• German trans girl ‘to be institutionalised’
    892 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Atlessa;34485299]This understanding was incorrect, I guess. I am a (transgender) woman. Although since I was born with male genitalia my sex could legally be called "male", however my gender is "female". My therapist, and two independent doctors confirmed this. A judge accepted those confirmations, and I am now legally (literally) to be considered female. Right now I am working my ass off to get an appointment for that surgery I've been waiting for soooo long, but (knowing germany and their paperwork-hurdles) I fear I will have to wait at least another 9 months... AFTER that my "sex" will be female as well... (as much as I dislike it)[/QUOTE] Aww, how old are you btw?
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;34485352]Aww, how old are you btw?[/QUOTE] 25, not that that matters (much)?
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34485389]Wikitionary says gender is "The mental analog of sex: one's maleness, femaleness, etc., as seen from their own perspective.". So I guess that I was wrong. I just had trouble getting good straightforward sources.[/QUOTE] Wow... I didn't think this would happen, least of all tonight. Good thing. I know it can be very difficult to admit being wrong. Glad you came around ;) Edit: [quote]I can still identify people by sex though.[/QUOTE] Ehhh... well I have to disagree with that. At least I, personally, wish to be identified by my gender. Because, as stated above, despite my having a penis, I am female.
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34485389] I can still identify people by sex though.[/QUOTE] What satisfaction do you get from doing this? Do you enjoy purposely saying hurtful things to others?
[QUOTE=Atlessa;34485383]25, not that that matters (much)?[/QUOTE] What would be the legal age you could get a sex change in Germany? 18?
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;34485446]What would be the legal age you could get a sex change in Germany? 18?[/QUOTE] I think the youngest german to ever undergo gender reassignment surgery was Kim Petras, being 16 at the time. Lucky girl... But that is one of few exceptions. In fact you can consider yourself pretty lucky if you got GRS before 21.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34485433]What satisfaction do you get from doing this? Do you enjoy purposely saying hurtful things to others?[/QUOTE] What if he doesn't know their gender? It's not like the first thing you say to a person when you meet them is: "Hi, what's your gender?" or "Are you a man or a woman?" Unless they look like their gender.... And that's another thing, how is someone to know your gender anyway when you do get involved in a relationship?
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;34485512]What if he doesn't know their gender? It's not like the first thing you say to a person when you meet them is: "Hi, what's your gender?" or "Are you a man or a woman?" Unless they look like their gender....[/QUOTE] Atlessa looks like her gender , female. so calling her her, would be correct by that, however, her sex is currently male, lolkork seems to be saying, would still call her he.
[QUOTE=PrusseluskenV2;34485554]I've given up on my own transgenderism due to the incredibly inane procedure here - it takes one to one and a half year of therapy before hormones are even considered, then you're forced to lie to actually get diagnosed. Norway is supposed to be a great country yet we LGBT folks are hardly accepted.[/QUOTE] Move to Canada, our schools are covered in rainbow flags and posters.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;34485512]What if he doesn't know their gender? It's not like the first thing you say to a person when you meet them is: "Hi, what's your gender?" or "Are you a man or a woman?" Unless they look like their gender.... And that's another thing, how is someone to know your gender anyway when you do get involved in a relationship?[/QUOTE] Saying that you will still identify someone by there sex implies that you will do it regardless of knowledge of their gender. Identifying someone by their sex with no knowledge of their gender being to the contrary is a given that doesn't need to be stated because anyone would do that.
GRS can be paid for by the NHS over here, so all i'd have to pay for is the hormone therapy.
[QUOTE=Metanar;34482182]Let me rephrase this in a way that is actually true: [I]Absent[/I] father expects child to conform to gender roles enforced by society and is shocked when the child doesn't fit with this oppressive system and tries to have the child sectioned. In other news the father was an asshole and that's why his wife wanted to divorce him.[/QUOTE] Wow
I see so much misconceptions in this thread, looks like I have to clear things up. There are 3 types of gender: Primary (gonadary) gender is defined whether you have testicles or ovaries. Chromosomes determine this. Secondary (genital) gender is defined whether you have male of female genitalia. The presence of testosterone made by the testicles during the embryonic stage determine this. The tertiary (psychosexual) gender is defined whether you think that you are a man or a woman. The 3rd one is important here. While she is physically a man, she wants to be a woman. Because the psychosexual gender is determined by a decade-long imprinting and presence of role models, I doubt that anything can change her psychosexual gender at this point.
If a cock goes about nesting on eggs that doesn't make it a hen/female, It's still a cock/male. Sex is a purely functional thing. Being a male is down to having male reproductive organs, being a female is down to having female reproductive organs. It's got nothing to do with what gender you are psychologically. And if you're a male you're a he, and if you're a female you're a she. That's the logical way of looking at it. Imo, calling people bigots for referring to transgenders by their sex and not their gender and getting deeply offended by it just seems to me to imply a degree of self-importance.
i wish i was a girl so i could have lesbian secx but do you see me starting a shitstorm over it??
[QUOTE=RobbL;34485653]If a cock goes about nesting on eggs that doesn't make it a hen/female, It's still a cock/male. Sex is a purely functional thing. Being a male is down to having male reproductive organs, being a female is down to having female reproductive organs. It's got nothing to do with what gender you are psychologically. And if you're a male you're a he, and if you're a female you're a she. That's the logical way of looking at it. Imo, calling people bigots for referring to transgenders by their sex and not their gender and getting deeply offended by it just seems to me to imply a degree of self-importance.[/QUOTE] hehe, you said cock XD
[QUOTE=abcpea2;34485676]i wish i was a girl so i could have lesbian secx but do you see me starting a shitstorm over it??[/QUOTE] She didn't start this, her father did.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;34485512] And that's another thing, how is someone to know your gender anyway when you do get involved in a relationship?[/QUOTE] I think you are confusing sex and gender in this question? Anyway, obviously you can hardly look in someones pants before beginning a conversation, and either way that is not required. Trust me on this: most transgendered people LOOK like the gender they want to. So if you just go by your first impression, 95% of the time you'd be on the right way. And there's manly looking women, and girlish looking men everywhere, few of them are transgender :D [QUOTE=PrusseluskenV2;34485554]I've given up on my own transgenderism due to the incredibly inane procedure here - it takes one to one and a half year of therapy before hormones are even considered, then you're forced to lie to actually get diagnosed. Norway is supposed to be a great country yet we LGBT folks are hardly accepted. [/QUOTE] I had to do 2 years of therapy before I could start hormones... so I guess 1.5 years isn't too bad at all xD (though I admit it IS possible to get them quicker than that in germany... I was just... lazy -.-)
[QUOTE=abcpea2;34485676]i wish i was a girl so i could have lesbian secx but do you see me starting a shitstorm over it??[/QUOTE] Is your father trying to lock you into an institution designed to break you until you consider yourself a male?
[QUOTE=RobbL;34485653]If a cock goes about nesting on eggs that doesn't make it a hen/female, It's still a cock/male. Sex is a purely functional thing. Being a male is down to having male reproductive organs, being a female is down to having female reproductive organs. It's got nothing to do with what gender you are psychologically. And if you're a male you're a he, and if you're a female you're a she. That's the logical way of looking at it. Imo, calling people bigots for referring to transgenders by their sex and not their gender and getting deeply offended by it just seems to me to imply a degree of self-importance.[/QUOTE] that's like saying calling an african american a racial slur, and when they get offended, you say that they imply a degree of self-importance you know how bigoted that sounds?
[QUOTE=RobbL;34485653]If a cock goes about nesting on eggs that doesn't make it a hen/female, It's still a cock/male. Sex is a purely functional thing. Being a male is down to having male reproductive organs, being a female is down to having female reproductive organs. It's got nothing to do with what gender you are psychologically. And if you're a male you're a he, and if you're a female you're a she. That's the logical way of looking at it. Imo, calling people bigots for referring to transgenders by their sex and not their gender and getting deeply offended by it just seems to me to imply a degree of self-importance.[/QUOTE]You seem like an expert on this subject. Tell me, when does gender identity based on sex end and when does gender identity based on gender begin?
why are there such dicks on this forum? did they watch too many AmazingAtheist video's and decided it was worth getting self-righteous over shit because some modicum of politeness and respect is less important than clutching on to some non-existent objective truth? [editline]31st January 2012[/editline] NO DAMNIT A MAN IS A MAN and I DON'T CARE WHO GETS UPSET!!
[QUOTE=thisispain;34485807] A MAN IS A MAN [/QUOTE] Know what? I agree. A man is a man. BUT: I am NOT a man, despite being owner to a penis. Now what?
How can that kid be so sure about his/her gender role with 11. She doesn't even have the full experience of any gendee role. Don't get me wrong, if Alex wants to be female hell who am I to judge, but how can she be so sure in this age?
[QUOTE=Atlessa;34485876]Know what? I agree. A man is a man. BUT: I am NOT a man, despite being owner to a penis. Now what?[/QUOTE]Now people's rigid worldview is put into question and they violently reject what you say and that their limited way of seeing things is right or something like that
[QUOTE=Killuah;34485898]How can that kid be so sure about his/her gender role with 11. She doesn't even have the full experience of any gendee role. Don't get me wrong, if Alex wants to be female hell who am I to judge, but how can she be so sure in this age?[/QUOTE] Thats why the standard procedure is to put the child on puberty blockers, and wait for Therapists to judge the child mature enough for the descision to be made.
[QUOTE=Killuah;34485898]How can that kid be so sure about his/her gender role with 11. She doesn't even have the full experience of any gendee role. Don't get me wrong, if Alex wants to be female hell who am I to judge, but how can she be so sure in this age?[/QUOTE] Again, when you were eleven were you unclear about whether you were a boy or girl?
[QUOTE=Killuah;34485898]How can that kid be so sure about his/her gender role with 11. She doesn't even have the full experience of any gendee role. Don't get me wrong, if Alex wants to be female hell who am I to judge, but how can she be so sure in this age?[/QUOTE] I'd put it to how her self-concept developed. some people develop faster than others. Though, some people are mistaken about their gender at such an age, Like if I thought of myself as a boy when I was 11, only to see myself as a trans woman later in life. And, as a safety measure they don't tend to do HRT on someone that age, instead prescribing puberty blockers, which are much safer and reversibel, as I recall
[QUOTE=kaven;34481944]If the child said that he/she would rather die than go through puberty and has repeatedly made suicide threaths, then I would say that the person is mentally unstable. But institutionalizing the kid is bad though.[/QUOTE] She's obviously aware that puberty would physically ruin her, no wonder she's suicidal.
[QUOTE=Killuah;34485898]How can that kid be so sure about his/her gender role with 11. She doesn't even have the full experience of any gendee role. Don't get me wrong, if Alex wants to be female hell who am I to judge, but how can she be so sure in this age?[/QUOTE] You are right, which is why a decision would not be made at this point, but instead the kid would get medical treatment to delay puberty to a point where (s)he CAN make this decision. Also experts (psychologists I think is the correct term) would talk to the child over years, trying to make her think about this decision, but without pushing her in either direction. (and there I went and used "she" again, even though it MIGHT actually a boy we're talking about... woot?)
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