[QUOTE=RobbL;34501386]A: Everyone was accusing acds of doing exactly that earlier on in the thread and he got completed slated for it. What's with the double standards?
B: I never said transgenders are x or y, at no point in this thread have I insulted them. Obviously if I did, it would be an understandable cause of offense
[/QUOTE]
A: but acds was just being a bit silly and not really approaching the issue with any level of sensitivity, his argument was still genuine. That's the problem, because he meant what he said
B: You've said that they can't grow breasts through hormones, which you obviously hadn't even bothered to research. That's equivalent to me going 'the primary source of income in Wales is from the export of snicker's bars' I have no evidence for that claim and I shouldn't even be attempting to talk on it.
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34501497]What? How is "I'm too lazy to refer to you by your gender that I know you identify by" an excuse?[/QUOTE]
I'm not on about gender dysphoria, just the use of 'it' as a pronoun in general
[QUOTE=RobbL;34501515]I'm not on about gender dysphoria, just the use of 'it' as a pronoun in general[/QUOTE]
You don't use "it" to describe a human being. End of.
You can use it to describe parts of a human being, but not the human being.
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34501497]What? How is "I'm too lazy to refer to you by your gender that I know you identify by" an excuse?[/QUOTE]
Guys, don't be so harsh on RobbL. It obviously doesn't know any better.
Besides, it's right about the laziness part. The 'i' and 't' keys are closer together than the 'h' and 'e' keys, not to mention having to add in an 's'. You spare a lot of time by just calling people 'it'.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34501386]Everyone was accusing acds of doing exactly that earlier on in the thread and he got completed slated for it. What's with the double standards?[/quote]
Except jewdozer is joking whereas some of what acds said is just offensive.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34501386]Calling someone 'it' is usually a result of laziness, not prejudice or discrimination[/QUOTE]
Called anyone it to save time lately?
[QUOTE=RobbL;34501386]Everyone was accusing acds of doing exactly that earlier on in the thread and he got completed slated for it. What's with the double standards?[/QUOTE]
Ask acds [del]him[/del] itself if [del]his[/del] its goal in saying
[QUOTE=acds;34482073]It's a guy. He can live whatever fairy tale he wants, he was born a guy and will always be.[/QUOTE]
was to be deliberately offensive to people.
[del]He's[/del] It's already answered that question in the thread though, and it was no; ∴ comparing Jewdozer to acds would imply Jewdozer actually believed what he said, and comparing acds to Jewdozer would imply that acds was doing it to be funny.
[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;34501543]Ask acds [del]him[/del] itself if [del]his[/del] its goal in saying
was to be deliberately offensive to people.
[del]He's[/del] It's already answered that question in the thread though, and it was no; ∴ comparing Jewdozer to acds would imply Jewdozer actually believed what he said, and comparing acds to Jewdozer would imply that acds was doing it to be funny.[/QUOTE]
Man how much mental and physical energy did you save by using "it"?
This is for science of course.
[QUOTE=PrusseluskenV2;34501617]Ugh
(Not directed at anyone in particular but) I'm legitimately surprised by how some of you act
Call me a whiny moron, but no, I don't like being referred to as male whether you accept that or not. Why do you people insist on just not giving a shit about how people feel and act like a tough fucker because you're too dense to understand people aren't all similar to you?
Is even pretending to care about someone's feelings too hard or something?[/QUOTE]
But don't you see
not having to learn from mistakes is much more important than letting other people actually feel comfortable and welcomed
duh
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;34501508]A: but acds was just being a bit silly and not really approaching the issue with any level of sensitivity, his argument was still genuine. That's the problem, because he meant what he said[/QUOTE]
I think giving honest, harmless, still debated opinions on the controversial issue of gender dysphoria is a bit different to drawing images of extreme violence and racism. And acds was not approaching the issue with any sensitivity? oh yes, it's not as if Jewdozer's images are insensitive or inconsiderate in the slightest
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;34501508]B: You've said that they can't grow breasts through hormones, which you obviously hadn't even bothered to research[/QUOTE]
But that's not flat-out insulting transgenders is it?
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;34501508]That's equivalent to me going 'the primary source of income in Wales is from the export of snicker's bars' [/QUOTE]
OH NO YOU BIGOT DON'T EVER TALK ABOUT WALES AGAIN AGAIN, FROM NOW ON ALL YOUR OPINIONS ARE INVALID AND I'M GOING TO LOOK DOWN ON YOU AS A LESSER BEING
That's basically what you and many others were like towards me regarding the topic here.
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34501497]What? How is "I'm too lazy to refer to you by your gender that I know you identify by" an excuse?
And no it's not "usually a result of laziness". It is almost always an act of demeaning someone, to call them less than human.[/QUOTE]
I don't call people 'it', but there are people who do and who do it mainly because of laziness
[editline]1st February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Metanar;34501541]Except jewdozer is joking whereas some of what acds said is just offensive.[/QUOTE]
Joking or not, since when has that ever made a difference?
[QUOTE=RobbL;34501716]
But that's not flat-out insulting transgenders is it?
OH NO YOU BIGOT DON'T EVER TALK ABOUT WALES AGAIN AGAIN, FROM NOW ON ALL YOUR OPINIONS ARE INVALID AND I'M GOING TO LOOK DOWN ON YOU AS A LESSER BEING
That's basically what you and many others were like towards me regarding the topic here.
[/QUOTE]
I never said it was insulting, I said it was stupid and uneducated. If you state an opinion in a legitimate discussion you ought to have some basis for your argument. noone said you were a lesser being, they just said you should be quiet unless you know what you're talking about. There are tonnes of other threads where you may have an understand, go post in them.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34501716]
I don't call people 'it', but there are people who do and who do it mainly because of laziness[/QUOTE]
Again this is NOT a valid excuse. There is no way using "it" to refer to a person uses less exertion than referring to them like a proper human being. Hell if you REALLY don't want to refer to someone by a gender the very least you can do is refer to them as "that person".
Calling someone "it" is calling someone inhuman.
[QUOTE=PrusseluskenV2;34501617]Ugh
(Not directed at anyone in particular but) I'm legitimately surprised by how some of you act
Call me a whiny moron, but no, I don't like being referred to as male whether you accept that or not. Why do you people insist on just not giving a shit about how people feel and act like a tough fucker because you're too dense to understand people aren't all similar to you?
Is even pretending to care about someone's feelings too hard or something?[/QUOTE]
I hope this isn't aimed at me because at no point have I said anything derogatory about transgenders, and as I've said many times I'm completely fine with them. If a transgender wants to be referred to as a certain gender, I respect that.
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34502062] (...) boy and girl. These words are [B]adjectives[/B],[/QUOTE]
[quote]boy /boi/
[B]Noun[/B]:
A male child or young man.[/quote]
[quote]girl /gərl/
[B]Noun[/B]:
A female child.
A person's daughter, esp. a young one.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34502062]I'm now going to say something that might make some of you mad, but I really want a good explanation if you disagree with me.
What I'm trying to say is that the words that are used to describe someones sex is also used to describe someones gender, words such as male and female or boy and girl. These words are adjectives, which means that they are use to describe an object, or a person in this case. And the general way you describe a person is by appearance, since that is the first attribute you encounter when you meet a person. And for a visual description to be accurate you have to use the right adjectives. And here's where my problem with calling transgender people by their gender rather than their sex comes from, because that wouldn't describe their appearance and might create some confusion in certain situations.
And before you ask, no, I'm not transphobic, and I don't feel that you should take what I'm saying too seriously if you are a person who easily get upset when talking about this subject. Because this is just my opinions that I would like to share and I'm not trying to be hostile.[/QUOTE]
Completely wrong.
He/she are pronouns, not adjectives
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34502062]I'm now going to say something that might make some of you mad, but I really want a good explanation if you disagree with me.
What I'm trying to say is that the words that are used to describe someones sex is also used to describe someones gender, words such as male and female or boy and girl. These words are adjectives, which means that they are use to describe an object, or a person in this case. And the general way you describe a person is by appearance, since that is the first attribute you encounter when you meet a person. And for a visual description to be accurate you have to use the right adjectives. And here's where my problem with calling transgender people by their gender rather than their sex comes from, because that wouldn't describe their appearance and might create some confusion in certain situations.
And before you ask, no, I'm not transphobic, and I don't feel that you should take what I'm saying too seriously if you are a person who easily get upset when talking about this subject. Because this is just my opinions that I would like to share and I'm not trying to be hostile.[/QUOTE]
did you skip over all of the posts explaining that transgender people will look like the sex they want to be
and the posts explaining that nobody is talking about the first time you talk / mention someone, but after you already know their gender and what they preferred to be called
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34502177]My shitty english.[/QUOTE]
Even then it doesn't change the fact that it is offensive to refer to someone as a man if they identify themselves as a woman and you are aware of their gender identity.
You only refer to someone who identifies themselves as a woman but is biologically a man as a man if you are referring to their [B]biological sex[/B] as opposed to the actual person.
[editline]1st February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34502243]Well, this is talking about persons who call don't look like their sex yet. And this is about the first time meeting this person.[/QUOTE]
Like I've said before nobody is going to chastise you for referring to someone by their biological sex if you are unaware of them being transgendered.
It is when you are aware that it becomes offensive.
Speaking of shitty English and particles of speech, transgender is an adjective, not a noun, nor a verb.
"A Transgender", "Transgenders", and "Transgendered" are all improper usages of the word. :eng101:
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;34501168]once again, [b]Jewdozer[/b] does it [I]because[/I] it's offensive, [b]he[/b]'s not a racist or anything himself. You started going off about a subject like this genuinely, that's the big difference[/QUOTE]
hey it's the other kind of pronoun error
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34502355]Well, recently a transgender person here on facepunch became really upset when I referred to her as male, even though I didn't know that this was that sensitive to her. Maybe I'm just generalizing.[/QUOTE]
If you were aware that her gender identity was female when you called her male then of course she would get upset.
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34502379]Also, male and female can both be used as adjectives. But not boy and girl.[/QUOTE]
Oddly enough it kind of works for non-human things though
"a girl cat" doesn't sound very awkward
[QUOTE=Herb;34502334]"Transgendered"[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't that one work fine though? If you are calling someone transgendered you're describing them.
[QUOTE=Red scout?;34482037]Why not? Okay, I have to agree that looney bin might have been a bad choice of words in this situation, but I stand by my point, he should be taken to a mental hospital and have his depression dealth with so that he doesn't go kill himself.[/QUOTE]
Because putting her in mental institutions fixes HER depression.
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34502379]Also, male and female can both be used as adjectives. But not boy and girl.[/QUOTE]
Not many people use those to formally refer to someone.
And if they do in the case of someone who is a transgender person, it is usually something like "Alexander, a male who identifies herself as a female,"
The first part, male, refers to the biological sex while the second part, female, refers to the actual person.
[QUOTE=Onyx3173;34502464]Wouldn't that one work fine though? If you are calling someone transgendered you're describing them.[/QUOTE]
I like this one. It isn't offensive so Zeke et al don't have an excuse to call me a bigot; and it accurately describes them unlike male or female.
[QUOTE=Onyx3173;34502464]Wouldn't that one work fine though? If you are calling someone transgendered you're describing them.[/QUOTE]
The "ed" suffix is unnecessary and turns it into an intransitive verb.
Much like someone is not blacked, gayed, or caucasianed.
[QUOTE=Herb;34502530]The "ed" suffix is unnecessary and turns it into an intransitive verb.
Much like someone is not blacked, gayed, or caucasianed.[/QUOTE]
They became transgendered; you do not become black or gay - you simply are.
[editline].[/editline]
Except in rare situations like the inverse of what happened to michael jackson.
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34502599]People can become gay.[/QUOTE]
No, they discover they were gay all along. Or bisexual.
At least this is what I've been told in every argument I've had with Zeke; so ask him if you want to know more.
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34502496]I like this one. It isn't offensive so Zeke et al don't have an excuse to call me a bigot; and it accurately describes them unlike male or female.[/QUOTE]
oooh, I have et al
classy
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34502615]No, they discover they were gay all along. Or bisexual.
At least this is what I've been told in every argument I've had with Zeke; so ask him if you want to know more.[/QUOTE]
I've heard of rare cases where someone becomes gay later in life.
They don't become gay by choice though, it's something that just happens.
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34502650]Maybe transsexuals were transsexuals all along, but they just discover it?[/QUOTE]
Transgenders were born male or female, and therefore cannot have a "full" gender as transgendered without becoming it by having a sex change op.
They may however, had a different gender identity at birth. I'm not sure if that's the case or not generally though.
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