• Incest and necrophilia 'should be legal' according to youth branch of Swedish Liberal People's Party
    412 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49885489]And the people who did it kept to themselves because they'd be dead scared of strangers and would try to keep the line "pure" by inbreeding. So despite not spreading their degeneracy to everyone and everything else, they'd instead bred xenophobia and growing elitism until they'd essentially create closed communities made exclusively of one family that would constantly fuck itself.[/QUOTE] While I agree that's hardly optimal, I fail to see why criminalising it is the way to go.
[QUOTE=Lium;49885447]I think we're at a stage now where that is irrelevant. There were far, far fewer people in the centuries it was allowed. And of course, this assumes that every incestual relationship will result in offspring, which it won't. And if it's the inbreeding you're really worried about, then ou would think homosexuals be could be incestous anway. But that's still illegal.[/QUOTE] Except there's a very good reason that societies which promoted incest are either rare or barely functioning - it doesn't work out in the long run and to legalise it is to encourage a slowly increasing burden upon society.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49885397]Incestuous relationship lead to bad situations a lot of the time, and the contraception argument is not valid because you can't trust people in good faith to use contraception for their whole life. [/QUOTE] And how is that a good argument? Again, you'd have to apply that same logic to other groups of people. Not to mention that abortions exist, so even if we assume that what you're saying is as true and sure as the laws of physics themselves (it's not), that still doesn't spell doom. [QUOTE=Ganerumo;49885397]The morality behind incest isn't just because someone one day saw someone kiss their cousin and was like "wow dude that's gross", it's because there was plenty of evidence over the past two thousand years that maybe fucking your blood relatives is kind of really fucking stupid.[/QUOTE] Yeah because we had the really good and reliable contraceptive measures of today for the last two thousand years-- oh wait Nowadays it's fine for other "risky" groups to have sex so long as they use contraceptives, the same applies for incest. [QUOTE=Ganerumo;49885397]There isn't a distinction made with "safe" incest like homosexual couples or people who aren't blood relatives because it'd make for pretty fucking retarded law texts to allow some types of incest and not others.[/QUOTE] Law isn't black and white, the law already has plenty of exceptions and if's in it. There is absolutely no reason for homosexual incest to be illegal.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49885477]But the same logic applies. Gay men are 20 times more likely to get HiV. We should ban gay relations and anal sex to protect people, etc. The logic is silly. Throwing people in prison always creates more problems.[/QUOTE] Homosexuality doesn't inherently generate HIV. The fact statistically more homosexual men catch HIV than straight men is due to how history turned out and to bad luck, not because Homosexuality is inevitably causing these problems.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49885397]Repeated instances of homosexual relationships over several generations don't lead to fucked up children and broken families. Incestuous relationship lead to bad situations a lot of the time, and the contraception argument is not valid because you can't trust people in good faith to use contraception for their whole life. The morality behind incest isn't just because someone one day saw someone kiss their cousin and was like "wow dude that's gross", it's because there was plenty of evidence over the past two thousand years that maybe fucking your blood relatives is kind of really fucking stupid. There isn't a distinction made with "safe" incest like homosexual couples or people who aren't blood relatives because it'd make for pretty fucking retarded law texts to allow some types of incest and not others.[/QUOTE] you're more likely to be born fucked up if you were born to parents over 40 than you are being born to blood-related parents and are more likely to have a broken family if you're living below the poverty level. we're sure as hell not gonna ban the poor from breeding
[QUOTE=Lium;49885515]While I agree that's hardly optimal, I fail to see why criminalising it is the way to go.[/QUOTE] Because it dissuades people from doing it which decreases the instances of it happening tremendously, thus avoiding a lot of the problems that would come from a society that promotes or allows incest to any degree.
[QUOTE=Lurr;49885327]I feel like everyone advocating for incest in this thread should read up on the concept of [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decadence"]decadence[/URL].[/QUOTE] Not entirely sure how much heft you expected a wikipedia link without context would have. It essentially equates to "oh no, slippery slope!"
[QUOTE=butre;49885527]you're more likely to be born fucked up if you were born to parents over 40 than you are being born to blood-related parents and are more likely to have a broken family if you're living below the poverty level. we're sure as hell not gonna ban the poor from breeding[/QUOTE] There's already organizations and infrastructures in place to keep a close eye on children born in poor families so that they can be taken away if the conditions aren't good enough. The government has a right to remove your children from you if you're an unfit parent, [I]and make you a criminal in the process[/I] for not being a responsible parent.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49885520]Except there's a very good reason that societies which promoted incest are either rare or barely functioning - it doesn't work out in the long run and to legalise it is to encourage a slowly increasing burden upon society.[/QUOTE] zoroastrianism is alive and well and has been for 2600 years
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49885520]Except there's a very good reason that societies which promoted incest are either rare or barely functioning - it doesn't work out in the long run and to legalise it is to encourage a slowly increasing burden upon society.[/QUOTE] Promoting incest isn't the same as allowing it.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49885434]The point is that this happens over the course of centuries, which eventually leads to society eventually changing as a result. Generally the more that a society outbreeds the more successful and less dysfunctional it is.[/QUOTE] So sex education will stop being a thing if incest is legalized? We'll just stop telling people that kids may come out fucked up? That's unrealistic. Not only that, [B]you're assuming incest rates will rise at all just because it's legal[/B]. It's like I said in a previous post, people won't stop doing it just because the government doesn't approve, and likewise, people aren't gonna start going "hey sis, incest is legal now ;) let's go"
Legality is less a case of "oh no more/less people are going to do x" And more a case of "what should we really be spending finite resources governing." If you need a good example of how that can go shitty, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Drugs"]look no further.[/URL]
[QUOTE=FetusFondler;49885567]So sex education will stop being a thing if incest is legalized? We'll just stop telling people that kids may come out fucked up? That's unrealistic. Not only that, [B]you're assuming incest rates will rise at all just because it's legal[/B]. It's like I said in a previous post, people won't stop doing it just because the government doesn't approve.[/QUOTE] Believe it or not there's a lot of people who don't do certain things [I]because it's illegal[/I]. There are idiots right now who can't control their libido and who will fuck anything they find attractive including their own sister and dead bodies, but there's also a lot of people with restraint because the law is there to remind them that this shit's illegal. That's how the legal system works. It dissuades you from doing some stupid bullshit because said stupid bullshit is illegal to begin with.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49885588]but there's also a lot of people with restraint because the law is there to remind them that this shit's illegal[/QUOTE] Remember, don't rape!
[QUOTE=Doom14;49885585]Legality is less a case of "oh no more/less people are going to do x" And more a case of "what should we really be spending finite resources governing." If you need a good example of how that can go shitty, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Drugs"]look no further.[/URL][/QUOTE] There is no ongoing state patrol to find and flush out any case of incest across Sweden. Incestuous relationships are illegal to begin with and if you're caught having one you're gonna get arrested, that's the end of the story. There isn't a Swedish gestapo unit following anyone who even thinks of nailing their cousin and arresting them. Because the US was fucking retarded in their handling of the drug market and went incredibly overboard as usual doesn't mean that everyone's going to do the same. [editline]7th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Doom14;49885602]Remember, don't rape![/QUOTE] Guess what A lot of people don't commit rape because of the legal ramifications. Having to go through lawsuits and prison isn't worth sticking your dick in someone to assert dominance for a lot of people. Believe it or not people are actually looking up at the law in terms of what they should and shouldn't do, and something being illegal is usually a pretty strong indicator that something shouldn't be done.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49885588]Believe it or not there's a lot of people who don't do certain things [I]because it's illegal[/I]. There are idiots right now who can't control their libido and who will fuck anything they find attractive including their own sister and dead bodies, but there's also a lot of people with restraint because the law is there to remind them that this shit's illegal. That's how the legal system works. It dissuades you from doing some stupid bullshit because said stupid bullshit is illegal to begin with.[/QUOTE] Nobody will not do something they wanna do if they're 100% sure nobody's gonna know they did it just because of the law. [editline]7th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;49885605]something being illegal is usually a pretty strong indicator that something shouldn't be done.[/QUOTE] Like marijuana consumption, right?
What's wrong with incestous behaviour as long as there's contraception involved and both people consent?
Ah yes I heard about this a week ago. While it's absolutely disgusting the actual Liberal party doesn't seem to agree with it. Eitherway the liberals are a puny 5% party without much of a future in Sweden and I think it will go even worse for them because of this.
If the justification for incest being illegal is that it could produce children with birth defects, why are we allowing women over the age of 40 to have sex? There is a much higher risk of them producing a baby with health problems.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49885605] Guess what A lot of people don't commit rape because of the legal ramifications. Having to go through lawsuits and prison isn't worth sticking your dick in someone to assert dominance for a lot of people. Believe it or not people are actually looking up at the law in terms of what they should and shouldn't do, and something being illegal is usually a pretty strong indicator that something shouldn't be done.[/QUOTE] Very bad comparison, utterly missing the point. You're right when you say people are scared of the legal ramifications, they're scared of the cops getting to them, but behind closed doors between two people that have consented, that chance is 0, and thinking anybody will not do it because of "respect to the law" is delusional.
Whether necrophilia (with or without consent) is "truly" morally right or wrong, I can't say, and I don't even really care. As for whether necrophilia should be legal? I think it damn well shouldn't be. More often than not, being a corpse fucker, or wishing to "bequeath" your body to a bunch of them, is not acceptable behavior and it should be punishable by fines and/or prison time depending on the severity of the case, i.e. previous arrests or criminal records, or blood alcohol content, etc., all of which must be considered when sentencing a person guilty of a necrophilic act. As is only natural in any court proceeding.
This "anything goes" mentality is the cancer of civilized society and you only have to look at the state of Sweden these days to see evidence of the damage caused by wanton liberalism.
This is the problem with moral relativism. There needs to be a point where we need to stop and that point is incest and necrophilia. This is the slippery slope in action
[QUOTE=Svinnik;49885723]This is the problem with moral relativism. There needs to be a point where we need to stop and that point is incest and necrophilia. This is the slippery slope in action[/QUOTE] "There needs to be a point where we need to stop, and [B]I'm[/B] the one who calls the shots here, so we stop [B]here[/B]!"
[QUOTE=butre;49885545]zoroastrianism is alive and well and has been for 2600 years[/QUOTE] the only zoroastrians who practised incest was the nobility a few centuries of inbreeding is enough to turn any human into a malformed freak of nature - just look at the hapsburgs. the only zoroastrians that are really around in significant numbers (like the parsi) are (surprise surprise) people who don't practice incest
[QUOTE=Svinnik;49885723]This is the problem with moral relativism. There needs to be a point where we need to stop and that point is incest and necrophilia. This is the slippery slope in action[/QUOTE] In a society without contraceptives and abortions incest should be wrong but give me a reason for why it should be banned in this modern age. You wanting it banned because you think its gross is just as silly as conservatives wanting interracial marriage and gay marriage banned for thinking those are gross.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49885605]A lot of people don't commit rape because of the legal ramifications. Having to go through lawsuits and prison isn't worth sticking your dick in someone to assert dominance for a lot of people. Believe it or not people are actually looking up at the law in terms of what they should and shouldn't do, and something being illegal is usually a pretty strong indicator that something shouldn't be done.[/QUOTE] Look, I was borderline shitposting there but let me be extremely direct and concise for a second. Laws have no right to interfere with consent (to others or oneself.) And they are often hypocritical in doing so. Drugs are illegal because they are bad for you and foster a bad environment that is created due to the illegality, but please, do consume taxed alcohol and tobacco! Or even more directly: It's illegal to kill yourself. So when people start going "b-but, the fabric of society" and "the slippery slope! Next people will be fucking and marrying animals and [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erika_Eiffel"]inanimate objects[/URL]!", I can understand why other people get upset because that's the same obnoxious, callous mewling right-wing and Christian groups are still actively applying to stuff that should've been a non-issue, like allowing non-heterosexual couples to marry. Even the most well-defined arguments against that have usually boiled down to "t-the children!!", and then include hilarious loopholes like bisexual individuals being allowed to marry without giving that same right to infertile persons. So here, having laws defined about consensual incestuous and necrophiliac sexual acts are a waste of time and resources [I]at the very best.[/I] Not that I like them. Not that I don't find them both "icky nasty", but the law has no real moral standing to waggle it's dick here. If you cite health concerns, that's your very real and tangible slippery slope that we could spiral down all day.
If you just make it a point of allowing incestuous relationships but forbidding them to have children they're not really any different from homosexual relationships in terms of how they affect the gene pool. How you're going to enforce that is a different question though.
[QUOTE=Amazing79;49885719]This "anything goes" mentality is the cancer of civilized society and you only have to look at the state of Sweden these days to see evidence of the damage caused by wanton liberalism.[/QUOTE] There's a difference between allowing people to do as they please and pushing people to do the "socially correct" thing to do as sweden is doing.
there's also mentioning that the majority of incestous relationships take the form of sibling abuse or child abuse by an older family member. they exist primarily because a family member in a position of power takes advantage of another who lacks such power (and may appear to consent, when in actual fact it is a form of rape).
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