[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34499155]There is a clear difference between sex and gender, and even your definitions recognize this, saying 'of or denoting the [B]sex[/B]' and not 'of or denoting the [B]gender[/B]'
There is no such thing as 'cultural sex', and the fact that you would use the terms sex and gender almost interchangeably displays how you fail to grasp this.[/QUOTE]
Well the words 'male' and 'female' apply to both sex and gender, that's what's so confusing about it
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499179]But what if you're just generally talking about a transgender at that stage without ever having actually talked to or even met them? What gender do you call them then?[/QUOTE]
Do you know which gender they identify as? If so, call them that. If you know they're transgender but don't know if they're transitioning or have already finished doing so (lots of times you honestly can't tell) then guess.
If you don't know whether or not the person is transgender just go with your gut.
[QUOTE=nekosune;34499205]If you know they are transgender, like in this case, you call them the appropriate gender, like for this little girl, she. basically, once you know the gender they wish to be,thats the one you call them.[/QUOTE]
Earlier in this thread though, the general theme was that calling someone by their sex and not their gender is bigoted and offensive in any context
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499179]But what if you're just generally talking about a transgender at that stage without ever having actually talked to or even met them? What gender do you call them then?[/QUOTE]
If you know they are trans, you already know that their preferred pronouns are not the ones assigned to them at birth.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499209]Well the words 'male' and 'female' apply to both sex and gender, that's what's so confusing about it[/QUOTE]
Referring to an actual person you always use their gender identity if you are aware of it.
If you are referring to someone's biological sex for whatever reason, like for example a medical reason then you use the biological meaning of male or female.
You don't refer to a trangendered person by their biological sex. You refer to their biological sex by their biological sex.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499237]Earlier in this thread though, the general theme was that calling someone by their sex and not their gender is bigoted and offensive in any context[/QUOTE]
It's offensive if you know otherwise, which everyone in this thread did because they read the OP. If you accidentally call someone by the wrong pronoun because you didn't know, you made a mistake and mistakes are more often than not okay
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499237]Earlier in this thread though, the general theme was that calling someone by their sex and not their gender is bigoted and offensive in any context[/QUOTE]
I actually disagree with that, I believe that it is offensive, IF you know otherwise, if you dont, it is an innocent mistake. The thing is, once you know otherwise, it dosnt matter if they are in the room, in another room, or other side of the world, it is still offensive to call them the wrong gender, once you know it is wrong.
[QUOTE=Herb;34498901]
So infertile people are neither male nor female?[/QUOTE]
As I've said, as long as you still have the sexual organs, that still counts imo. Another thing that denotes being a female in mammals is having mammary glands
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34499200]Spoken like someone who has the privilege to not have to worry about such things.[/QUOTE]
I don't see why somebody should worry about such things
and I never knew it was a privilege in the first place
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499289]As I've said, as long as you still have the sexual organs, that still counts imo. Another thing that denotes being a female in mammals is having mammary glands[/QUOTE]
What about mastectomies
[QUOTE=nekosune;34499275]I actually disagree with that, I believe that it is offensive, IF you know otherwise, if you dont, it is an innocent mistake. The thing is, once you know otherwise, it dosnt matter if they are in the room, in another room, or other side of the world, it is still offensive to call them the wrong gender, once you know it is wrong.[/QUOTE]
But is it offensive if you're just referring in a conversation to a transgender you've never met and have no idea of what gender they identify as? I mean you're not going to look phone directories for their number and then ring them up and ask them
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499343]But is it offensive if you're just referring in a conversation to a transgender you've never met and have no idea of what gender they identify as? I mean you're not going to look phone directories for their number and then ring them up and ask them[/QUOTE]
Like I said, mistakes aren't offensive
But the article had all the information required to not make a mistake in this case. Even the TITLE has all the information.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34499339]What about mastectomies[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499077]No, i said 'has a male to female [I]ever had[/I] any of these qualities?' implying that they at least would've had to have them or had the potential to develop those qualities at some point in their life...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Protection;34499314]I don't see why somebody should worry about such things
and I never knew it was a privilege in the first place[/QUOTE]
It's because of people like this
[QUOTE=acds;34482073]It's a guy. He can live whatever fairy tale he wants, he was born a guy and will always be.[/QUOTE]
And people like the father who want her to be sent to an institution to be "normalized" (aka mentally broken) that this sort of thing is a problem.
You are being an idiot for the sake of being an idiot.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499289]Another thing that denotes being a female in mammals is having mammary glands[/QUOTE]
I'm a trans woman. I have mammary glands.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499343]But is it offensive if you're just referring in a conversation to a transgender you've never met and have no idea of what gender they identify as? I mean you're not going to look phone directories for their number and then ring them up and ask them[/QUOTE]
a transgender girl, is allways identifying as female, A transgender male, male.
basically if you know they are transgender, you know what they wish to identify as.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499367]quote[/QUOTE]
oh ok
someone already responded to that by the way
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34499383]It's because of people like this
And people like the father who want her to be sent to an institution to be "normalized" (aka mentally broken) that this sort of thing is a problem.
You are being an idiot for the sake of being an idiot.[/QUOTE]
I'm sort of confused as to who you are calling an idiot here, but alright.
I'm just curious as to how in the fuck an 11 year old
I mean what
[QUOTE=Herb;34499424]I'm a trans woman. I have mammary glands.[/QUOTE]
*Implants
[QUOTE=Protection;34499458]I'm sort of confused as to who you are calling an idiot here, but alright.
[B]I'm just curious as to how in the fuck an 11 year old
I mean what[/B][/QUOTE]
Good job. You are being part of the problem.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499503]*Implants[/QUOTE]
Uhh, no.
Estrogen causes the development of breast tissue and mammary glands, just like in cis females.
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34499507]Good job. You are being part of the problem.[/QUOTE]
how the shit am I being part of the problem
I mean what is the problem
I mean... What?
I'm not against anybody being trans or anything but how the hell does an 11 year old I mean, be a trans? I'm somehow part of the problem for just being curious about something? Well shit, can't say I didn't see that coming.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499503]*Implants[/QUOTE]
You are so uninformed it's actually funny.
In a sad sort of way.
I think I'm just wasting my time with this thread haha. I don't think i'll bother discussing transgenderism again until scientists discover everything there is to know about it... the whole topic is just a minefield as it is now
i love threads like these on facepunch because the sheer amount of stupidity could easily power london for a week
there is nothing wrong with trans people god fucking damn it. if they want to be something else let them be
[QUOTE=Protection;34499566]how the shit am I being part of the problem
I mean what is the problem
I mean... What?
I'm not against anybody being trans or anything but how the hell does an 11 year old I mean, be a trans? I'm somehow part of the problem for just being curious about something? Well shit, can't say I didn't see that coming.[/QUOTE]
You being shocked that an 11 year old can be transgendered implies that you believe an 11 year old is incapable of having a gender identity.
Which is the kind of excuse someone would use to institutionalize someone to "fix" them.
Btw,
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34499578]You are so uninformed it's actually funny.
In a sad sort of way.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/Illu_breast_anatomy.jpg/250px-Illu_breast_anatomy.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE]A mammary gland is an organ in mammals that produces milk to feed young offspring[/QUOTE]
So you're saying a male to female transgender just magically grows these?
[QUOTE=Protection;34499566]how the shit am I being part of the problem
I mean what is the problem
I mean... What?
I'm not against anybody being trans or anything but how the hell does an 11 year old I mean, be a trans? I'm somehow part of the problem for just being curious about something? Well shit, can't say I didn't see that coming.[/QUOTE]
it's pretty simple how they do. When I was eleven, I felt like my birth sex, I felt like a dude so I grew up a dude and now I'm a happy dude. some people at eleven may grow up feeling different, and it could cause a great deal of stress for them, and they usually feel more comfortable after appropriate measures have been taken I.E. hormone therapy and whatnot.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499637]So you're saying a male to female transgender just magically grows these?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, sure, "[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen"]magic[/URL]"
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499637]Btw,
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/Illu_breast_anatomy.jpg/250px-Illu_breast_anatomy.jpg[/IMG]
So you're saying a male to female transgender just magically grows these?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.secondtype.info/breastdev.htm[/url]
the lack of testosterone and the estrogen taking during HRT stimulates full breast growth, to the point that have the ability to lactate.
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