibor from 27 March 1943 to mid-September 1943," presiding Judge Ralph Alt said.
"As guard he took part in the murder of at least 28,000 people," he said.
An estimated 250,000 people died in the gas chambers at Sobibor. Demjanjuk was convicted of being an accessory to the murder of the 28,060 people who were killed there while he was a guard.
'Very emotional'
Demjanjuk, whose family says he is very ill, has been in custody since being extradited from the US in 2009.
Judge Alt said he had ordered that Demjanjuk should be freed during his appeal as he did not pose a flight risk because of his advanced age, poor health and the fact that he was stateless following his expulsion from the US, where after the war he worked in an Ohio car factory and became an American citizen.
Judge Alt told the Associated Press news agency there were "no grounds" to hold him, adding: "It's the law, and so it's justice. I say he's guilty but it's not a final verdict."
World Jewish Congress spokesman Michael Thaidigsmann responded by saying: "For us the important thing is that he got convicted. It's not up to an organisation like us to say whether he should be in jail or not."
Born in Ukraine in 1920, Demjanjuk grew up under Soviet rule.
He was a soldier in the Red Army in 1942 when he was captured by the Germans.
Prosecutors had argued he was recruited by the Germans to be an SS camp guard and that by working at a death camp he was a participant in the killings. No evidence was produced that he committed a specific crime.
It was the first time such a legal argument was made in a German court.
Central to the prosecution's case was an SS identity card indicating Demjanjuk was posted to Sobibor. The defence cast doubts on the authenticity of the card but court experts said it appeared genuine.
Demjanjuk listened to the verdict sitting in a wheelchair without responding, his eyes covered by dark glasses.
Concerns over his health led to frequent delays in the 18-month trial.
Relatives of some of the people killed at Sobibor said they were satisfied with the verdict.
"It's very emotional - it doesn't happen every day," Rudolf Salomon Cortissos - whose mother was gassed at Sobibor - told Associated Press.
Demjanjuk has already spent eight years in detention in Israel.
In the 1980s, an Israeli court identified him as "Ivan the Terrible", a notoriously sadistic guard at the Treblinka death camp, and sentenced him to death.
His conviction was overturned after new evidence showed that another Ukrainian was probably responsible. [/quote][quote] From video description: Demjanjuk was said to have shown no reaction as the verdict was read out[/quote]In my opinion that's fair verdict. Even at his age since such a mass murders should not be just forgotten because of sickness or age. Even if he didn't kill anyone personally, still he was part of it. Perhaps he was quiet during verdict because he has nothing to say to defend himself anymore?
Source: [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12321549[/url]
Might as well start charging the cashiers in the cases of people vs. McDonalds. Not the same thing, i'm aware but still.
To bad they can't send him back in a time machine and give him a proper sentence.
These trials are useless and only thing they achieve is revenge, and that gains nothing
He didn't even WANT to be there and was in no way the cause of the deaths. He was just as trapped there as the prisoners!
[QUOTE=Raiskauskone V2;29778414]These trials are useless and only thing they achieve is revenge, and that gains nothing[/QUOTE]
At least we can feel comfort that he actually got a trial, and didn't get stormed by highly trained military that shot him dead in his home then dumped his corpse in the ocean.
[QUOTE=Raiskauskone V2;29778414]These trials are useless and only thing they achieve is revenge, and that gains nothing[/QUOTE]
So murder is okay just because he did it a long time ago?
[QUOTE=Raiskauskone V2;29778414]These trials are useless and only thing they achieve is revenge, and that gains nothing[/QUOTE]
I suppose it might show others that no one gets away with bad things even if they happened long time ago.
[editline]12th May 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=TraderRager;29778421]He didn't even WANT to be there and was in no way the cause of the deaths. He was just as trapped there as the prisoners![/QUOTE]
He wanted to be there. Joining Nazi was voluntary.
Hey guys lets arrest Gulag administrators, oh wait Russia were the good guys :downs:
[QUOTE=arleitiss;29778503]
He wanted to be there. Joining Nazi was voluntary.[/QUOTE]
Being positioned at a death camp that you didn't know existed with no way to transfer out of isn't, though.
[quote]World Jewish Congress spokesman Michael Thaidigsmann responded by saying: "For us the important thing is that he got convicted. It's not up to an organisation like us to say whether he should be in jail or not."[/quote]
This. I don't think he needs to be jailed, but he deserves a conviction for his crimes.
[editline]12th May 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=The mouse;29778533]Hey guys lets arrest Gulag administrators, oh wait Russia were the good guys :downs:[/QUOTE]
They were just as bad, but Russia got to write a winner's history and everybody just forgets about Stalin's shit.
So he was captured by germans... Dont think it was much of a decision for him. Either be a prisoner of the camp, or work in it as a guard. Even if he did have a chance to go back to russia he would have been sent out to Syberia or something.
[QUOTE=Raiskauskone V2;29778414]These trials are useless and only thing they achieve is revenge, and that gains nothing[/QUOTE]
They act as a public record.
[QUOTE=Cuntsman;29778477]So murder is okay just because he did it a long time ago?[/QUOTE]
No it's not okay, but that doesn't make revenge any less meaningless.
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;29778947]No it's not okay, but that doesn't make revenge any less meaningless.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DogGunn;29778929]They act as a public record.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;29778947]No it's not okay, but that doesn't make revenge any less meaningless.[/QUOTE]
How is this revenge? The likelihood of him ever doing time is almost zero. They just need to sentence him to follow precedent.
Victor's justice is a cruel and apparently unrelenting force
[QUOTE=Baldr 2.0;29779009]He already is a free man if I can believe the source I'm reading. [url]http://www.nu.nl/buitenland/2513484/demjanjuk-91-komt-vrij-vanwege-leeftijd.html[/url][/QUOTE]
yeah the original article says it:
Judge Alt said he had ordered that Demjanjuk should be freed during his appeal as he did not pose a flight risk because of his advanced age, poor health and the fact that he was stateless following his expulsion from the US, where after the war he worked in an Ohio car factory and became an American citizen.
history is written by the victor - general shepherd
[QUOTE=The mouse;29778533]Hey guys lets arrest Gulag administrators, oh wait Russia were the good guys :downs:[/QUOTE]
Russia gets to slide because they joined the Allies and helped us win the war. Without them, we may not have been as victorious, and if we fought against them, we might be speaking Russian right now. Sortof an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" type of a deal.
I believe this would have been better if he didn't get any jail time.
[QUOTE=Cuntsman;29778477]So murder is okay just because he did it a long time ago?[/QUOTE]
Why did they wait so long? Why not when the war ended? They just had to wait 66 years until they decided "Hey, let's go find some old guy and find him guilty of murder that happened 66 years ago! That sounds like a spectacular idea!"
[QUOTE=DogGunn;29778929]They act as a public record.[/QUOTE]
yep, proof how worthless justice systems are. We finally do something we should have done 70 years ago, while it was still relevant. Now this old man is going to die in 6 months, instead of a few years from now. Bravo justice system.
[QUOTE=Brage Nyman;29778457]At least we can feel comfort that he actually got a trial, and didn't get stormed by highly trained military that shot him dead in his home then dumped his corpse in the ocean.[/QUOTE]
Did you just compare a prison guard to Bin Laden? Apples to oranges.
it's funny, cuz he was a prisoner
he was forced into acting as a guard
nazis used captured red army soldiers as essentially slaves very often
it's a shame that those lucky enough to not be executed just have to face more bullshit later in life
[QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;29780183]Did you just compare a prison guard to Bin Laden? Apples to oranges.[/QUOTE]
don't bother, brage is a confirmed idiot
I think this is bullshit. He was forced to serve or die. It was either kill or get killed. And it was fucking war, I think it's really stupid to put him on trial.
Also OP has no source
[QUOTE=arleitiss;29778503]He wanted to be there. Joining Nazi was voluntary.[/QUOTE]
Depends.
It was either that or get killed.
I don't see that as voluntary.
So he was Soviet Red Army then German SS? I don't see a way for that to be voluntary.
[QUOTE=johan_sm;29780293]I think this is bullshit. He was forced to serve or die. It was either kill or get killed. And it was fucking war, I think it's really stupid to put him on trial.
Also OP has no source[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12321549[/url]
There
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