• German trans girl ‘to be institutionalised’
    892 replies, posted
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34503845]Ohohoh wow. Aren't you the same person who said that it's OK to refer to transgender people as "it"? Oh man what EVER will I do. I lost the respect of the mighty RobbL, beacon of truth.[/QUOTE] Haha fuck no. I only said that the reason some people use 'it' as a pronoun is down moreso to laziness/ignorance rather than prejudice or discrimination. I for one cannot respect shit spreaders.
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34503993]Why do you hate trains?[/QUOTE] Seriously?
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34503976]Because slippery slope arguments are among the lowest form of arguments in existence. Do I need to remind you that it's the same argument a lot of anti-gay marriage people use? "Man if we let those silly gays marry next thing you know people are going to marry dogs and windows."[/QUOTE] I am completely fine with people identifying as animals or marrying windows.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34503998]Haha fuck no. I only said that the reason some people use 'it' as a pronoun is down moreso to laziness/ignorance rather than prejudice or discrimination. I for one cannot respect shit spreaders.[/QUOTE] Seriously you're going with this again? "It" is universally used to state that someone is sub-human when used to refer to a human being. Nobody uses it to make conversation less exerting. It is an incredibly spiteful and offensive thing to refer somebody as.
[QUOTE=somescripter;34503384]I believe Y chromosome is scientific terminology, is it not? Females don't have one, transgender males do.[/QUOTE] Well actually, transgender males dont, transgender females may, but that dosnt make them male.
[QUOTE=nekosune;34504136]Well actually, transgender males dont, transgender females may, but that dosnt make them male.[/QUOTE] He's already been banned, don't try to argue with him or his twisted "logic".
[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;34504144]He's already been banned, don't try to argue with him or his twisted "logic".[/QUOTE] It was an old copy of the page, I got distracted, and 3 pages went by by the time I got back. [editline]2nd February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=RobbL;34503998]Haha fuck no. I only said that the reason some people use 'it' as a pronoun is down moreso to laziness/ignorance rather than prejudice or discrimination. I for one cannot respect shit spreaders.[/QUOTE] To be honest, Compared to some places, I am rather glad that This for lack of a better term, disagreement, is the usual, compared to the usual stuff that is more like somescripter and Bawbag.
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34504032]Seriously you're going with this again? "It" is universally used to state that someone is sub-human when used to refer to a human being. Nobody uses it to make conversation less exerting. It is an incredibly spiteful and offensive thing to refer somebody as.[/QUOTE] Actually, way back in this thread in response to someone saying that calling a transgender by their sex is worse than calling them 'it' I said something like "But calling someone 'it' is dehumanising them" so you can't say I haven't acknowledged that. The thing is, the person using 'it' as a pronoun doesn't nesicarily (sp?) mean to dehumanise anyone, most of the time they use it without thought. Like when watching tv I've heard people refer to a person onscreen as 'it' Seriously get a grip
[QUOTE=RobbL;34504223]Actually, way back in this thread in response to someone saying that calling a transgender by their sex is worse than calling them 'it' I said something like "But calling someone 'it' is dehumanising them" so you can't say I haven't acknowledged that. The thing is, the person using 'it' as a pronoun doesn't nesicarily (sp?) mean to dehumanise anyone, most of the time they use it without thought. Like when watching tv I've heard people refer to a person onscreen as 'it' Seriously get a grip[/QUOTE] In all my life I've never heard anyone refer to a person as "it".
[QUOTE=HorizoN;34504341]In all my life I've never heard anyone refer to a person as "it".[/QUOTE] Im not ruling out that, but the point was that coolaid called me out making a false claim and then slated me for it
[QUOTE=HorizoN;34504341]In all my life I've never heard anyone refer to a person as "it".[/QUOTE] then you should probably get out more often. But in all seriousness, nobody has answered my questions as to what causes GID.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34504439]Im not ruling out that, but the point was that coolaid called me out making a false claim and then slated me for it[/QUOTE] Remember when I said calling someone "it" is extremely offensive and you responded with: [QUOTE=RobbL;34500462]Yes to their face, but not just in referring to someone[/QUOTE] That implies that you agreed that referring to somebody as "it" is offensive. But then you turned around and said it was OK as long as they don't hear you. Disregarding any other cases of referring to someone as "it", it is never OK to refer to someone as "it" because you don't want to refer to them by the gender identity that you are aware they have.
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34504561]Remember when I said calling someone "it" is extremely offensive and you responded with: That implies that you agreed that referring to somebody as "it" is offensive. But then you turned around and said it was OK as long as they don't hear you. Disregarding any other cases of referring to someone as "it", it is never OK to refer to someone as "it" because you don't want to refer to them by the gender identity that you are aware they have.[/QUOTE] Why do you assume that every time I talk about something I'm talking about it in relation to transgenders?
[QUOTE=RobbL;34504634]Why do you assume that every time I talk about something I'm talking about it in relation to transgenders?[/QUOTE] It is a thread about transgendered girl so an easy assumption to make.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34504634]Why do you assume that every time I talk about something I'm talking about it in relation to transgenders?[/QUOTE] Do you really not see the problem with arguing in favor of referring to people as "it" in a thread about a transgender girl being sent to an institution by her abusive father so she can be "normalized"?
[QUOTE=Laferio;34504541]then you should probably get out more often. But in all seriousness, nobody has answered my questions as to what causes GID.[/QUOTE] I answered it a few pages ago "A hormonal inbalance in the womb causing a female brain to form instead of a male one. At least that's what most medical science is currently indicating."
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34504718]Do you really not see the problem with arguing in favor of referring to people as "it" in a thread about a transgender girl being sent to an institution by her abusive father so she can be "normalized"?[/QUOTE] I'm not 'in favour' of calling people 'it', I just said that its not always used with the intent of causing offense. Are you this big of a bullshitter in real life?
[QUOTE=Laferio;34504541]then you should probably get out more often. But in all seriousness, nobody has answered my questions as to what causes GID.[/QUOTE] It was answered a couple times. [QUOTE=QueenSasha24;34504747]I answered it a few pages ago "A hormonal inbalance in the womb causing a female brain to form instead of a male one. At least that's what most medical science is currently indicating."[/QUOTE] If I remember correctly my mom had a hormonal imbalance after I was born. Apparently she produces more testosterone now than estrogen.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34504798]I'm not 'in favour' of calling people 'it', I just said that its not always used with the intent of causing offense. Are you this big of a bullshitter in real life?[/QUOTE] Actually, more often than not, it is. In fact, not once have I heard "It" used to refer to a living thing that isn't dogs, cats, a bear, babies (though even this context seems to be less in vogue from what I've seen), Optimus Prime when he's presenting as an 18-Wheeler, and towards trans people in an antagonistic, derisive manner. I'm not sure how calling a person "it" is ever acceptable, but different strokes I suppose.
[QUOTE=Triumph Forks;34505804]Actually, more often than not, it is. In fact, not once have I heard "It" used to refer to a living thing that isn't dogs, cats, a bear, babies (though even this context seems to be less in vogue from what I've seen), Optimus Prime when he's presenting as an 18-Wheeler, and towards trans people in an antagonistic, derisive manner. I'm not sure how calling a person "it" is ever acceptable, but different strokes I suppose.[/QUOTE] Some agendered/genderless/neutrois people prefer to be called "it". Not the majority, though.
[QUOTE=Upgrade123;34506097]Some agendered/genderless/neutrois people prefer to be called "it". Not the majority, though.[/QUOTE] I don't find that too surprising, given the fluid nature of gender, however my point is that far more often than not it's used in a derogatory or ignorant manner. You could also make a point of saying that not every gender-variant person wants to be called 'she' or 'he', in favour of terms like 'sie', 'zhe', or 'shklee', but that's neither here nor there
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34502355]Well, recently a transgender person here on facepunch became really upset when I referred to her as male, even though I didn't know that this was that sensitive to her. Maybe I'm just generalizing.[/QUOTE] Oh, hello.
[quote] People can become gay.[/quote] [QUOTE=Bawbag;34502615]No, they discover they were gay all along. Or bisexual. [/QUOTE] Same with transgender people... you don't BECOME trans*, you are born this way.
Even though some of this may be a bit late, I still wanna react to it. [QUOTE=somescripter;34503205]They will never be a female unless they: have legitimate breasts (that can milk),[/QUOTE] I have those [QUOTE=somescripter;34503205] have a vagina,[/QUOTE] I will have one quite soon [QUOTE=somescripter;34503205] have periods, and have or atleast had the ability to get pregnant.[/QUOTE] This is utter BS. There are far more women born without ovaries than you can imagine. And without those: no periods. no pregnancy. [QUOTE=somescripter;34503323]Okay then, I add "to not have a Y chromosome" to my list.[/QUOTE] Did anyone happen to read my earlier post about a girl I know born without ovaries? I'm pretty sure the unwanted presence of a Y chromosome is the cause for her condition. [QUOTE=Laferio;34503656]Just out of curiosity... What causes GID?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34503675]It's essentially caused by the same thing that makes a man identify himself as a man or a woman identify herself as a woman.[/QUOTE] The presence or absence of testosterone during a very delicate stage of growth before a child is born. If the childs sex is male, there normally IS some testosterone. If the childs sex is female, there normally isn't. However: not all transgender actually realise that something's "wrong"* with them their entire life. Some become gay or lesbian and are happy that way. Some live their whole life as the sex they're born in and, oddly enough, are happy that way. They may come off as slightly 'different' to others, like for example some women might prefer action movies instead of romance, that kind of stuff. Still the most important point: they're happy. They don't WANT to change their life. Side note: I also happen to know one gay man, who married a woman... and he's happy with her. [QUOTE=HorizoN;34504341]In all my life I've never heard anyone refer to a person as "it".[/QUOTE] What about an unborn child, whose sex or gender you don't know yet? Wouldn't you normally refer to that child as "it" until you know better? Or are they not (yet) a person? [QUOTE=HorizoN;34505718] If I remember correctly my mom had a hormonal imbalance after I was born. Apparently she produces more testosterone now than estrogen.[/QUOTE] If this is true than I guess there's a high probability your next sister will become a transgender man/boy. Still you should NEVER force your sister into male behaviour! (but I guess you knew that?) *I know: poor choice of words...
[quote]some women might prefer action movies instead of romance, that kind of stuff.[/quote] This is my primary issue with trans*, in that I'm not really sure what point you can say that gender roles aren't socially constructed and align with sex and by saying 'well I feel like X gender role so I should change my sex to male, for example' isn't just a unconcious reproduction of sexism for instance that phrase I quoted is like Pastor Bill level 101 sexist bullshit my question is this: why go to the trouble of HRT and surgical alteration to align your gender with a sex when the idea that gender is properly aligned to sex is absolutely rubbish? is it just because it's the status quo and part of feeling like X gender is being treated as though you were physically identifiably part of that gender?
So... wait... I am a sexist because I said "some women like action movies more than romance movies"??? I don't get it.
[QUOTE=Triumph Forks;34505804]I'm not sure how calling a person "it" is ever acceptable, but different strokes I suppose.[/QUOTE] I tend to do it, but not whilst talking to their face. I don't do this because I'm purposely being offensive, I do it more because I'm awfully confused about the technicalities of being able to call someone both a he and a she.
[QUOTE=Contag;34510457] my question is this: why go to the trouble of HRT and surgical alteration to align your gender with a sex when the idea that gender is properly aligned to sex is absolutely rubbish? is it just because it's the status quo and part of feeling like X gender is being treated as though you were physically identifiably part of that gender?[/QUOTE] I would say HRT is worth the trouble, as the general medical consensus, as said on FP over the past couple days at some point, seems to state that trans people do have brain structure of say, a woman while they have the body of a man otherwise. The issue, as well as gender constructs misplacing them as a man and treating them like one and all that, but the bigger issue is their brain is being blasted with testosterone, and their brain is ill equipped to handle it. I don't know the nitty gritty but the end result of this is depression and gender dysphoria. This seems to raise the question of how a trans person would fare in a society where gender is either non-existent, or fluid enough that you can live as you wish. I would say the hormonal issues would still be present but peripheral factors that lead them to harm, abuse, and suicide would be lessened a good deal, as much as this may be getting into pseudo-socio-philosophical fluff [QUOTE=Atlessa;34510536]So... wait... I am a sexist because I said "some women like action movies more than romance movies"??? I don't get it.[/QUOTE] I think it's moreso the idea that transman who lives as ciswomen happily are inclined quirks like enjoying action movies, implying that's an inherently male thing to like shooting and guns and stuff, and is therefore sexist. [QUOTE=Simski;34510632]I tend to do it, but not whilst talking to their face. I don't do this because I'm purposely being offensive, I do it more because I'm awfully confused about the technicalities of being able to call someone both a he and a she.[/QUOTE] This may seem like semantics, but I can understand that line of thinking, speaking of my own confusion getting terms like "transman" and "transwoman" straightened out in my head and how that took a while. But, while it's understandable, it's not something I see as okay. Even using terms like "they" are helpful to keep in mind, and quite valid as a gender-neutral pronoun. Viscerally, "it" is nearly always used to refer to something that's not human/less than human. Though if I was with someone and I heard them referring to a trans person as "it", I'd be quicker to educate them than I would be to condemn them for it.
[QUOTE=Atlessa;34510536]So... wait... I am a sexist because I said "some women like action movies more than romance movies"??? I don't get it.[/QUOTE] Yes, you implied that they were trans*people, as opposed to being biologically female, and having a fucking nebulous gender like every bloody person does implying they're trans* because they like action movies more than romance movies is most definitely sexist as for the 'different brains' [quote]some transgender individuals have the physical brain structures that resemble their desired sex even before hormone treatment[/quote] I don't think gender dysphoria would be an issue in a world where gender isn't linked whatsoever to sex, and is not seen in binary or even discrete terms
[QUOTE=Miskav;34482520]Were you born a jackass?[B] Because if you weren't scum when you were a baby you sure as fuck turned in to it later on in your pathetic existence.[/B][/QUOTE] Hahaha, oh wow.
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