• German trans girl ‘to be institutionalised’
    892 replies, posted
[QUOTE=RobbL;34484380]I don't know if anyone else's definition is the same, but if it's got a penis it should generally be referred to as a he, and if it's got a vagina it should generally be referred to as a she. Unless a transgender has personally asked to be called a 'he' or 'she' I don't really see the problem. End of.[/QUOTE] Well, you'd be right for about 99.5% of the children born (yes, that is an accurate number based on recent scientific insights) The "problem" is that the child in this case HAS asked to be called a "she" even though they happen to have a penis.
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34484479]Not really, I rather think that just because they are identifying as a member of the other gender doesn't make them a part of it. But if they change their gender they will be a part of it and thus I would identify them a such.[/QUOTE] Gender is a social construct, sex is a biological one.
She claims she's a girl, so just give her what she wants. Let her get the op, hormone therapy, all that jazz. Also, give the deadbeat dad the finger, if he can't handle accept her as his own he shouldn't be able to affect her in any way.
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34484485]Half wrong actually. Their sex is male while their gender is female. And vice versa.[/QUOTE] yes i know, but he's still fucking wrong
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34484479]Not really, I rather think that just because they are identifying as a member of the other gender doesn't make them a part of it. But if they change their gender they will be a part of it and thus I would identify them a such.[/QUOTE] I'd like to correct you there. You cannot change your gender, you can only change your sex. (gender is in your head, sex is in your pants (mostly)) Also I'd like you to know that doing so takes LOOOOTS of time, and do you think it would make life easier for me if, in the meantime, people would consider me female despite my having male genitalia? You bet it would. Or to be more accurate: it DOES.
[QUOTE=TestECull;34484520]She claims she's a girl, so just give her what she wants. Let her get the op, hormone therapy, all that jazz. Also, give the deadbeat dad the finger, if he can't handle accept her as his own he shouldn't be able to affect her in any way.[/QUOTE] The thing is, at that age, she wont even be getting hormone therapy (which is a good thing) what she will be getting is puberty blockers, until therapists decide she is mature enough to know what she wishes, then she will either get hormones or just be taken off the blockers. In other news, the petition has now gone over 2000 signatures.
[QUOTE=Negrul1;34484531]yes i know, but he's still fucking wrong[/QUOTE] In the end performing surgery to match someone's sex with their gender is much easier and less traumatizing than trying to "correct" someone's gender.
[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;34484566]In the end performing surgery to match someone's sex with their gender is much easier and less traumatizing than trying to "correct" someone's gender.[/QUOTE] Many psychologists agree that "correcting" someones gender, is the same as "correcting" someones sexuallity,it doesn't work and just represses the feelings, which can obviously be very damaging to a person.
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34484618]Gender is both.[/QUOTE] In the context of transgendered people, it is not both, it is the psycological gender, which can't be changed.
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34484479]Not really, I rather think that just because they are identifying as a member of the other gender doesn't make them a part of it. But if they change their gender they will be a part of it and thus I would identify them a such.[/QUOTE] Hey, you're free to think like that; just know that it is discrimination, and is equivalent to saying "I hate those damned niggers" and "Fuck them fucking faggots"
[QUOTE=Metanar;34482182]Let me rephrase this in a way that is actually true: [I]Absent[/I] father expects child to conform to gender roles enforced by society and is shocked when the child doesn't fit with this oppressive system and tries to have the child sectioned. In other news the father was an asshole and that's why his wife wanted to divorce him.[/QUOTE] To be honest the source seems to be strongly biased and probably tries to paint the father in a completely different light than he is. We know for certainty that the parents are divorced but not much beyond that. It's certainly possible that the child was pressured by the mother into this role. Also eleven is far far too young. If the kid was at least around fifteen I'd be neutral on the case. But considering the kid is only eleven, I'd say I'm not surprised that the father is trying to step in. It's completely possible he was barred from stepping in earlier.
[QUOTE=Atlessa;34484555]I'd like to correct you there. You cannot change your gender, you can only change your sex. (gender is in your head, sex is in your pants (mostly)) Also I'd like you to know that doing so takes LOOOOTS of time, and do you think it would make life easier for me if, in the meantime, people would consider me female despite my having male genitalia? You bet it would. Or to be more accurate: it DOES.[/QUOTE] Not exactly, you can change yourself to look like the opposite sex, but you could never be the opposite sex without changing your genetics.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;34484659]To be honest the source seems to be strongly biased and probably tries to paint the father in a completely different light than he is. We know for certainty that the parents are divorced but not much beyond that. It's certainly possible that the child was pressured by the mother into this role. Also eleven is far far too young. If the kid was at least around fifteen I'd be neutral on the case. But considering the kid is only eleven, I'd say I'm not surprised that the father is trying to step in. It's completely possible he was barred from stepping in earlier.[/QUOTE] it has been stated that the father is the one TRYIGN to get the kid into an institution, not therapy to see if this is what they want, but an institution, also many transgender people know that they are the wrong sex years before they even turn 11, and what would be going on is the child would be put on puberty blockers until a therapist decides they are mature enough to see if that child needs hormones, the father is basically deciding that he dosnt want to take even the chance the child is transgender, and wishes to force her into male role
[QUOTE=wraithcat;34484659] Also eleven is far far too young. If the kid was at least around fifteen I'd be neutral on the case. But considering the kid is only eleven, I'd say I'm not surprised that the father is trying to step in. It's completely possible he was barred from stepping in earlier.[/QUOTE] The problem with this kind of thinking is the longer you wait the more difficult it becomes to transition between a sex change.
[QUOTE=nekosune;34484718]it has been stated that the father is the one TRYIGN to get the kid into an institution, not therapy to see if this is what they want, but an institution, also many transgender people know that they are the wrong sex years before they even turn 11, and what would be going on is the child would be put on puberty blockers until a therapist decides they are mature enough to see if that child needs hormones, the father is basically deciding that he dosnt want to take even the chance the child is transgender, and wishes to force her into male role[/QUOTE] To be honest institution tends to mean therapy in most cases. Aka identify if there is a problem and then attempt to solve it. The father is probably woried about the influence of the mother and wants her out of the equation at least for a short time. Also there's certain legal requirements on them (i germany quite a lot of them) so he can't just send the kid to a REALISE WHO YOU ARE CAMP or something. Instead a place with normal therapists.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;34484757]To be honest institution tends to mean therapy in most cases. Aka identify if there is a problem and then attempt to solve it. The father is probably woried about the influence of the mother and wants her out of the equation at least for a short time. Also there's certain legal requirements on them (i germany quite a lot of them) so he can't just send the kid to a REALISE WHO YOU ARE CAMP or something. Instead a place with normal therapists.[/QUOTE] The problem there is, Berlin has the only institution meant to try and 'cure' Transgender people, the kind that tries to push away from feminine stuff, concentrate on male, etc.
I wonder what must be going through that guys head, "I'm a girl, no wait, I have a penis.....whatever I'm still a girl." :V. I guess it depends on what society allows a female to be defined as. For me, it depends on the physical makeup of your body. I wouldn't call a transgender man a woman, rather I would call them a transvestite.
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34484618]Gender is both.[/QUOTE] See, THAT is exactly the "problem" with trans* people their gender (what they feel in their head/heart/sould) does not match what they have in their pants/genes. Understanding the difference between gender and sex is the first (and most important?) step in understanding WHAT gender dysphoria IS.
[QUOTE=Atlessa;34484906]See, THAT is exactly the "problem" with trans* people their gender (what they feel in their head/heart/sould) does not match what they have in their pants/genes. Understanding the difference between gender and sex is the first (and most important?) step in understanding WHAT gender dysphoria IS.[/QUOTE] Tell me, what is a persons gender based upon?
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;34484900]I wonder what must be going through that guys head, "I'm a girl, no wait, I have a penis.....whatever I'm still a girl." :V. I guess it depends on what society allows a female to be defined as. For me, it depends on the physical makeup of your body. I wouldn't call a transgender man a woman, rather I would call them a transvestite.[/QUOTE] Transvestites are something totally different, they are people who still consider themselves male , just like dressing up in women's clothes (or some the other way around). transgendered people mentally, have a different gender to thier sex. And defining people by their sex is quite narrow minded, especially considering there is plenty of genetic conditions where people can have XXX chromosomes, or XY and look female, or XX and look male.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;34484900]I wonder what must be going through that guys head, "I'm a girl, no wait, I have a penis.....whatever I'm still a girl." :V. I guess it depends on what society allows a female to be defined as. For me, it depends on the physical makeup of your body. I wouldn't call a transgender man a woman, rather I would call them a transvestite.[/QUOTE] a transvestite is a man who wears womens clothing, transgender is when someone feels that their biological sex does not fit their gender.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;34484957]Tell me, what is a persons gender based upon?[/QUOTE] you could, you know, read the thread properly
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;34484957]Tell me, what is a persons gender based upon?[/QUOTE] Gender is mental, what they know, and feel they are.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;34484957]Tell me, what is a persons gender based upon?[/QUOTE] It's based upon what they mentally perceive themselves as. Someone's sex is what they physically are. Gender is mental.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;34484757]To be honest institution tends to mean therapy in most cases.[/QUOTE] Exactly as you said "in most cases". However in THIS case the institution in question IS KNOWN for not even BEGINNING to try and understand the child. They will force it to behave like boy that age "always do" (we all know there's differences even among boys as to what they do at that age, don't we?) I (and the state of germany) totally agree that 11 is too young to begin hormone therapy etc. But it is the usual procedure to give puberty blockers, talk to the child about how they think, and make ABSOLUTELY SURE before letting puberty happen, one way or another.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;34484659]To be honest the source seems to be strongly biased and probably tries to paint the father in a completely different light than he is. We know for certainty that the parents are divorced but not much beyond that. It's certainly possible that the child was pressured by the mother into this role. Also eleven is far far too young. If the kid was at least around fifteen I'd be neutral on the case. But considering the kid is only eleven, I'd say I'm not surprised that the father is trying to step in. It's completely possible he was barred from stepping in earlier.[/QUOTE] Eleven is too young you say? Tell me, when you were eleven, did you know if you were a boy or girl?
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34485006]What they have between their legs.[/QUOTE] Have you been listening to anything anybody has said?
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34485006]What they have between their legs.[/QUOTE] Are you just feigning ignorance? I think you've been corrected enough times to know better.
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34485006]What they have between their legs.[/QUOTE] That, as has been stated several times, is a person's sex, not gender.
[QUOTE=acds;34482073]It's a guy. He can live whatever fairy tale he wants, he was born a guy and will always be.[/QUOTE] I really hate people like you. Like, to the point I'd actually spit in your face based on your ignorant opinion alone.
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