[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48560216]I think first and foremost a firearms safety class should be mandatory on your first purchase. I think mental illnesses should show up on background checks, and you should be checked [I]at the door[/I] when entering a gun show. There are some other controls I think should be in place as well, smaller stuff mostly.
I think the current restrictions on what guns can be owned by someone who's qualified to own a gun are too tight, though.[/QUOTE]
Why do background checks matter if he can just use a knife to kill them instead though?
What restrictions are there currently?
I have a question for the gun guys:
Would you introduce legislation to unrestrict the purchase and sale of guns to countries that already have very low gun crime rates like Japan or France, and have heavily restricted guns?
[QUOTE=Badballer;48560213]So a very strict mental health assessment should be made before purchasing firearms, and if failed he shouldn't be allowed to purchase the firearm, but then he would still kill the reporters with a knife?[/QUOTE]
Yes he would have killed them regardless.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48560216]
This is just from this page. How long do you expect us to ignore this type of blatant baiting? It's fucking ignorant and stupid. He can't pose an argument without constructing an imaginary reality for himself of what a pro-gun person looks and acts like.[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about dude, we literally had a reasonable argument yesterday on pages 3-5 about this very same issue, those were my first two non serious posts in this thread, are you just relapsing or something? I can get angry and call people over the internet ignorant and stupid as well, it doesn't mean I'm right about anything. It just makes you seem knee jerk ridiculous and childish.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48560235]Yes he would have killed them regardless.[/QUOTE]
Then why is it a glaring issue that mental health records weren't disclosed when purchasing the gun, when it wouldn't have made a difference?
[QUOTE=Badballer;48560228]Why do background checks matter if he can just use a knife to kill them instead though?
What restrictions are there currently?[/QUOTE]
I have no doubt in my mind that it's easier to kill someone with a firearm, but I don't think the firearm is the reason people are getting killed. Psychos resort to guns for a reason, but the vast majority of gun owners are not psychos, so a blanket firearms ban is not the solution.
The current restrictions are a tangled web of ATF rulings based on their self-granted power to interpret an act from 1934 and enforce it as law. It includes things like barrels needing to be over 16" for rifles and shotguns, pistols cannot have the ability to be fitted with a stock, cannot have a foregrip - and has led to innocuous items like shoelaces being considered machine guns by law, leading to arrests. It's out of control and needs to be completely reworked.
[QUOTE=Badballer;48560245]Then why is it a glaring issue that mental health records weren't disclosed when purchasing the gun, when it wouldn't have made a difference?[/QUOTE]
In a lot of cases it will make a difference. I doubt it would have in this one though since he didn't seek help.
[QUOTE=Badballer;48560245]Then why is it a glaring issue that mental health records weren't disclosed when purchasing the gun, when it wouldn't have made a difference?[/QUOTE]
In theory it would have stopped him from purchasing the gun when he attempted to and created a flag for law enforcement to look into.
In practice it would be coupled with improvements to general mental healthcare and an effort to get rid of the stigma against having yourself checked if you're feeling down - what appears to be schizophrenia or a related disorder may well have been caught and treated years ago.
[editline]28th August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=WarriorWounds;48560242]What are you talking about dude, we literally had a reasonable argument yesterday on pages 3-5 about this very same issue, those were my first two non serious posts in this thread, are you just relapsing or something? I can get angry and call people over the internet ignorant and stupid as well, it doesn't mean I'm right about anything.[/QUOTE]
The way you're posting completely disregards it all and puts you in the same boat as Canary.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48560246]I have no doubt in my mind that it's easier to kill someone with a firearm, but I don't think the firearm is the reason people are getting killed. Psychos resort to guns for a reason, but the vast majority of gun owners are not psychos, so a blanket firearms ban is not the solution.
The current restrictions are a tangled web of ATF rulings based on their self-granted power to interpret an act from 1934 and enforce it as law. It includes things like barrels needing to be over 16" for rifles and shotguns, pistols cannot have the ability to be fitted with a stock, cannot have a foregrip - and has led to innocuous items like shoelaces being considered machine guns by law. It's out of control and needs to be completely reworked.[/QUOTE]
Do you believe it's worth it to take away guns from those who aren't 'psychos' to reduce homicide committed by 'psychos'?
[QUOTE=Badballer;48560264]Do you believe it's worth it to take away guns from those who aren't 'psychos' to reduce homicide committed by 'psychos'?[/QUOTE]
In short, no.
Long answer: not when there are other options available. Politicians in the US see it as a black and white issue and only third parties are willing to look at a compromise that works for everyone .
The core issue is that mental health care isn't funded, and the majority of the time it's the same people who will desperately defend any and all gun rights, regardless of impact, that also will never support a bill or any sort of legislation to raise taxes to help fund programs to actually solve the problem they openly admit exists. The "liberals" they hate are the ones who always are advocating for better healthcare for the poor and mentally ill, and also the ones who are advocates for more reasonable gun control. The conservatives in our country are killing us, indirectly through their selfish legislation and inability to combat the major problems in our country.
[QUOTE=Badballer;48560264]Do you believe it's worth it to take away guns from those who aren't 'psychos' to reduce homicide committed by 'psychos'?[/QUOTE]
No.
[QUOTE=WarriorWounds;48560268]The core issue is that mental health care isn't funded, and the majority of the time it's the same people who will desperately defend any and all gun rights, regardless of impact, that also will never support a bill or any sort of legislation to raise taxes to help fund programs to actually solve the program they openly admit exists. The "liberals" they hate are the ones who always are advocating for better healthcare for the poor and mentally ill, and also the ones who are advocates for more reasonable gun control. The conservatives in our country are killing us, indirectly through their selfish legislation and inability to combat the major problems in our country.[/QUOTE]
The liberals I "hate" are the ones who call themselves liberals (i.e. pro liberties) while advocating to take away rights and freedoms from and criminalize innocent people and refusing to see that the issue isn't as simple as "ban all guns, stop all crime!"
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48560251]In a lot of cases it will make a difference. I doubt it would have in this one though since he didn't seek help.[/QUOTE]
If he didn't want to seek help do you believe it should be forced? Such as detaining him when purchasing a gun and failing the mental health assessment?
[QUOTE=Badballer;48560284]If he didn't want to seek help do you believe it should be forced? Such as detaining him when purchasing a gun and failing the mental health assessment?[/QUOTE]
If police were called due to him throwing cat shit at neighbors, maybe that should have been disclosed to the FFL process.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48560276]The liberals I "hate" are the ones who call themselves liberals (i.e. pro liberties) while advocating to take away rights and freedoms from and criminalize innocent people and refusing to see that the issue isn't as simple as "ban all guns, stop all crime!"[/QUOTE]
Being a liberal isn't the same as being a libertarian. I also don't know where you got the idea that we're all self described liberals.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48560296]If police were called due to him throwing cat shit at neighbors, maybe that should have been disclosed to the FFL process.[/QUOTE]
Do you think he should be detained at that point to get him off the streets and prevent a homicide?
Sorry for the mass questions, just curious as to the mindset of pro-gun enthusiasts. I'm actually popping off soon anyway.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;48560318]Being a liberal isn't the same as being a libertarian.[/QUOTE]
You can't call yourself a liberal while advocating to criminalize 33% of the US population.
[editline]28th August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Badballer;48560327]Do you think he should be detained at that point to get him off the streets and prevent a homicide?[/QUOTE]
A psych eval should have been conducted at that point. Faze will probably feel that that's an invasion of privacy but I'm of the opinion that once you've started throwing animal feces at people you need to get checked.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48560329]You can't call yourself a liberal while advocating to criminalize 33% of the US population.[/QUOTE]
Holy strawman, batman! When did I say I wanted to do that?
[QUOTE=Badballer;48560327]Do you think he should be detained at that point to get him off the streets and prevent a homicide?
Sorry for the mass questions, just curious as to the mindset of pro-gun enthusiasts. I'm actually popping off soon anyway.[/QUOTE]
Well if he threw cat shit and did all the other things he did, he should have been charged with something, and that should have been provided to the FFL process. Pretty sure his little road rage incident would have been a felony, which would have prevented him from buying a gun.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;48560333]Holy strawman, batman! When did I say I wanted to do that?[/QUOTE]
When did I say you were one of the people I was talking about?
[QUOTE=proboardslol;48560201]What is it with the pro-gun people on facepunch who can't discuss something without insulting pro gun control people?[/QUOTE]
You know, that is a really big two way street, right? Give the thread a read, see how often the pro gun control people call their opponents psychopaths, paranoid, rednecks, those kinds of things. You might find a lack of innocence.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48560339]When did I say you were one of the people I was talking about?[/QUOTE]
Replying to me, and said [b]you[/b]
Where did anybody else advocate this, then?
[QUOTE=proboardslol;48560359]Replying to me, and said [b]you[/b]
Where did anybody else advocate this, then?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/you[/url]
[quote]one; anyone; people in general:
a tiny animal you can't even see.[/quote]
Where did I say anyone in this thread meets that description? It was stated that gun owners hate liberals, I said I hate a specific brand of liberal which is all too common.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48560276]The liberals I "hate" are the ones who call themselves liberals (i.e. pro liberties) while advocating to take away rights and freedoms from and criminalize innocent people and refusing to see that the issue isn't as simple as "ban all guns, stop all crime!"[/QUOTE]
Yeah, because you know "criminalize innocent people" is a flag anybody in their right mind stands under.
How about you put forth a reasonable argument instead of always appealing to emotion and ridiculous statements about how the " libral gubbermint is tryin to cum claim ur gunz, cuz they want to tax us harder, and because they just hate us because were havin fun!!..!! With our fucking lethal weapons which we think are toys."
The reality is that the pro gun lobby are usually always the same people who will lever lift a finger to help the mentally ill or refuse to ever raise taxes, ever for any programs which would actually attempt to fix the problem. Until you combat that fact about your position you're never going to receive reasonable support for protecting legitimate gun owners.
This is a problem that needs fixing, we've danced around the issue of helping our poor and unstable people in our country for decades, never really addressing the issues of the lack of funding or incentive for serious mental health care institutions to exist for all people. Instead burdening our prisons to try to take care of our criminals instead, they've tried there hardest, but it isn't enough man, something needs to change. They need more funding, and we need to stop being so ridiculous our about our toy weapons to take the issue seriously, stop repealing every healthcare act that attempts to get put though congress then maybe we can pretend you and your position isn't anything but a joke and a roadblock when it comes to solving the problem.
Gun murders are out of proportion in the us compared to any other civilized country, and somehow this has nothing to do with them being legal? Please.
Everywhere else its damn hard to put your hands on a firearm, unless you have contacts, but the average mentally deficient person would have a terribly hard job to get hold of one. And no, stabbing or using other weapons isn't at all as easy so the "he would have done it anyway" argument doesn't stand. If you think aiming and pushing a trigger is as easy and running up to someone and attempting to split them apart with a knife is equally as easy to pull off (mentally and physically) you should think about it a bit longer.
[QUOTE=WarriorWounds;48560369]Yeah, because you know "criminalize innocent people" is a flag anybody in their right mind stands under.
How about you put forth a reasonable argument instead of always appealing to emotion and ridiculous statements about how the "gubbermint is tryin to cum claim ur gunz, cuz they want to tax us harder, and because they just hate us because were havin fun!!..!! With our fucking lethal weapons which we think are toys."
The reality is that the pro gun lobby are usually always the same people who will lever lift a finger to help the mentally ill or refuse to ever raise taxes, ever for any programs which would actually attempt to fix the problem. Until you combat that fact about your position you're never going to receive reasonable support for protecting legitimate gun owners.
This is a problem that needs fixing, we've danced around the issue of helping our poor and unstable people in out country for decades, never really addressing the issues of the lack of funding or incentive for serious mental health care institutions to exist for all people. Instead burdening our prisons to try to take care of our criminals instead, they've tried there hardest, but it isn't enough man, something needs to change. They need more funding, and we need to stop being so ridiculous our about our toy weapons to take the issue seriously, stop repealing every healthcare act that attempts to get put though congress then maybe we can pretend you aren't anything but a joke when it comes to the problem.[/QUOTE]
How can you be this blind and ignorant? I'm mystified.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48560366][url]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/you[/url]
Where did I say anyone in this thread meets that description? It was stated that gun owners hate liberals, I said I hate a specific brand of liberal which is all too common.[/QUOTE]
So not only are you not talking about anyone in this thread, I don't believe these people even exist. Who advocates throwing every single gun owner in jail?
Cant edit on this damn lumia
[QUOTE=proboardslol;48560382]So not only are you not talking about anyone in this thread, I don't believe these people even exist. Who advocates throwing every single gun owner in jail?[/QUOTE]
An immediate ban on all guns as called for by many kneejerkers who don't think things through renders gun owners criminals.
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