[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48544581]Not "anybody." They do mental health checks (aka have you been in a crazy house before) and criminal background checks.
[editline]26th August 2015[/editline]
Watch out guys! It's the grammar police!
Seriously, he makes a very good point and this is all you can pick to call out? You know he's right I guess.[/QUOTE]
They do the mental background check if the mental health records are released to the NICS database. Most states don't release them. At all
[QUOTE=Scot;48544580]Funny this is coming from someone who mixes up their there and they're[/QUOTE]
<logical, raw and expressed opinion with their views>
"haha wow you spelt words wrong"
Okay dude, just keep it going.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;48544603]They do the mental background check if the mental health records are released to the NICS database. Most states don't release them. At all[/QUOTE]
Well that is part of the mental health issue that needs to be solved. That isn't anything on how gun sales are done.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48544516]The gun violence problem in America is not caused by guns, nor will it be solved by a ban on guns. This has been very well demonstrated. These killings didn't occur because the shooter had a gun, it occurred because he's a nutcase and the mental health situation in the US is fucking dreadful. I'm not even going to get into this discussion with you, though - this is my first and last post in this thread.[/QUOTE]
Why do people always go straight to the 'mental illness' excuse, especially when they know nothing about the perpetrator? Is being mentally ill somehow a prerequisite for being able to commit violent crime?
A vast majority of violent crime is committed by people who aren't mentally ill.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;48544614]Why do people always go straight to the 'mental illness' excuse, especially when they know nothing about the perpetrator? Is being mentally ill somehow a prerequisite for being able to commit violent crime?
A vast majority of violent crime is committed by people who aren't mentally ill.[/QUOTE]
I can agree with the last part. Most violent crime/murders in the US are really just gang and drug related.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48544609]Well that is part of the mental health issue that needs to be solved. That isn't anything on how gun sales are done.[/QUOTE]
It really is. Not that it matters. Private gun sales are allowed in 40 states, anyway
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48544609]Well that is part of the mental health issue that needs to be solved. That isn't anything on how gun sales are done.[/QUOTE]
Yes it is. It's on the non-releasing of mental records which is part of the gun sale problem. Your taking a serious subject and trying to water it down like it's a simple fix.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;48544624]It really is.[/QUOTE]
It isn't the dealer's fault that mental health records aren't release by hospitals. That info needs to be made available to the FFL process. The FFL process [B]asks for it.[/B] But they are not given it.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;48544635]or just buying them from other people?
you have this stupid way of thinking that makes you believe all guns used in crime are somehow magical "bad" guns that were stolen. get over the fact that the "gun control" in the us is completely, entirely useless and doesn't work one bit. running a background check on people who want to buy them legally in a store only hinders those who do it legally through stores. you guys need a register and a good way to know what people own them, instead of just going "omg muh 2nd amendment commies!!!!!!!!!" and thinking you're better off stacking them inside your garage when someone says a much stricter law is needed[/QUOTE]
Buying them from other people without doing the FFL paperwork is illegal in most states.
What I've never understood is that more states don't do what Illinois does and require that you have a Firearms ID Card in order to purchase them.
You have a background check, you have to take a test and basically prove that you know what you're doing and you're going to be safe. The only way to fail getting a FOID is by fucking up monumentally or having a criminal history (see: you can't purchase firearms if you're a criminal in a majority of states anyways). That and having a waiting period.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48544581]
Watch out guys! It's the grammar police!
Seriously, he makes a very good point and this is all you can pick to call out? You know he's right I guess.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Levelog;48544595]Oh my, a post that has absolutely nothing to do with grammar is definitely invalidated by mixing up there and they're. Oh wait, no it isn't.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SirDavid255;48544608]<logical, raw and expressed opinion with their views>
"haha wow you spelt words wrong"
Okay dude, just keep it going.[/QUOTE]
I just think that if you can't string a coherent sentence together maybe you shouldn't be walking around with a gun.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48544642]What I've never understood is that more states don't do what Illinois does and require that you have a Firearms ID Card in order to purchase them.
You have a background check, you have to take a test and basically prove that you know what you're doing and you're going to be safe. The only way to fail getting a FOID is by fucking up monumentally or having a criminal history (see: you can't purchase firearms if you're a criminal in a majority of states anyways). That and having a waiting period.[/QUOTE]
Not all crimes prevent you from buying a guy. Most misdemeanors don't prevent that.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;48544635]or just buying them from other people?
you have this stupid way of thinking that makes you believe all guns used in crime are somehow magical "bad" guns that were stolen. get over the fact that the "gun control" in the us is completely, entirely useless and doesn't work one bit. running a background check on people who want to buy them legally in a store only hinders those who do it legally through stores. you guys need a register and a good way to know what people own them, instead of just going "omg muh 2nd amendment commies!!!!!!!!!" and thinking you're better off stacking them inside your garage when someone says a much stricter law is needed[/QUOTE]
Our gun control is almost fine. The two main issues are mental health records not being released that would prevent someone buying from an FFL, and [b]legal[/b] private gun sales in [b]40[/b] of the states (And only 16 require background checks in these private sales). Even with these two huge issues, considering the number of guns in our country, and the number of people killed by them per 100,000 people still being very small, especially when you look at many other countries, it's not as bad as people would think
[QUOTE=Scot;48544646]I just think that if you can't string a coherent sentence together maybe you shouldn't be walking around with a gun.[/QUOTE]
People make typos. Stop judging people based on them typing something incorrectly.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;48544658]and yet it's done? because there is NO way to control it.
how would you stop me from illegally buying guns in the US over craigslist?
you wouldn't, because there is no forced responsibility around the ownership of guns. i could call some guy, meet him at walmart, give him 600 bucks and walk home with an AR.
the police doesn't know where guns are. you can just throw them in a lake and nobody cares, then when someone "finds" them and shoots a cop it's all about "MENTAL ILLNESS NEEDS TO BE PRIORITIZED!"
fix your gun laws before anything else
stop brushing the problem under the carpet[/QUOTE]
You can't control what people do. People commit crimes even though they're illegal. You can't make it "more illegal" to illegally transfer or sell a gun.
They managed to catch a glimpse at the shooter: [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11648828/Misc/1440596586744.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;48544658]and yet it's done? because there is NO way to control it.[/QUOTE]
Then tell me, how would you control it? Present an idea that isn't an arbitrary ban on firearms.
[QUOTE=Scot;48544646]I just think that if you can't string a coherent sentence together maybe you shouldn't be walking around with a gun.[/QUOTE]
I apologies that my grammar is not the greatest but if you feel like I shouldn't walk around with a gun let me assure you that aside from passing the state test I have also completed Florida's police academy and had the second highest score in marksmanship and scored an average on 96% on all my tests.
3 years as a U.S Army Infantryman
Florida's G licence which allows me to work armed security.
I'm sorry my writing is not up to par but do not judge someone based on one thing alone.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;48544648]Our gun control is almost fine. The two main issues are mental health records not being released that would prevent someone buying from an FFL, and [b]legal[/b] private gun sales in [b]40[/b] of the states (And only 16 require background checks in these private sales). Even with these two huge issues, considering the number of guns in our country, and the number of people killed by them per 100,000 people still being very small, especially when you look at many other countries, it's not as bad as people would think[/QUOTE]
Who said only the mentally ill use guns to commit violent crime?
[QUOTE=Vasili;48544665]They managed to catch a glimpse at the shooter: [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11648828/Misc/1440596586744.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
He's gonna get caught. That's a perfect image.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;48544671]Who said only the mentally ill use guns to commit violent crime?[/QUOTE]
No one. But there's two holes that can easily be sealed up and really not affect how you can legally obtain a firearm. Certainly no more than there already is. I can go onto craigslist and buy basically any gun I want from someone right now. No background check, no 5 day waiting period, nothing. It'll be cheaper, too. And it's legal. If it became a felony to do private gun sales like that, I'd wager you wouldn't see anymore craigslist ads, certainly not as many
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;48544674]no, it's not "almost fine". there is no way to track a gun unless it's an NFA gun outside of what, cali, NJ, and NY?
the "you can't buy it from an ffl" point is moot, there are so many other ways to get them.
norway has over 2,2 million guns, this is a country of just barely 5,1 million people. 22/7 happened because the police intelligence agency were lazy fucks and didn't do their jobs. he was to be stopped from buying guns, but as the PST didn't react he was allowed.
what about the hundreds, thousands of gun homicides in the US every year? can you fix that by slapping a big fat band-aid marked "MENTAL CARE" onto the dead people?[/QUOTE]
How do you propose we stop people from illegally selling guns then?
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48544673]That's a perfect image.[/QUOTE]
Really? I don't think so. It appears to be a middle aged, bald man with dark clothes. That describes roughly 30% of the US population.
That's all we got.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48544686]Really? I don't think so. It appears to be a middle aged, bald man with dark clothes. That describes roughly 30% of the US population.
That's all we got.[/QUOTE]
It's a good image of his face, which can be used in facial recognition databases. We had a burglary where I work and the security cameras captured a night image of their faces. All of them were matched to a database of (I guess) mugshots and were captured that way.
I'm sure this guy has a criminal history.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;48544691]
don't tell me these laws are stupid, you can buy a barrett m98b on a hunting license no problem. collectors own full auto mg34s and m2hbs, a regular pistol shooter (as in be 21 and shoot regularly in a club for half a year, then buy) can own up to 8 handguns, many more if he's active. depending on the different sports/clubs you're shooting in you can own hundreds of guns as long as you have the activity level you need.[/QUOTE]
I wanted an answer and you gave me one, and actually, looking at those laws it makes a lot of sense. I've started to migrate towards a more liberal view towards firearms, and I feel more registration and tracking is important, yes.
It's just that there's so many of them out there, no matter how many registries you have or licensing you make, there will still be illegal firearms trading. There needs to be harsher punishments for illegal firearms trafficking.
But please, in the future, don't post shit like this:
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;48544691]
but this wouldn't work in the us, because gun control is for communists and eurofags, right? :)[/QUOTE]
It would be nice to have a universal register and all firearms have to go through FFL. But you wouldn't see the results from that for like 60 years until guns break and stop functioning and rot away, and here's why
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_aXvzGsxVoM/UMu0HCkr5pI/AAAAAAAAGzo/P7d-Sq2p7-s/s400/Screen+Shot+2012-12-14+at+6.45.59+PM.png[/img]
Still I wouldn't mind having one
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;48544724]obviously the start would be to make all new [legal] sales require a much more thorough background check and a licensing type of deal. if you want to own guns for hunting, you should have taken a hunter's safety course (like you do in certain states and countries (like i have)). for competition use, safety course through the IPSC or sumwhat, for self defence it should be only after a much more fleshed out safety course (not just "this is the loud end, this is how you put a magazine into it, here's your card")
then obviously make all already owned guns free to register without a license (as a way of grandfathering them). make future sales require a license/reason to buy it.
[editline]26th August 2015[/editline]
this chart is obviously either wrong or severely outdated[/QUOTE]
It's a bit dated, but it still shows the scale pretty well
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;48544691]Norway has a registry on all guns except for black powder/antiques/obsolete calibres and OU/SS shotguns bought before 1990. they're registered onto the person by type, make, model, calibre, serial number in a national registry. each gun is registered onto the owner until it's either transferred or destroyed. to buy guns you have to apply and submit the reason you want it.
don't tell me these laws are stupid, you can buy a barrett m98b on a hunting license no problem. collectors own full auto mg34s and m2hbs, a regular pistol shooter (as in be 21 and shoot regularly in a club for half a year, then buy) can own up to 8 handguns, many more if he's active. depending on the different sports/clubs you're shooting in you can own hundreds of guns as long as you have the activity level you need.
but this wouldn't work in the us, because gun control is for communists and eurofags, right? :)[/QUOTE]
I wasn't going to post in here again but I'm going to reply to this because I know you'll give it some thought rather than kneejerking-
My one and only issue with the concept of a national gun registry is that, as we've seen in several states now, registration leads to confiscation in every case so far. They will get gun owners to agree to support the law by saying it'll be illegal to confiscate firearms under that law, then after a couple years they amend the law to make it legal to use the registry to confiscate, and then they go door to door collecting all the scary black guns.
This has happened in NY and a couple other states I can't think of off the top of my head. The Constitution is literally meaningless in this country so we can't rely on the second amendment as a fallback against confiscation. That's why I'm opposed to the registry. If it could be guaranteed that a registry cannot be used as a shopping list for mass confiscation, then I'd be all for it, because I can see the benefits of having one. Unfortunately I've also seen law abiding gun owners criminalized for owning legal firearms when laws are changed suddenly in anti-gun states.
What on earth would the motive be behind shooting reporters.
[QUOTE=V12US;48544744]What on earth would the motive be behind shooting reporters.[/QUOTE]
News is saying "possible disgruntled employee"
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