[QUOTE=WarriorWounds;48610176]*pretends he accomplished something*[/QUOTE]
That's after every gun law put into place.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;48598143]
3. Most people do not argue this. We argue that areas like "Gun Free" zones are bad in nature as they can be easily selected as target for mass-shooters. Not to mention the current laws regarding gun free zones are gray at best, and usually enforced from locality to locality.
[/QUOTE]
gun free zone are only an easy target because its likely nobody there will have guns. if the whole country better gun laws, then you'd see a drop in gun crime - just like every other western nation. saying that "gun free zones" are a bad idea doesn't actually discount the idea of tougher gun regulation.
for example even in this video, some suicidal dude wants to kill some people he hates. in the best scenario, he has his gun out, and he shoots most of them, and they react quickly and shoot back - everyone dies. how is that better than in other western countries where its so hard to get a gun (especially a handgun) that average people can't just do that? in most countries what he did would be impossible. obviously you can't prevent ALL gun crime but gun crime like this can be prevented.
[QUOTE=Ridge;48610983]That's after every gun law put into place.[/QUOTE]
Yeah after Maryland did their "gun control" bullshit after Sandy Hook, I read some quote from some retard in Annapolis. He was like "I'm so glad we passed this law that is saving so many lives."
Meanwhile, Baltimore has had almost 250 homicides this year.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48564532]His positions on firearms are better than any other democratic candidate tbh and he doesn't want to outright ban any guns that currently exist in the US, just doesn't want to add more "assault weapons" - which I disagree with but it's something I can live with.[/QUOTE]
why the actual fuck do you americans need assault weapons for anyway? I say this every single time there is a gun argument
Im from a shooting family, my father shoots, my brother shoots and even my mother occasionally, I used to duck and dive with a lot of the more - Conservative shooters in this country when I was young so I grew up with the old, stereotypical english shooting background with the gun dogs and everything, but I still do not fucking understand why there is a necessary need for assault rifles or anything that is just bloody overkill.
What Bernie said was exactly on point, where he lives is fairly rural, therefore hunting is a big thing; which means guns actually are popular there, and funnily enough the crime rate is low due to the large percentage of guns to people that have either grown up with them or use them on a day to day basis to the point where its a [B]tool [/B]not a toy.
as for more, "exotic" guns shall we say (AR's, Pump Actions, all that sort of thing, not entirely sure what they use) I know that there are plenty of people that use these specific weapons [B]when[/B] the standard over and under or side by side shotgun isnt as powerful(Boar Hunting for example) I agree that they should keep these weapons in limited use and only for those that actively shoot boar and larger wildlife that could become a active pest in the area.
As for pistols, well; why the fuck do you need a pistol for, safety? I have been in a situation myself when a pistol was brandished aiming at my chest, and the last thing your going to want to do is actually fight for your life. I think pistols in the US are incredibly romanticised, thus meaning that they dont come across as such a big deal than what they should do. Aside from the police carrying them which I completely 100% agree on due to the crime rates in certain areas, there is no other reason to have one except from either - "Personal Defense" or just to collect the things or shoot them at a range, which just adds to the point that there is an obvious immature attitude towards guns in the US as they are "romanticised" and seen more as toys than tools.
Also, I love the whole "Why are there other people not from the US telling us how we should sort out our problems!", Say that again when you realize how ridiculous certain problems in your country are, to the point where a law/guideline written back when we were fighting you guys which made sense, has been distorted and used for personal gains so much over the past 50 years. (and the fact that, it was written in a period when 1 shot muskets were popular, not 15 round mags/pistol magazines)
[QUOTE=cr2142;48613759]why the actual fuck do you americans need assault weapons for anyway? I say this every single time there is a gun argument
Im from a shooting family, my father shoots, my brother shoots and even my mother occasionally, I used to duck and dive with a lot of the more - Conservative shooters in this country when I was young so I grew up with the old, stereotypical english shooting background with the gun dogs and everything, but I still do not fucking understand why there is a necessary need for assault rifles or anything that is just bloody overkill.
What Bernie said was exactly on point, where he lives is fairly rural, therefore hunting is a big thing; which means guns actually are popular there, and funnily enough the crime rate is low due to the large percentage of guns to people that have either grown up with them or use them on a day to day basis to the point where its a [B]tool [/B]not a toy.
as for more, "exotic" guns shall we say (AR's, Pump Actions, all that sort of thing, not entirely sure what they use) I know that there are plenty of people that use these specific weapons [B]when[/B] the standard over and under or side by side shotgun isnt as powerful(Boar Hunting for example) I agree that they should keep these weapons in limited use and only for those that actively shoot boar and larger wildlife that could become a active pest in the area.
As for pistols, well; why the fuck do you need a pistol for, safety? I have been in a situation myself when a pistol was brandished aiming at my chest, and the last thing your going to want to do is actually fight for your life. I think pistols in the US are incredibly romanticised, thus meaning that they dont come across as such a big deal than what they should do. Aside from the police carrying them which I completely 100% agree on due to the crime rates in certain areas, there is no other reason to have one except from either - "Personal Defense" or just to collect the things or shoot them at a range, which just adds to the point that there is an obvious immature attitude towards guns in the US as they are "romanticised" and seen more as toys than tools.
Also, I love the whole "Why are there other people not from the US telling us how we should sort out our problems!", Say that again when you realize how ridiculous certain problems in your country are, to the point where a law/guideline written back when we were fighting you guys which made sense, has been distorted and used for personal gains so much over the past 50 years. (and the fact that, it was written in a period when 1 shot muskets were popular, not 15 round mags/pistol magazines)[/QUOTE]
I enjoy my AR15 and AK for target shooting. They're fun to shoot. I don't have any intent to harm anyone with them, and I don't use them for home defense since they're not practical at all in most scenarios for that. That's what I have handguns for.
"Assault rifles" (which are actually defined as select fire, not semi auto as you're probably referring to) aren't used in most crimes. Handguns are used in most violent crimes since they are easy to conceal.
Your argument is identical to "Why do we need super cars? They're dangerous and go fast." So would you ban those too? They can kill people just as easily as a firearm. And they're not practical, so let's ban them too, right? Banning guns in the US will do no better than prohibition or making drugs illegal. The millions of guns that are in the hands of criminals, which don't follow laws, will still be in the hands of criminals because they didn't follow the FFL process, so the ATF has no record of them owning them. What that will leave us with is an unarmed population and a criminal population heavily armed in comparison. That won't go down well. If the US somehow gets past the logistical nightmare of confiscating ~300 million legally owned firearms, there will be an armed revolution with a ton of bloodshed.
As I've stated several times, the European viewpoint is different from the US viewpoint of guns due to cultural differences. We will never agree.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48613772]I enjoy my AR15 and AK for target shooting. They're fun to shoot. I don't have any intent to harm anyone with them, and I don't use them for home defense since they're not practical at all in most scenarios for that. That's what I have handguns for.
"Assault rifles" (which are actually defined as select fire, not semi auto as you're probably referring to) aren't used in most crimes. Handguns are used in most violent crimes since they are easy to conceal.[/QUOTE]
And?
they are millitary built and designed for millitary uses (aside from, in the case of a AR15; shooting large bulkier animals) What stops you one day from going off the rails? We are all human, and its obvious that anyone can go off the rails; hell, I still find it a little ironic how everyone is surprised the shooter for this incident was both black and gay; just adds to my point that literally anyone could go off the rails at any time, and if theres easy access to weapons in your home, then theres a good chance you'll be shooting someone.
It shouldnt matter how many crimes have or have not had assault rifles involved, the fact they are being used at all is just disgusting.
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout[/url]
[QUOTE=cr2142;48613794]And?
they are millitary built and designed for millitary uses (aside from, in the case of a AR15; shooting large bulkier animals) What stops you one day from going off the rails? We are all human, and its obvious that anyone can go off the rails; hell, I still find it a little ironic how everyone is surprised the shooter for this incident was both black and gay; just adds to my point that literally anyone could go off the rails at any time, and if theres easy access to weapons in your home, then theres a good chance you'll be shooting someone.
It shouldnt matter how many crimes have or have not had assault rifles involved, the fact they are being used at all is just disgusting.
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout[/url][/QUOTE]
See above edited post.
You're quoting one instance that is almost 20 years old. There are about 280 million legal, sane gun owners in the US. The .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of insane people that slip thru the cracks shouldn't fuck it up for the rest of us.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48613806]See above edited post.
You're quoting one instance that is almost 20 years old. There are about 280 million legal, sane gun owners in the US. The .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of insane people that slip thru the cracks shouldn't fuck it up for the rest of us.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]to the point where a law/guideline written back when we were fighting you guys which made sense, has been distorted and used for personal gains so much over the past 50 years. (and the fact that, it was written in a period when 1 shot muskets were popular, not 15 round mags/pistol magazines)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] What stops you one day from going off the rails? We are all human, and its obvious that anyone can go off the rails[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=cr2142;48613832][/QUOTE]
Muskets have nothing to do with it, and aren't even mentioned. Why is this the only thing Brits think the second amendment is for? It's not. It gives citizens the right to bear arms, and says "shall not be infringed." It wasn't designed "for that day and age" at all.
And I'm not going off the rails bud.
[QUOTE=cr2142;48613759]why the actual fuck do you americans need assault weapons for anyway? I say this every single time there is a gun argument[/QUOTE]
And it seems you've never bothered to read the answers, if you ask it every time.
First of all, they're not an American exclusive. Second, because we fucking can.
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;48613838]And it seems you've never bothered to read the answers, if you ask it every time.
First of all, they're not an American exclusive. Second, because we fucking can.[/QUOTE]
Because the answers are always entirely the same, gun control in the USA is such a obvious problem, theres always a shooting in a highschool, a shooting in a street and "shots fired in area" stories. But theres always a few americans that stand by there guns as if it really should be a part of culture which to many of us (specifically the EU) just find a little silly.
[QUOTE=cr2142;48613877]Because the answers are always entirely the same, gun control in the USA is such a obvious problem, theres always a shooting in a highschool, a shooting in a street and "shots fired in area" stories. But theres always a few americans that stand by there guns as if it really should be a part of culture which to many of us (specifically the EU) just find a little silly.[/QUOTE]
Because the people behind the trigger have a mental issue or something similar. The gun is an inanimate object. I guess we should blame spoons for making people fat when they have eating disorders, huh?
[QUOTE=cr2142;48613877]Because the answers are always entirely the same, gun control in the USA is such a obvious problem, theres always a shooting in a highschool, a shooting in a street and "shots fired in area" stories. But theres always a few americans that stand by there guns as if it really should be a part of culture which to many of us (specifically the EU) just find a little silly.[/QUOTE]
And you'll just have to keep thinking it's silly, we don't have to explain shit to you and your fear of "assault rifles" which almost noone in america owns anyways.
This isn't a violence free utopia and never will be, so keep getting worked up about a problem that has nothing to do with you.
[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;48613895]And you'll just have to keep thinking it's silly, we don't have to explain shit to you and your fear of "assault rifles" which almost noone in america owns anyways.
This isn't a violence free utopia and never will be, so keep getting worked up about a problem that has nothing to do with you.[/QUOTE]
Okay forgive me for just giving my opinion on a forum that isn't exclusively US.
[QUOTE=cr2142;48613923]Okay forgive me for just giving my opinion on a forum that isn't exclusively US.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for your uninformed opinion, it has been noted.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48613837]Muskets have nothing to do with it, and aren't even mentioned. Why is this the only thing Brits think the second amendment is for? It's not. It gives citizens the right to bear arms, and says "shall not be infringed." It wasn't designed "for that day and age" at all.
And I'm not going off the rails bud.[/QUOTE]
The Second Amendment is over 200 years old, it's about time people seriously looked at its relevance in today's society instead of treating it like some sort of sacrosanct codex. The fact that it itself was an amendment to the original constitution should tell you that things can and do change.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48614017]The Second Amendment is over 200 years old, it's about time people seriously looked at its relevance in today's society instead of treating it like some sort of sacrosanct codex. The fact that it itself was an amendment to the original constitution should tell you that things can and do change.[/QUOTE]
The bill of rights is not a living document.
[QUOTE=cr2142;48613923]Okay forgive me for just giving my opinion on a forum that isn't exclusively US.[/QUOTE]
You are literally one of the people who has a meltdown when told your gun laws are too strict ("It's none of your business!!! Mind your own country's business!!!") so why don't you sit down?
Explain to me in clear terms why I should melt down my century old Mauser semi-automatic and single action Colt revolvers if you still want to argue about something.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48614017]The Second Amendment is over 200 years old, it's about time people seriously looked at its relevance in today's society instead of treating it like some sort of sacrosanct codex. The fact that it itself was an amendment to the original constitution should tell you that things can and do change.[/QUOTE]
No. There was a reason it was made, and a reason for it to still be there. Things do change, for better or for worse, and will always continue. The Second Amendment is not and never was a problem.
[QUOTE=cr2142;48613877]Because the answers are always entirely the same, gun control in the USA is such a obvious problem, theres always a shooting in a highschool, a shooting in a street and "shots fired in area" stories. But theres always a few americans that stand by there guns as if it really should be a part of culture which to many of us (specifically the EU) just find a little silly.[/QUOTE]
You started your argument by claiming why did we need assault weapons, something Americans cannot just openly buy. AK's and AR-15's in the US are not military weapons, most of the AK's are either remade hunting rifles or rebuilt military rifles to civilian standards, while AR-15's are civilian firearms, unlike the military M-16 and M-4, they are not automatic. The US has a much different culture, you as a European may not understand it, but we do. You were quite wrong though on many things. You nitpicked a few incidents, and overstated how powerful AR-15's were(The round is pretty weak for big game hunting), and threw in stuff about mass shootings, or actually no, just plain old shootings, something commonly done with pistols. It's not a lie when I say more are killed by hammers than they are with AR-15's, FBI crime states even showed that. The fact is, the US is actually very safe to live in, you are not likely to be shot, even though your neighbor is likely to own a gun. If anyone tells you different, they have no idea what they are talking about. Statistically speaking, you are still safe. Hell, take out the biggest cities with the highest gun control, and gun crime drops in gun friendly parts of the USA. I don't expect you to believe me, I actually expect another argument, but it's the truth. Nothing is wrong with owning civilian versions of military rifles, something you even find in Europe. Even with proposed gun laws, most gun crime would continue unhindered, and that's it.
He won't listen. You could take an hour to clearly cite all your sources or spend a day writing a novel about why it's true and he'd just tell you you're wrong, ignorant american. They're all the same here lol, anything that would cause them to be proven wrong they just ignore
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48614981]He won't listen. You could take an hour to clearly cite all your sources or spend a day writing a novel about why it's true and he'd just tell you you're wrong, ignorant american. They're all the same here lol, anything that would cause them to be proven wrong they just ignore[/QUOTE]
That's the truth, well, I'll check back to see his response, surprised this thread has lasted so long.
I wonder if these people would have a problem with people collecting military knives and swords. I mean they where built exclusively to kill people right?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;48623474]I wonder if these people would have a problem with people collecting military knives and swords. I mean they where built exclusively to kill people right?[/QUOTE]
military knives and swords aren't rapid fire long range weapons. its a false equivalency
[QUOTE=OneFourth;48623495]military knives and swords aren't rapid fire long range weapons. its a false equivalency[/QUOTE]
So are repeating crossbows illegal then?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;48623501]So are repeating crossbows illegal then?[/QUOTE]
In what context are we talking? In some cases yes and in others no
[QUOTE=Code3Response;48623516]In what context are we talking? In some cases yes and in others no[/QUOTE]
In general
Every time I read assault weapon mentioned here I cringe super hard
theres no difference between an 'assultwepin' and a normal semi mag fed rifle. but because it's 2militarytacticlomgspook it's an assultwepin!11
so why don't you just argue you want to ban semi-automatic rifles instead of this cancer term you keep using.
[QUOTE=OneFourth;48623495]military knives and swords aren't rapid fire long range weapons. its a false equivalency[/QUOTE]
My Mosin Nagant isn't rapid fire, but I should mention some of the deadliest snipers in history used one. It's very much a fun hunting rifle and collectors item.
[QUOTE=cr2142;48613759]why the actual fuck do you americans need assault weapons for anyway? I say this every single time there is a gun argument
Im from a shooting family, my father shoots, my brother shoots and even my mother occasionally, I used to duck and dive with a lot of the more - Conservative shooters in this country when I was young so I grew up with the old, stereotypical english shooting background with the gun dogs and everything, but I still do not fucking understand why there is a necessary need for assault rifles or anything that is just bloody overkill.
What Bernie said was exactly on point, where he lives is fairly rural, therefore hunting is a big thing; which means guns actually are popular there, and funnily enough the crime rate is low due to the large percentage of guns to people that have either grown up with them or use them on a day to day basis to the point where its a [B]tool [/B]not a toy.
as for more, "exotic" guns shall we say (AR's, Pump Actions, all that sort of thing, not entirely sure what they use) I know that there are plenty of people that use these specific weapons [B]when[/B] the standard over and under or side by side shotgun isnt as powerful(Boar Hunting for example) I agree that they should keep these weapons in limited use and only for those that actively shoot boar and larger wildlife that could become a active pest in the area.
As for pistols, well; why the fuck do you need a pistol for, safety? I have been in a situation myself when a pistol was brandished aiming at my chest, and the last thing your going to want to do is actually fight for your life. I think pistols in the US are incredibly romanticised, thus meaning that they dont come across as such a big deal than what they should do. Aside from the police carrying them which I completely 100% agree on due to the crime rates in certain areas, there is no other reason to have one except from either - "Personal Defense" or just to collect the things or shoot them at a range, which just adds to the point that there is an obvious immature attitude towards guns in the US as they are "romanticised" and seen more as toys than tools.
Also, I love the whole "Why are there other people not from the US telling us how we should sort out our problems!", Say that again when you realize how ridiculous certain problems in your country are, to the point where a law/guideline written back when we were fighting you guys which made sense, has been distorted and used for personal gains so much over the past 50 years. (and the fact that, it was written in a period when 1 shot muskets were popular, not 15 round mags/pistol magazines)[/QUOTE]
Do I NEED my SKS, or the AR I'm buying? Not really, I'll probably and hopefully never have to use them for more than putting holes in paper. But, if I do need them to protect my family and I, or if the incredibly and unfathomably unlikely event when I may need to go against the government one day happens, they're there in the closet.
I've never had any mental issues, any run ins with the police worth mentioning, am well versed in safety, and have been shooting from a fairly young age. There's no huge risk to me owning guns. Taking them because something very unlikely might happen isn't something I agree with. Taking my, and the vast majority of gun owners guns away because some gang banger blew his buddy in to pieces isn't something ai agree with, because I value my rights and what they stand for much more than that.
I don't need them, but I'm not subscribed to some utilitarian life style where I can only have the essentials. I enjoy them, and there's no reasonable way to say I'm a danger to anyone, so there's no reason I shouldn't own them. The sa me goes for pretty much every other gun owner in the US.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;48627706]Do I NEED my SKS, or the AR I'm buying? Not really, I'll probably and hopefully never have to use them for more than putting holes in paper. But, if I do need them to protect my family and I, or if the incredibly and unfathomably unlikely event when I may need to go against the government one day happens, they're there in the closet.
I've never had any mental issues, any run ins with the police worth mentioning, am well versed in safety, and have been shooting from a fairly young age. There's no huge risk to me owning guns. Taking them because something very unlikely might happen isn't something I agree with. Taking my, and the vast majority of gun owners guns away because some gang banger blew his buddy in to pieces isn't something ai agree with, because I value my rights and what they stand for much more than that.
I don't need them, but I'm not subscribed to some utilitarian life style where I can only have the essentials. I enjoy them, and there's no reasonable way to say I'm a danger to anyone, so there's no reason I shouldn't own them. The sa me goes for pretty much every other gun owner in the US.[/QUOTE]
Yup, but unfortunately events like this stir up the anti-gun people that think the big black inanimate objects are the result of death. Then they wanna go banning things (which doesn't work) and passing "gun control" which I doubt they even know the definition of as it is. We have THOUSANDS of gun laws, which should be enforced more. We don't need more laws.
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