• German trans girl ‘to be institutionalised’
    892 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34494391]acds was purposely making statements that are inflammatory and can easily be proven wrong for the sole purpose of getting a rise out of people Isn't that called trolling? So why are you calling out people who reply to him before you call him out [/QUOTE] Not really, that's called opinions. I don't really see how they are inflammatory. If they are easily proven wrong, then try to do that. That's the point of dicussions and debates. All I've seen are people trying to be witty and insult acds. Like what you are doing right now. [QUOTE=Zeke129;34494491]We're not writing about fucking penguins for national geographic, we're talking about human beings If you refuse to use the pronoun of the gender the person identifies as, you are purposely dehumanizing them by denying their identity and you're basically a massive asshole So pick one: your petty pragmatism, or being a compassionate human being apparently you're incapable of handling both[/QUOTE] [editline]1st February 2012[/editline] Let me remind you that I don't agree with acds at all. If someone identifies themselves as a female, while being born a male, then sure. Who am I to decide what another person feels that they are. It's kinda equivalent to believing that all males are straight and homosexuals are messed up.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;34494981]Yep, don't see whats so hard to believe about that if I'm honest. I mean of course it isn't quite what trans gendered people feel but it's still a persecution of a group.[/QUOTE] You were bullied by others due to your beliefs, my intentions are not to trivialize or deny that, but the point was that you have never been marginalized or disadvantaged by the State. Like you said, incidents of bullying is not comparable to treatment transexuals get from society and their government.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;34495010]Not really, that's called opinions. I don't really see how they are inflammatory. If they are easily proven wrong, then try to do that. That's the point of dicussions and debates. All I've seen are people trying to be witty and insult acds. Like what you are doing right now. [/QUOTE] What about the people who were insulted by [i]his[/i] posts I'm not howling for bans or anything even remotely like that but there's kind of a double standard here
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34495190]What about the people who were insulted by [i]his[/i] posts I'm not howling for bans or anything even remotely like that but there's kind of a double standard here[/QUOTE] I don't think it was his goal was to insult anyone and I can't really see how you really can get offended by his posts. Can't really say that for you though: "leaving it out of the argument is pretty much only for[B] sociopaths"[/B] "So pick one: your petty pragmatism, or being a compassionate human being [B]apparently you're incapable of handling both[/B]"
[QUOTE=Swebonny;34495447]I don't think it was his goal was to insult anyone and I can't really see how you really can get offended by his posts. Can't really say that for you though: "leaving it out of the argument is pretty much only for[B] sociopaths"[/B] "So pick one: your petty pragmatism, or being a compassionate human being [B]apparently you're incapable of handling both[/B]"[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=acds;34482073]It's a guy. He can live whatever fairy tale he wants, he was born a guy and will always be.[/QUOTE] personally I find this pretty offensive
[QUOTE=Swebonny;34495447][b][highlight]I don't think it was his goal was to insult anyone[/highlight][/b] and I can't really see how you really can get offended by his posts. Can't really say that for you though: "leaving it out of the argument is pretty much only for[B] sociopaths"[/B] "So pick one: your petty pragmatism, or being a compassionate human being [B]apparently you're incapable of handling both[/B]"[/QUOTE] yeah that's only an excuse for the first time you say something bigoted
Good work Swebonny, your efforts here are commendable.
[QUOTE=Metanar;34495492]personally I find this pretty offensive[/QUOTE] I'm not transgender and I found it pretty offensive as well "He's a guy. He can live whatever fairy tale he wants, men are only supposed to have sex with women and that's the way it always will be" "He's black. He can live whatever fairy tale he wants, blacks are only supposed to marry blacks and that's the way it always will be"
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34495526]I'm not transgender and I found it pretty offensive as well "He's a guy. He can live whatever fairy tale he wants, men are only supposed to have sex with women and that's the way it always will be" "He's black. He can live whatever fairy tale he wants, blacks are only supposed to marry blacks and that's the way it always will be"[/QUOTE] Except that is completely not equivalent to what I said.
[QUOTE=acds;34495582]Except that is completely not equivalent to what I said.[/QUOTE] Why not?
Also people have opinions, some people are offended by those opinions. How many times haven't you been arguing about something that was offensive to someone? Someone somewhere is bound to take offence. Basically it always happens, so yeah.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34495526]I'm not transgender and I found it pretty offensive as well "He's a guy. He can live whatever fairy tale he wants, men are only supposed to have sex with women and that's the way it always will be" "He's black. He can live whatever fairy tale he wants, blacks are only supposed to marry blacks and that's the way it always will be"[/QUOTE] I love how transparent you can make bigotry by subbing in "black" to the equation "I don't hate blacks - I just think being black is a sin" "Hate the black, love the black person" "I only hate it when black people flaunt their blackness" "As long as a black guy doesn't talk about being black in public, I'm okay with it"
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34495590]Why not?[/QUOTE] Because I didn't say he couldn't feel and regard himself as a woman.
[QUOTE=acds;34495611]Because I didn't say he couldn't feel and regard himself as a woman.[/QUOTE] You're still purposely mislabelling for the sake of being inflammatory "acds sure does that a lot, it should stop posting" I mean come on that's just cruel
[QUOTE=RobbL;34494951] Say I was out and a met a transgender who has a male body but psychologically they see themselves as female (which isn't obvious to anyone else, you probably wouldn't find that out until they actually tell you), and after talking to them a bit they overhear me saying to a friend "[I]He's[/I] a nice guy" Now from yesterday I'm given the impression that they would be offended by this and think of me as a bigot. That's what I don't understand, and everyone was implying that I'm a bad person for that and giving me a barrage of boxes and disagrees, when i'm probably more open-minded with this stuff than the average guy. Isn't it just personal choice whether you decide to call them by their sex or gender unless they personally ask you to do otherwise, seeing as there's no politically correct standard regarding this? (and we all know how overkill the whole PC thing is) Technically transgenders are both male and female, just in different ways.[/QUOTE] I think what you, and many others both on this forum and everywhere else on earth, are misunderstanding is that transgender women DO NOT LOOK LIKE MEN. If you were to randomly meet a trans woman in a bar, you would almost certainly automatically assume she's a woman like every other woman you know, because she looks like one. It's not "Hey, I look like a man, but could you please call me maria" I thought that was clear <.<
yeah as much as I disagree with most of what acds has been saying, that really wasn't a solid argument against him it seems like whenever someone has an uneducated opinion, or they happen to be a bit of an asshole about something, they are called a bigot or a complete idiot as long as the topic has to do with transgenders there is also a way of listening to his argument and accepting that he believes whatever he believes, and then making a counterargument that's not based on his own qualities or misconstructed statements [editline]1st February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=TheFilmSlacker;34495621]Wow, there's a lot of assholes in this thread.[/QUOTE] like this, I have no idea whether you support transgeneder rights or oppose them, but either way that has nothing to do with anything
[QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;34495641]yeah as much as I disagree with most of what acds has been saying, that really wasn't a solid argument against him it seems like whenever someone has an uneducated opinion, or they happen to be a bit of an asshole about something, they are called a bigot or a complete idiot as long as the topic has to do with transgenders there is also a way of listening to his argument and accepting that he believes whatever he believes, and then making a counterargument that's not based on his own qualities or misconstructed statements [/QUOTE] what happens if you make that counterargument (showing the difference between gender and sex) and the person ignores it when is it acceptable to reject someone's beliefs and simply label them as coming from a bigoted or prejudicial frame of mind? this thread happens almost monthly and it's hard not to take this kind of thing personally when you're involved in the lgbt community
you can label them as a bigot all you want, I just dont see what posting about it accomplishes it just makes them mad, furthering the argument and hostility like we had a several-page long argument in that other thread, but I'm pretty sure you never called me a bigot or an idiot, and I didn't say anything like that to you. it was a perfectly good argument, and I don't hate you for it or anything but with this guy it's just hostile
[QUOTE=acds;34494637]If I met the child in person, I'd use "She". Actually I'll just use "The child", though I'm sure someone will find something to rage about that too.[/QUOTE] Is there any particular reason why you have such a massive aversion to referring someone to the gender you know they identify themself as?
[QUOTE=Atlessa;34495633]I think what you, and many others both on this forum and everywhere else on earth, are misunderstanding is that transgender women DO NOT LOOK LIKE MEN. If you were to randomly meet a trans woman in a bar, you would almost certainly automatically assume she's a woman like every other woman you know, because she looks like one. It's not "Hey, I look like a man, but could you please call me maria" I thought that was clear <.<[/QUOTE] What do you mean? I've just been talking about transgenders who have [I]not[/I] gone through sex reassignment surgery. If someone's gender is female but their sex is male, obviously to anyone else they look like a man
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34495625]You're still purposely mislabelling for the sake of being inflammatory "acds sure does that a lot, it should stop posting" I mean come on that's just cruel[/QUOTE] How many times haven't you argued for something that was seen as inflammatory? Do you think every German involved in helping the murder of Jews should be hung? No? Well guess what, you just offended tens of millions, probably hundreds. Just because someone is offended doesn't mean they are in the right, nor a good reason to not argue/debate/express such opinion. If I didn't say anything that could offend people, I'd be pretty much mute. Opinion someone finds offensive =/= flaming and trolling.
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34495729]Is there any particular reason why you have such a massive aversion to referring someone to the gender you know they identify themself as?[/QUOTE] Well legally the child is still male.
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34495729]Is there any particular reason why you have such a massive aversion to referring someone to the gender you know they identify themself as?[/QUOTE] Since there is a shitstorm so powerful it could uproot the Empire State building about it, I just use "the child" instead so that there isn't a she or he, seeing as I'm trying to not start it up again.
[QUOTE=acds;34495789]How many times haven't you argued for something that was seen as inflammatory? Do you think every German involved in helping the murder of Jews should be hung? No? Well guess what, you just offended tens of millions, probably hundreds. Just because someone is offended doesn't mean they are in the right, nor a good reason to not argue/debate/express such opinion. [b]If I didn't say anything that could offend people, I'd be pretty much mute.[/b][/QUOTE] Nobody is asking you to never offend anyone, but we are asking you to take steps to avoid doing so whenever possible. Right now you're willing to offend many people for the sake of ONE LETTER. Why? I used to think the same way you did. Up until I was 14 or 15 I was the same way. [i]Don't like being called a faggot? Deal with it, faggot.[/i] Then I grew the fuck up. I don't make excuses for myself - I was just a total shitlord. I don't accept excuses from other people doing similar things, either. Are you also just a shitlord?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34495526]I'm not transgender and I found it pretty offensive as well "He's a guy. He can live whatever fairy tale he wants, men are only supposed to have sex with women and that's the way it always will be" "He's black. He can live whatever fairy tale he wants, blacks are only supposed to marry blacks and that's the way it always will be"[/QUOTE] acds never said that men are only supposed to have sex with women. You can't make a comparison to something you've just made up
[QUOTE=RobbL;34495882]acds never said that men are only supposed to have sex with women. You can't make a comparison to something you've just made up[/QUOTE] I don't think you know how analogies work but ok I was making the same argument but subbing in gays and blacks for illustrative purposes
You do realise how hypocritical you sound?
[QUOTE=RobbL;34495914]You do realise how hypocritical you sound?[/QUOTE] I wasn't [b]making the arguments for myself[/b] come on, you have to be missing the point on purpose now
if you were subbing in gays or blacks you would have said "He's a gay. he can live whatever fairy tale he wants, but he will always be a gay" not adding that part about "men should only sleep with women"
[QUOTE=acds;34495864]Since there is a shitstorm so powerful it could uproot the Empire State building about it, I just use "the child" instead so that there isn't a she or he, seeing as I'm trying to not start it up again.[/QUOTE] Why? You know that she identifies herself as a female. Why do you insist on whitewashing her gender identity for your own benefit?
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