[QUOTE=RobbL;34499637]Btw,
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/Illu_breast_anatomy.jpg/250px-Illu_breast_anatomy.jpg[/IMG]
So you're saying a male to female transgender just magically grows these?[/QUOTE]
men can have them so yeah. ever heard of gyno?
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499637]Btw,
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/Illu_breast_anatomy.jpg/250px-Illu_breast_anatomy.jpg[/IMG]
So you're saying a male to female transgender just magically grows these?[/QUOTE]
If by magic you mean hormones, then yes they're grown magically.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499637]
So you're saying a male to female transgender just magically grows these?[/QUOTE]
There's nothing magical about it but yes that does in fact happen.
[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;34499657]Yeah, sure, "[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen"]magic[/URL]"[/QUOTE]
Well sorry, I was wrong.
That's pretty cool actually. But like I said:
[QUOTE]I'm sorry i'm no expert on transgenderism, and neither are the majority of people. But that doesn't makes us bigots. There are always going to be people who don't understand something whatever it is, just accept that. The people who've been disagreeing with me have given me the impression that the transgender community just expects too much of other people.[/QUOTE]
Why does everyone here go apeshit whenever someone gets something wrong? Getting stuff wrong is part of life
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34499614]You being shocked that an 11 year old can be transsexual implies that you believe an 11 year old is incapable of having a gender identity.[/QUOTE]
well yeah okay so I do
because I have no idea on how the fuck that works out, I don't exactly KNOW how or why an 11 year old would have a gender identity
but I never specifically came in here with my hands waving in the air saying "I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM HATE ME FUCKING HATE ME"
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499737]Well, I was wrong sorry. Like I said:
Why does everyone here go apeshit whenever someone gets something wrong? Getting stuff wrong is part of life[/QUOTE]
because you keep digging a trench. If you'd just gone 'well i guess I was wrong sorry' and left none of this would have gone down, but you had to keep desperately attempting to justify yourself which no one honestly cared about before.
[QUOTE=Protection;34499738]well yeah okay so I do
because I have no idea on how the fuck that works out, I don't exactly KNOW how or why an 11 year old would have a gender identity
but I never specifically came in here with my hands waving in the air saying "I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM HATE ME FUCKING HATE ME"[/QUOTE]Ignorance is part of the problem.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499737]Well, I was wrong sorry That's pretty cool actually. But like I said:
Why does everyone here go apeshit whenever someone gets something wrong? Getting stuff wrong is part of life[/QUOTE]
The thing is a basic google search would have said different, or simply listening to people on the thread, also there is less belief that you mean well, when throughout the latter quater of the thread, you seemed to have been arguing that it is valid to call transgender people the wrong gender. , instead of actualy really admitting an error, you allways couple it with a jab at people "Well I was wrong, but you overreacted".
[QUOTE=Protection;34499738]well yeah okay so I do
because I have no idea on how the fuck that works out, I don't exactly KNOW how or why an 11 year old would have a gender identity
but I never specifically came in here with my hands waving in the air saying "I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM HATE ME FUCKING HATE ME"[/QUOTE]
Don't worry mate, the people here can't seem to grasp the concept of 'opinions'
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499737]
Why does everyone here go apeshit whenever someone gets something wrong? Getting stuff wrong is part of life[/QUOTE]
It's one thing to be wrong, but it's another thing to be wrong and throw around this wrong information like it's fact.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;34499779]because you keep digging a trench. If you'd just gone 'well i guess I was wrong sorry' and left none of this would have gone down, but you had to keep desperately attempting to justify yourself which no one honestly cared about before.[/QUOTE]
I did admit I was wrong, I said that in the post you quoted. What the hell are you on about?
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499805]Don't worry mate, the people here can't seem to grasp the concept of 'opinions'[/QUOTE]
Neither do you, opinion is not some magic word meaning you can throw offensive and misinformation around without it hurting anyone or being wrong.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499585]I don't think i'll bother discussing transgenderism again until scientists discover everything there is to know about it... [/QUOTE]
Fun fact: scientists DID discover pretty much everything there is to know, and we have been trying to tell you (and others) most of those facts for the last 14 pages...
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499637]
So you're saying a male to female transgender just magically grows these?[/QUOTE]
Yes I am growing these.
Not magically though. That's a wanted effect of the Hormone Therapy.
It's actually the same hormone that causes breasts and mammary glands to grow in cis-girls during regular puberty.
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34499819]It's one thing to be wrong, but it's another thing to be wrong and throw around this wrong information like it's fact.[/QUOTE]
Stop acting like you're perfect. There's no such thing.
It's like no one here can deal with imperfection.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499833]I did admit I was wrong, I said that in the post you quoted. What the hell are you on about?[/QUOTE]
then why in Jew god's name are you still talking? You have nothing to gain from bringing up arguments in your defence if you've already admitted you're wrong, so why do you continue to post in here for evidently no reason?
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;34499890]then why in Jew god's name are you still talking? You have nothing to gain from bringing up arguments in your defence if you've already admitted you're wrong, so why do you continue to post in here for evidently no reason?[/QUOTE]
That was regarding the mammary gland thing, everything else i've talked about is a matter of opinion
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499873]Stop acting like you're perfect. There isn't such a thing.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying that I'm perfect.
I'm saying that you have been constantly toting opinions around and stating them as if they were facts.
An opinion stops being an opinion when facts contradict them.
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34499785]Ignorance is part of the problem.[/QUOTE]
I'm still curious either way, could you be as kind as to tell me how or why an 11 year old has one?
I find it wrong they are getting a fucking 11 YEAR OLD institutionalized, though.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499805]Don't worry mate, the people here can't seem to grasp the concept of 'opinions'[/QUOTE]
Doesn't matter to me.
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34499915]I'm not saying that I'm perfect.
I'm saying that you have been constantly toting opinions around and stating them as if they were facts.
[/QUOTE]
Example?
[QUOTE=Protection;34499938]I'm still curious either way, could you be as kind as to tell me how or why an 11 year old has one?
I find it wrong they are getting a fucking 11 YEAR OLD institutionalized, though.
[/QUOTE]
I already said, at 11 you clearly understood what gender you were, same as me. Evidently this kid didn't feel the same way, and she wanted to do something about it
[QUOTE=Protection;34499938]I'm still curious either way, could you be as kind as to tell me how or why an 11 year old has one?
[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/228219/gender-identity[/url]
"Basic gender identity—the concept “I am a boy” or “I am a girl”—is generally established by the time the child reaches the age of three and is extremely difficult to modify thereafter."
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499909]That was regarding the mammary gland thing, everything else i've talked about is a matter of opinion[/QUOTE]
yeah, uneducated opinions with a lack of basis. I'm doing work in uni on gender politics in english lit, so I've researched a lot about this, and there are genuine transgenders posting in this thread. If these people of repute are telling you facts and you're ignoring them and attacking a strawman about 'oh but what if I didn't know' - when we've already said that's an honest mistake, then you should probably stop posting
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34499972][url]http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/228219/gender-identity[/url]
"Basic gender identity—the concept “I am a boy” or “I am a girl”—is generally established by the time the child reaches the age of three and is extremely difficult to modify thereafter."[/QUOTE]
This is why psychological counselling, while perhaps effective at masking emotional problems associated with GID, does nothing for the underlying problem - wrong body
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;34499961]I already said, at 11 you clearly understood what gender you were, same as me. Evidently this kid didn't feel the same way, and she wanted to do something about it[/QUOTE]
Do something about it at 11? Shit son, that's some fucking hardcore shit.
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34499972][url]http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/228219/gender-identity[/url]
"Basic gender identity—the concept “I am a boy” or “I am a girl”—is generally established by the time the child reaches the age of three and is extremely difficult to modify thereafter."[/QUOTE]
Still curious as to how THIS kid "established" the gender identity that it has now. I mean, how. I'm not asking "oh hurr durr what in the fuck is a gender identity durr im so fukkin ignorant omfg hold my hand"
[QUOTE=Protection;34500077]Do something about it at 11? Shit son, that's some fucking hardcore shit.
Still curious as to how THIS kid "established" the gender identity that it has now. I mean, how. I'm not asking "oh hurr durr what in the fuck is a gender identity durr im so fukkin ignorant omfg hold my hand"[/QUOTE]
best to start as early as possible, so the kid can develop as the gender they identify as
as for the second bit, you had established your gender identity by 11, it's just that since it was the same as your birth sex it was never really an issue
[QUOTE=Protection;34500077]
Still curious as to how THIS kid "established" the gender identity that it has now.[/QUOTE]
Gender identity is established by three years of age, if you had bothered to read the sentence
and lol, the wrong gendered pronoun has now devolved into "it"
[QUOTE=RobbL;34499955]Example?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=RobbL;34485653]If a cock goes about nesting on eggs that doesn't make it a hen/female, It's still a cock/male.
Sex is a purely functional thing. Being a male is down to having male reproductive organs, being a female is down to having female reproductive organs.
It's got nothing to do with what gender you are psychologically.
And if you're a male you're a he, and if you're a female you're a she.
That's the logical way of looking at it.
Imo, calling people bigots for referring to transgenders by their sex and not their gender and getting deeply offended by it just seems to me to imply a degree of self-importance.[/QUOTE]Calling someone who identifies themselves as a woman a man when you know of their gender identity is offensive. Nobody was arguing that people who refer to someone by their sex with no knowledge of the fact that they are trangendered are offensive and it is silly to assume that they are.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34486301]It's nothing like that. Like I said before, 'he' or 'she' are not derogatory terms by anyone's definition.
And don't mention that It's about context.
No one uses the words 'he' or 'she' to offend anyone, you'd have to imply they are bad things to be, and no one's done that either. Now 'nigger' implys inferiority and refers to deep rooted prejudice and discrimination, where as 'he' 'she' 'him' 'her' don't.
Whether you refer to someone by their gender or by their sex is entirely personal preferrence, there are no official standards regarding that.
Don't take the moral highground so you can justify everything you say as being right.
It's a matter of opinion. Neither of us is more bigoted than the other here.[/QUOTE]
This is entirely wrong. People have and do use the words "he and she" to offend people. Especially those who oppose the transgendered. With prior knowledge of someone's gender identity referring to the actual person by there biological sex is offensive. The only time it isn't offensive is if you are referring their biological sex by their biological sex, not the actual person.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34498783]Before I finish with this thread (It's getting pretty boring now haha) I just want to give one more opinion on this-
Female-
Has a male to female transgender ever had any of these qualities? No.
Male-
Has a female to male transgender ever had any of these qualities? No.
The thing is, [I]biologically[/I] a transgender will always be their birth sex, and you can't argue with straight-forward science.
However, [I]culturally[/I] a transgender is whatever gender they identify themselves as, and that's where people have been getting mixed up I think.[/QUOTE]
lol
A few of the posts in this thread seem to fit STRAIGHT into theese categories: [url]http://widdershinsgirl.tumblr.com/post/16879610400/types-of-cis-bigots-i-am-quite-tired-of-a-bit-of-a[/url]
[QUOTE=Protection;34500077]
Still curious as to how THIS kid "established" the gender identity that it has now. I mean, how. I'm not asking "oh hurr durr what in the fuck is a gender identity durr im so fukkin ignorant omfg hold my hand"[/QUOTE]
Oh my god did you really refer to her as an it?
Am I being trolled?
[QUOTE=acds;34494381]I know exactly what people think I don't understand, but that is because what people didn't understand is that I was talking [B]factually and scientifically[/B]. You can call yourself a woman and ask others to call you a woman if you want, that's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying that you shouldn't get all pissy that someone uses "he" when from a purely factual standpoint it is correct.
Everyone understood it as "He can't be/want to be/act like/regard himself as a woman because I said so".[/QUOTE]
Please, just stop. You're offending me and all of the trans* people on this forum and everywhere in the world.
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