[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;34483242]I'm on here. It's offensive to me as a transgender person to see other transgendered people referred to by their biological sex.
Good enough for ya?[/QUOTE]
In that case, yes you do have just as much right to complain as a black person being offended by "nigger" (I think you should calm down a bit and not give a shit about some words on the internet, but that goes for everyone being offended by something on the web).
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34483605]Never having to see your entire group marginalized with a single word and not understanding what it feels like to see such a thing[/QUOTE]
Oh trust me I've had that plenty, I've just hardened to it in a way that little things like the he and she thing seem fairly mild to me.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34483549]I think you're too easily offended. There's worse things people can do[/QUOTE]
Just because he isn't ruining my life doesn't mean I shouldn't get angry. It's not like I'm flipping my shit, I'm just mildly pissed off.
[editline]31st January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;34483633]Oh trust me I've had that plenty, I've just hardened to it in a way that little things like the he and she thing seem fairly mild to me.[/QUOTE]
Tell me about it, then.
[QUOTE=acds;34483390]Just to set things straight and not leave any doubts: No I'm not some kind of neo-Nazi that hates any non-macho Aryan race members (like some seem to think). You can do whatever the fuck you want with your body and life (well unless you damage others).
I was arguing about what someone technically is and isn't, I wouldn't go up to the child in question and tell them "You're not a she".
Just clearing it up because if you leave stuff unanswered someone always gets weird ideas.[/QUOTE]
in the most retarded, condescending, assholeish manner possible
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;34482974]If you call someone a fag, that is a derogatory term. Calling a transgender male or whatever you call them a he instead of a she is like calling a Scottish person British, they're both correct terms for the person.[/QUOTE]
"I wouldn't be offended by someone referring to me by a different pronoun, and I can't comprehend it being offensive, so it must not be offensive"
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;34482997]But does it really matter here on this forum, if I was around the person I would refer to them by gender to make them comfortable, but I'm not degrading that person if while talking about them refer to them in their biological sense.[/QUOTE]
So, you're perfectly fine with talking badly about people behind their back?
I have some gossip about your mother, I'll meet you by the stairs after history class
giggle giggle
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;34483550]I guess I can sympathise, it's just one of those little prejudices that I have that take a while to iron out.[/QUOTE]
Good! Seriously, good.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;34483633]Oh trust me I've had that plenty[/QUOTE]
mind sharing or no
(it doesn't invalidate what you say if you choose not to)
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;34483643]
Tell me about it, then.[/QUOTE]
I really don't want to
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;34483550]I guess I can sympathise, it's just one of those little prejudices that I have that take a while to iron out.[/QUOTE]
Good on ya for acknowledging it.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34483309]Apparently the girl wasn't suicidal until the father prevented her from continuing with hormone therapy or something, if I can find where I read it again I'll post it
[/QUOTE]
I can confirm this being true, though I can't quote any sources either -.-
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;34483414]I think it is more like saying "god doesn't exist with a christian around, which quite frankly I'm not offended by at all.[/QUOTE]
[quote="Noreaus"]
Nope.
WPATH standards of care, widely accepted as the standard for treatment of trans people:
[quote]“Sex Reassignment is Effective and Medically Indicated in Severe GID. In
persons diagnosed with transsexualism or profound GID, sex reassignment
surgery, along with hormone therapy and real-life experience, is a treatment
that has proven to be effective. Such a therapeutic regimen, when prescribed
or recommended by qualified practitioners, is medically indicated and
medically necessary. Sex reassignment is not “experimental”, “investigative”,
“elective”, “cosmetic”, or optional in any meaningful sense. It constitutes very
effective and appropriate treatment for transsexualism or profound GID.”[/quote]
Also, take note:
[quote]“Severe Gender Dysphoria cannot be alleviated by any conventional
psychiatric treatment, whether it be psychoanalytic therapy, eclectic
psychiatric treatment, aversion treatment, or by any standard psychiatric
drugs.”[/quote]
That's from Green (1999); Report cited in Bellinger v Bellinger, Court of Appeal, Judgement, July 17th 2001
Or, how about:
[quote]Sex reassignment plays an undisputed role in
contributing toward favourable outcomes, and comprises Real Life
Experience, legal name and sex change on identity documents, as well as
medically necessary hormone treatment, counselling, psychotherapy, and
other medical procedures… Medically necessary sex reassignment
procedures also include complete hysterectomy, bilateral mastectomy, chest
reconstruction or augmentation as appropriate to each patient (including
breast prostheses if necessary), genital reconstruction (by various techniques
which must be appropriate to each patient, including, for example, skin flap
hair removal, penile and testicular prostheses, as necessary), facial hair
removal, and certain facial plastic reconstruction as appropriate to the
patient… These medical procedures and treatment protocols are not
experimental: decades of both clinical experience and medical research show
they are essential to achieving well-being for the transsexual patient[/quote]
That's Whittle et al; WPATH Clarification on Medical Necessity of Treatment, Sex Reassignment, and Insurance Coverage in the USA (2008).
Or, try:
[quote]“To require the condition to go untreated until it had caused an additional
severe illness disregarded the duty on Health Authorities to prevent illnesses
and constituted inhuman or degrading treatment.”[/quote]
(This refers to waiting until trans people are goddamn suicidal before treating.) That's from R v North West Lancashire Health Authority ex parte A, D & G (1998).
I got a bunch of these! You are wrong.
Edit: cleaning up my citations.
[/quote]
[quote="Noreaus"]
I'm trying my best :smith:
Regarding intrinsic brain chemistry of trans people (and thus, trying to wrench the discussion back to the topic at hand), the jury is basically still out on this. Though I'm sure somebody can find some research supporting this idea, there is plenty of research to show that there is no significant difference. From 2011, a very dense report from Stockholm found that:
[quote]The present study does not support the dogma that MtF-TR have atypical sex dimorphism in the brain but confirms the previously reported sex differences in structural volumes, gray, and WM fractions[/quote]
The data itself is dense as hell and I can't vouch for its rigour, but I recall hearing about this when it came out. It isn't a blow to trans people to show that there isn't atyical sex dimorphism. The issue with medicalisation is that while on the one hand it legitimizes the condition to those who may otherwise think that it simply doesn't exist, it also provides ammunition for those who believe it to be a mental illness.
Edit: Forgot to cite. Ivanka Savic and Stefan Arver "Sex Dimorphism of the Brain in Male-to-Female Transsexuals" Cerebral Cortex November 2011, if anybody wonders.
[/quote]
Go fuck your prejudice.
If someone knows their gender is different from their sex, just let them make the change.
But only if they're [B]absolutely positive[/B] of the difference.
Gonna repost this
[quote] how i found out my sexuality
early 7th grade has got to be the biggest event in my life. one day, i looked in the mirror and felt...different. emotions came onto me, dreams, nightmares, and so much regret. i couldn't figure it out. why i didnt feel like....me anymore. when i first learned the words gay and lesbian, i thought maybe i was gay...but no that wasn't it. 8th grade started my depression became worse. i ended up being suicidal and felt like hurting myself. it finally became a serious problem to the point when i picked up that knife...confused even more, i started denying my sexuality. i kept looking and searching the internet of what is this feeling. the term came up...everything that has matched...transgendered. no, it wasn't true. i remembered backing away from my computer and crying hard. i couldn't believe it. im...a boy and i knew it. its true, thats how i felt, thats why my mind was so confused. i knew my parents could never, EVER accept me. i grabbed that razor blade and slowly took the pain away...god it felt like it was helping me calm down. months past, and i had an arm full of cuts...but it didn't stop my mind from telling me im a male...thats the final point when the word "suicide" came into my mind. i grabbed the Tylenol pills and slowly put out 7 of them...then...
*blackout*
i woke up the next morning in the hospital next to my crying mother. i have been told i overdosed and passed out. i was lucky enough to have been rushed to the hospital. now, i was being sentenced to a mental hospital where i will stay there for a week. when i came out of there i felt better, people actually understood me. however...i was still in the closet....
months passed and being stuck in the closet made me seem weaker than ever. after the argument with my family i couldn't handle the pressure and thats when i stepped into the freeway....
i realized i was very very VERY lucky it was only a hit on the knee. i finally realize AFTER coming out of the mental hospital again, i needed to tell my parents before this continues.
September 23, 2010. i met with the LAUSD school therapist that works with all the LGBT students around the school district. my parents and i came in and now, it was time
"mom, dad, i need to tell you something. im not who you think i was" i explained everything that has been happening "so i found out that...im a transgendered male."
-silence-
my mom and dad looked so shocked that the therapist asked me to wait outside so she can talk to them
-half an hour later-
"Emily, your father and i....we cannot accept this" my heart dropped...i felt like i was going to cry, my throat squeezed tightly... "its because...this isn't who you are, please dont do this. we might accept you if you're lesbian but-" "SHUT THE FUCK UP! I CANT BELIEVE THIS! you're my parents. how could you not accept me?! i cant control who i am! why cant you just accept it!!!" and i ran out crying.
it wasn't until the therapist told me i need to give my parents time, she said she'll talk to them about LGBT people.
today, my parents still dont accept me, but at least im not kicked out.
-this story is for all of you to see how i came out and hopefully other peoples stories will make the homophobes realize that its difficult being different...gay, lesbian, bisexual, or being transgendered. how hard it is to be accepted, how our lives can be threatening. how it affects your life too.
one day, discrimination will end. once and for all. [/quote]
This guy is the best friend I could ever have, and I never once have looked at him as a girl
[QUOTE=StealthArcher;34483731]Go fuck your prejudice.[/QUOTE]
It's wasn't prejudice, prejudice would have been hating people for being transgendered
Anyway I don't see why people care so much about this shit. I mean, why can't you just let them do what they want and humor them so that they don't kill themselves, like so many transgendered people do.
[QUOTE=acds;34482073]It's a guy. He can live whatever fairy tale he wants, he was born a guy and will always be.[/QUOTE]
Please fall off a walkway into a large trash compactor.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;34483550]I guess I can sympathise, it's just one of those little prejudices that I have that take a while to iron out.[/QUOTE]
Non-sarcastic gold medal
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;34483778]Anyway I don't see why people care so much about this shit. I mean, why can't you just let them do what they want and humor them so that they don't kill themselves, like so many transgendered people do.[/QUOTE]
part of the reason is because people seem to see cases like this as PARENTS FORCE DRASTIC SURGERY ONTO MINOR WHO IS TOO YOUNG TO CONSENT OR UNDERSTAND WHAT IS HAPPENING AT ALL or something
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;34483778]Anyway I don't see why people care so much about this shit. I mean, why can't you just let them do what they want and humor them so that they don't kill themselves, like so many transgendered people do.[/QUOTE]
Probably because people just can't understand it or are ignorant of what causes it, hell it was only a few months ago that I thought it was a choice.
Wow, I didn't think this would turn into such a raging discussion.
Genuinely surprised, but I think it's a good thing at the same time. It's nice to see a little bit of variety on FP compared to the usual uniform agreements.
Every time someone says pa[i]rents[/i] it shows up on the ticker making me thing I've been quoted.
As for the actual debate, seeing as the mother has custody, shouldn't it be her say? Or did I read the article incorrectly?
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34483854]Most if not all the debate has been centered around the definition of gender. Rather than the hate of the transgender.[/QUOTE]
Which is a lot better then some places, reddit even has a subreddit named /r/beatingtrannies and one named /r/trannywatch
[editline]31st January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=ewitwins;34483871]As for the actual debate, seeing as the mother has custody, shouldn't it be her say? Or did I read the article incorrectly?[/QUOTE]
the father got some easilly convinced official in the Youth office to step in about this.
[QUOTE=acds;34482073]It's a guy. He can live whatever fairy tale he wants, he was born a guy and will always be.[/QUOTE]
dude
[U][B]what
[/B][/U]
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;34483594]I don't think anyone can reasonably make such a claim until they've been on the receiving end of it.[/QUOTE]
What? Being called a 'he' when physically you are, but psychologically you're a 'she'? Nope. Now if there was an extremist group preaching hatred and violence against trangenders I could understand you being offended, but otherwise it just seems a bit pedantic. The main reason someone would call a transgender by their sex rather than gender in the first place would do so because of misunderstanding or quick judgement, but being offended by misunderstanding is a misunderstanding in itself. It's hypocrisy. I have a feeling I went off on a bit of a tangent, but blame that on the beer i've been drinking.
This story made me sad, then sick.
Still it's nice to see that the majority of facepunch understand, at least to some extent.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34483902]What? Being called a 'he' when physically you are, but psychologically you're a 'she'? Nope. Now if there was an extremist group preaching hatred and violence against trangenders I could understand you being offended, but otherwise it just seems a bit pedantic. The main reason someone would call a transgender by their sex rather than gender in the first place would do so because of misunderstanding or quick judgement, but being offended by misunderstanding is a misunderstanding in itself. It's hypocrisy. I have a feeling I went off on a bit of a tangent, but blame that on the beer i've been drinking.[/QUOTE]
Identifying someone based on their gender feels far more polite and correct than identifying someone based on their sex, wouldn't you think?
[editline]31st January 2012[/editline]
That's why it's called "gender [B]identity[/B]"
[QUOTE=RobbL;34483902]What? Being called a 'he' when physically you are, but psychologically you're a 'she'? Nope. Now if there was an extremist group preaching hatred and violence against trangenders I could understand you being offended, but otherwise it just seems a bit pedantic. The main reason someone would call a transgender by their sex rather than gender in the first place would do so because of misunderstanding or quick judgement, but being offended by misunderstanding is a misunderstanding in itself. It's hypocrisy. I have a feeling I went off on a bit of a tangent, but blame that on the beer i've been drinking.[/QUOTE]
Using the wrong pronoun on purpose is extremely hateful. You can't pass it off as saving time/effort or anything, it's just blatant bigotry.
Imagine calling a disabled person an "it". That's essentially what you're doing here
[QUOTE=ewitwins;34483950]Identifying someone based on their gender feels far more polite and correct than identifying someone based on their sex, wouldn't you think?
[editline]31st January 2012[/editline]
That's why it's called "gender [B]identity[/B]"[/QUOTE]
Yes it's more polite, but I wouldn't say the contrary is all that offensive
[QUOTE=RobbL;34483993]Yes it's more polite, but I wouldn't say the contrary is all that offensive[/QUOTE]
The person taking offense is the only one qualified to judge the statement's offensiveness
[QUOTE=Atlascore;34483980]Male and female aren't insults though, they're ancient words that no one has used an as insult.
Until now apparently.[/QUOTE]
They are to transgendered people.
It's not an insult to Dave the secret pedophile down the street, but it IS an insult if he's also transgendered.
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