[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;47877518]Has there actually been a case where the final game was graphically better than trailers?[/QUOTE]
Grand Theft Auto V looked way better than its very first trailer. Even on the last-gen consoles.
So it's okay to get super hyped over a trailer that doesn't show much of the actual game, but not think it looks bad?
I thought that was what trailers are for, to see if you care about the game at all.
The problem is that people are comparing Fallout 4 to games like Witcher 3 and Crisis because there is now a "standard" for graphics in 2015.
I really hope Fallout 4 doesn't do that thing where like 5 different voice actors record the same line. It's really creepy.
[QUOTE=NoobSauce;47877641]The problem is that people are comparing Fallout 4 to games like Witcher 3 and Crisis because there is now a "standard" for graphics in 2015.[/QUOTE]
nah m8 there's been plenty of other criticism no ones bothered to respond to because it has legit merit and they can't apply the tried and true "you haven't played it yet" scarecrow.
I doubt anyone has a problem with people exchanging their opinions, but that doesn't make being toxic towards the devs acceptable.
I wouldn't say anyone's being "toxic"?? towards the developers, they've been around the block and are being judged for it. The same if not worse would happen in a thread about infinity ward so whats the big D. Wheres it written that the fallout thread has to be a bastion of positivity. People have their concerns and their voicing them, if they're without merit do both parties a favor and ignore it, or respond. But to pose it as a "problem" for comparing this game to another or other such statements doesn't make sense to me. If people like graphics they can complain, how many movies get pegged as shit before they're out based solely on a trailer and no one gives a toss?
[editline]4th June 2015[/editline]
I mean the main point seems to be "I don't care about graphics shut up i'll enjoy the gameplay" Well COOL that's ok.
But what the christ is wrong about discussing how the games developed? We've got a board for programming and a thread about graphics, their valid topics. Just because you can't teach an old dog new tricks doesn't mean you can't call the dog a poorly developed mutt.
Theres a difference though between what some people are doing, pointing out faults Beth has made over their releases and ones like the post at the top of this page for instance. Calling people lazy and ignorant for their hard work is below the belt and is not criticism. Thats just flaming.
To respond to the graphics thing sure they can complain, and id like to see someone being legitimately critical of the actual style. Personally I'm not sure if their character art will fall into the uncanny valley since thats always been a problem for Bethesda, but just theres not enough information yet to make much judgement. Saying someone didnt do enough shader magic to hit an absurd nonexistent "standard" is an empty statement though. I'm not advocating that everyone's a bubbly personality, just that they should have an appreciation and understanding for the work they're seeing and the people who made it.
in what way are people more worried about the graphics being "Good"
the game looks artistically amazing and like they've upgraded since skyrim quite a fair way
are you bitching that this game doesn't look like Witcher 3? Because if you were expecting top of the line graphics from bethesda then you must be crazy. They've never been about that and I think everyone should be smart enough to know this by now.
The game, even in 2015, looks pretty good. Their games have looked good for their year, especially morrowind. But they aren't Witcher 3 tier, get off your own ass. Bethesda is never going to worry that much about graphics, because if they did the quality of the game with nosedive.
Witcher 3 isn't the standard for graphics, that's like... absolutely dumb. If you actually believe everyone should try and get stuff that pretty, stop posting. If anything, I'd say gta 5 on medium-high or bloodborne are the hitting point for acceptable with a medium end card for an open world game as huge as this.
Like the developer has to be perfect today, if anything the consumer should be grateful that the product is even a reality seeing how much work actually goes into it.
This new way of thinking about games is almost hypocritical to the core. I'm fine with people discussing things, but hammering on these graphics just seem silly.
If anything it just makes the gamer culture out to be a bunch of spoiled brats.
YouTube reviewers have fostered up a generation of whiny critics.
He said incompetent and lazy, not that I entirely agree with the post but both are plain to see in aspects of their multiple game series. It's blunt to just state it sure, but you know what he's referring to, not everyone wants to write a paragraph explaining themselves. And as far as graphics standards, the specific person who wrote that has seen an industry grow and improve, with bethesda games noticeably lag behind. I'm not going to look back for it but i'm p sure he didn't say "it didn't meet an industry standard" sounded more like he's come to expect more from games in an industry that is CONSTANTLY improving. Why can't he point out Geralt's luscious hair and then point to the dog in the Fallout trailer and ask why it's not even close technology wise? Seems valid to me to compare them. Unless we're just to be complacent because "well it's bethesda"
[editline]4th June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=J!NX;47877973]in what way are people more worried about the graphics being "Good"
the game looks artistically amazing and like they've upgraded since skyrim quite a fair way
are you bitching that this game doesn't look like Witcher 3? Because if you were expecting top of the line graphics from bethesda then you must be crazy. They've never been about that and I think everyone should be smart enough to know this by now.
The game, even in 2015, looks pretty good. Their games have looked good for their year, especially morrowind. But they aren't Witcher 3 tier, get off your own ass. Bethesda is never going to worry that much about graphics, because if they did the quality of the game with nosedive.
Witcher 3 isn't the standard for graphics, that's like... absolutely dumb. If you actually believe everyone should try and get stuff that pretty, stop posting. If anything, I'd say gta 5 on medium-high or bloodborne are the hitting point for acceptable with a medium end card for an open world game as huge as this.[/QUOTE]
like for real look how hostile this post is.
[quote]if you were expecting top of the line graphics from bethesda then you must be crazy.[/quote]
They've made a lot of money, whose to say they couldn't hire extra staff and beef up the visuals? To use the witcher series as an example since it's popular, that game looked kinda bad in the original, but it got better, a whole lot better.
[quote]get off your own ass. Bethesda is never going to worry that much about graphics, because if they did the quality of the game with nosedive.[/quote]
Witcher improved gameplay and graphics, sounds like blind defensiveness. Again, whats with the complacency. So some people want to see more from Bethesda, so what?
[QUOTE=Warborq;47878032]
YouTube reviewers have fostered up a generation of whiny critics.[/QUOTE]
Some people like burgers as they come, others to special order. Different strokes for different folks. When we live in a world with such crazy technology, why are people who want to see it utilized suddenly "whiny critics" Or are they just suppose to sit there and be happy with what they have. "Yes feed me more please, more of the same will do."
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;47877518]Has there actually been a case where the final game was graphically better than trailers?[/QUOTE]
duke nukem forever
[QUOTE=Parakon;47878082]They've made a lot of money, whose to say they couldn't hire extra staff and beef up the visuals? To use the witcher series as an example since it's popular, that game looked kinda bad in the original, but it got better, a whole lot better.
Witcher improved gameplay and graphics, sounds like blind defensiveness.[/QUOTE]
Witcher 3 has amazing gameplay while still having amazing graphics, and fallout 4 still has very very good graphics, but I don't see why they would ever try to make it witcher 3 tier. Bethesda has never seemed to want any of their games to be realistic, they've always picked art style first. It wouldn't be characteristic at all.
and people are using Witcher but it's unfair, as, they're distinctly about realism. Fallout 4 wouldn't make sense in a hyper realistic settings because of how 'wild' and 'absurd' so much of the world is, and TES has always been more fantastical than anything, just look at morrowind (which was crazy for its time)
fallout fits way more in an artstyle based graphics setting. And Fallout 4 already looks pretty amazing, why are people asking for witcher 3 tier graphics? that's dumb and asking for everyone to follow the best of 2015 is hostile in itself.
Fallout 4 already is obviously beefed up since Skyrim anyways. If they beefed graphics too much the quality would nosedive because frankly, Bethesda can't optimize for shit at all.
But we won't know for sure until we see it come released. And my post was hostile towards the fact that... it looks amazing, why should it be witcher 3 tier? It wasn't really directed at anyone except people who might not even by in this thread, who are complaining about graphics not being hyper-ultra-HD
because really, anyone who is so worried about graphics that they'll even nit pick good looking games the moment they see the first trailer for a game, before anything else, are up their own ass.
at the same time, people are discussing graphics because that's literally all we see in the trailer.
[QUOTE=Parakon;47878082]
Some people like burgers as they come, others to special order. Different strokes for different folks. When we live in a world with such crazy technology, why are people who want to see it utilized suddenly "whiny critics" Or are they just suppose to sit there and be happy with what they have.
"Yes feed me more please, more of the same will do."[/QUOTE] Wake up sheeple. :downs:
[QUOTE=J!NX;47878168]Witcher 3 has amazing gameplay while still having amazing graphics, and fallout 4 still has very very good graphics, but I don't see why they would ever try to make it witcher 3 tier. Bethesda has never seemed to want any of their games to be realistic, they've always picked art style first. It wouldn't be characteristic at all.
and people are using Witcher but it's unfair, as, they're distinctly about realism. Fallout 4 wouldn't make sense in a hyper realistic settings because of how 'wild' and 'absurd' so much of the world is, and TES has always been more fantastical than anything, just look at morrowind (which was crazy for its time)
fallout fits way more in an artstyle based graphics setting. And Fallout 4 already looks pretty amazing, why are people asking for witcher 3 tier graphics? that's dumb and asking for everyone to follow the best of 2015 is hostile in itself.
Fallout 4 already is obviously beefed up since Skyrim anyways.
But we won't know for sure until we see it come released. And my post was hostile towards the fact that... it looks amazing, why should it be witcher 3 tier? It wasn't really directed at anyone except people who might not even by in this thread, who are complaining about graphics not being hyper-ultra-HD
because really, anyone who is so worried about graphics that they'll even nit pick good looking games the moment they see the first trailer for a game, before anything else, are up their own ass.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't explain shit tier texture quality and plastic.
[QUOTE=Grindigo;47878223]Doesn't explain shit tier texture quality and plastic.[/QUOTE]
But the game looks pretty good as it is, what's really the issue?
What are people more worried about here? Bad art direction? Or low resolution textures?
I still actually can't believe this has been announced.
People have been saying 2015 is the best year for video games, and at this point, they are very right.
[QUOTE=J!NX;47878243]But the game looks pretty good as it is, what's really the issue?
What are people more worried about here? Bad art direction? Or low resolution textures?[/QUOTE]
I'd say low quality textures, 512x512 resolution textures on 1080p look very blurry, I'd rather have them use 2k texture sets but leave ability to scale them down through options, Witcher 2 did that.
[QUOTE=Grindigo;47878296]I'd say low quality textures, 512x512 resolution textures on 1080p look very blurry, I'd rather have them use 2k texture sets but leave ability to scale them down through options, Witcher 2 did that.[/QUOTE]
tbh this is something all devs should do, but, as free DLC (skyrim had HD textures DLC but it wasn't that huge a difference)
release the raw, uncompressed textures as well as something lower than that
[QUOTE=J!NX;47878319]tbh this is something all devs should do, but, as free DLC (skyrim had HD textures DLC but it wasn't that huge a difference)
release the raw, uncompressed textures as well as something lower than that[/QUOTE]
That should be a common practice by now since we're stepping into 4k realm faster and faster now. Imagine seeing blurry textures on your 4K display, it would be atrocious.
[QUOTE=J!NX;47878319]tbh this is something all devs should do, but, as free DLC (skyrim had HD textures DLC but it wasn't that huge a difference)
release the raw, uncompressed textures as well as something lower than that[/QUOTE]
Skyrim's HD texture pack was a huge difference, but only to the inventory items. It didn't apply to anything other than the loot. Which, I can understand why they did that, as with these games, picking up and hoarding and examining precious loot is pretty much 75% of the game. So it makes sense why they didn't touch the other textures.
However, at least based on those screenshots as opposed to the trailer which doesn't show as much detail, the textures look a lot better this time around. Why are we saying global illumination, though? I mean I'm not outright disagreeing with it, but I'm just saying what we've seen could easily be baked, we haven't seen enough in-game motion to conclusively say it's GI.
Looks far better than previous bethsoft games and actually looks like, I would say, just a notch below the graphical quality of bioshock infinite. Which I mean I expect a lot less from bethesda.
Yes, saying that it looks almost as good as a last gen game that itself didn't have like super astounding graphics at the time, that is a compliment for bethesda. I'm just trying to be optimistic here.
[QUOTE=J Paul;47878614]Skyrim's HD texture pack was a huge difference, but only to the inventory items. It didn't apply to anything other than the loot. Which, I can understand why they did that, as with these games, picking up and hoarding and examining precious loot is pretty much 75% of the game. So it makes sense why they didn't touch the other textures.
However, at least based on those screenshots as opposed to the trailer which doesn't show as much detail, the textures look a lot better this time around. Why are we saying global illumination, though? I mean I'm not outright disagreeing with it, but I'm just saying what we've seen could easily be baked, we haven't seen enough in-game motion to conclusively say it's GI.
Looks far better than previous bethsoft games and actually looks like, I would say, just a notch below the graphical quality of bioshock infinite. Which I mean I expect a lot less from bethesda.
Yes, saying that it looks almost as good as a last gen game that itself didn't have like super astounding graphics at the time, that is a compliment for bethesda. I'm just trying to be optimistic here.[/QUOTE]
There's a difference between global illumination and [I]realtime[/I] global illumination. You can have GI without it being realtime.
[QUOTE=Grindigo;47878296]I'd say low quality textures, 512x512 resolution textures on 1080p look very blurry, I'd rather have them use 2k texture sets but leave ability to scale them down through options, Witcher 2 did that.[/QUOTE]
huh? the texel density on most any asset in the trailer is way too high for 512x512 textures without using lots of decals or some fully/semi procedural shader work. both of which are generally more expensive than just using higher resolutions.
[editline]4th June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=srobins;47878837]There's a difference between global illumination and [I]realtime[/I] global illumination. You can have GI without it being realtime.[/QUOTE]
to add to this it's possible that they're modifying baked GI (could be stored in lightmaps, which you can tell they use from the light on the left in the red light district shot. since they'll surely have dynamic time of day, they would most likely use something like Unreal 4's SkySphere blueprint and have it act as a multiplier on the GI.
and to back up my claim that gi exists in the first place, this is the picture im going off
[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/dl5XOoL.jpg[/img_thumb]
you can tell from the canopies that it's got translucent shadows and the color is spilling
I'm so glad that I'm going to be waiting for mods and the rift for this game
I want the definitive fallout experiance
[sp]which is playing at 20 fps with 30+ graphics mods installed[/sp]
[QUOTE=J!NX;47877973]in what way are people more worried about the graphics being "Good"
the game looks artistically amazing and like they've upgraded since skyrim quite a fair way
are you bitching that this game doesn't look like Witcher 3? Because if you were expecting top of the line graphics from bethesda then you must be crazy. They've never been about that and I think everyone should be smart enough to know this by now.
The game, even in 2015, looks pretty good. Their games have looked good for their year, especially morrowind. But they aren't Witcher 3 tier, get off your own ass. Bethesda is never going to worry that much about graphics, because if they did the quality of the game with nosedive.
Witcher 3 isn't the standard for graphics, that's like... absolutely dumb. If you actually believe everyone should try and get stuff that pretty, stop posting. If anything, I'd say gta 5 on medium-high or bloodborne are the hitting point for acceptable with a medium end card for an open world game as huge as this.[/QUOTE]
Not to be a dick but the Witcher 3 has excellent graphics and is one of the best cinematic storytelling RPG's to date. Just saying.
I don't care if FO4 looks good or not, I just want good gameplay, I could give two shits about the graphics.
[QUOTE=DarkCarnage;47879154]Not to be a dick but the Witcher 3 has excellent graphics and is one of the best cinematic storytelling RPG's to date. Just saying.[/QUOTE]
but I was saying witcher 3 has amazing graphics. I was complaining about people bitching about it not looking top tier like witcher 3.
unless you mean the "Bethesda is never going to worry that much about graphics, because if they did the quality of the game with nosedive." comment I made, that was meant exclusively for Bethesda's part, I wasn't like saying witcher 3 has shit gameplay because of its graphics, just that bethesda optimizes like a monkey.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;47879008]huh? the texel density on most any asset in the trailer is way too high for 512x512 textures without using lots of decals or some fully/semi procedural shader work. both of which are generally more expensive than just using higher resolutions.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Skyrim was using 1k standard textures and 2k High-Res (some smaller items were either mapped multiple items to one texture or on a single smaller texture), they are hardly going to take a step down for the next game.
2k standard is likely and possible-to-probable 4k high-res pack.
[QUOTE=MilkBiscuit;47877649]I really hope Fallout 4 doesn't do that thing where like 5 different voice actors record the same line. It's really creepy.[/QUOTE]
[sp]Patrolling[/sp][sp]the[/sp][sp]Mojave[/sp][sp]almost[/sp][sp]makes[/sp][sp]you[/sp][sp]wish[/sp][sp]for[/sp][sp]a[/sp][sp]nuclear[/sp][sp]winter.[/sp]
[QUOTE=damnatus;47875951]This looks weirdly cartoony and I don't like it one bit[/QUOTE]
Its not much more cartoony if you look at that scene in the ruined grocery store with those ghoul like creatures. It makes sense that there is more color though because society has had more time to rebuild itself since the last game. I'm expecting a lot more working technology in the new game.
I really like the cartoony feeling they are going with. Well, cartoony colors. It doesn't [I]look bad[/I], most people are complaining because [I]it's not realistic[/I].
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