Alabama Special Election Senate Thread - Dec. 12, 2017. - DOUG JONES WINS -
828 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;52966940]So let me ask you a question: What is it about Democrats and their policies that make a child molester more appealing to these people? And I'm not talking about the racist strawman low hanging fruit. Why will the normal everyday people vote for him?[/QUOTE]
Depends on what these people have been told. You are assuming that their reasons are good ones.
Besides, the dude wants to bring back slavery and these people are still voting for him, why is racism always considered a strawman when it so clearly motivates so many voters?.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52967016]yeah racists most definitely aren't a thing in the deep south. what a crazy strawman that'd be[/QUOTE]
The strawman is that all of his voters is racist, and are only voting for him because he is racist, not that he has racist voters. But please continue to make quips that completely ignore the question I've asked.
[QUOTE=fulgrim;52967025]Depends on what these people have been told. You are assuming that their reasons are good ones.
Besides, the dude wants to bring back slavery and these people are still voting for him, why is racism always considered a strawman when it so clearly motivates so many voters?.[/QUOTE]
See above.
I would argue it takes a little bit of racism to hear a guy say he wants slavery back and still vote for him.
I mean, it would be a strawman to argue literally every one of his voters is a sworn member of the KKK- but I think it's pushing it to say racism is an insignificant low hanging fruit factor here.
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;52966761]
The fact people are getting mad at people voting for him isn't the people's fault, it's the parties fault.
However just because the party sucks doesn't mean that I won't vote for the party supporting my visions. [/QUOTE]
I don't usually say this, but in defense of the Republican Party, they did not push for Roy Moore, even if most effectively support him now in the general. They actively worked their hardest to stop him in the primary by nominating the incumbent appointed Senator, Luther Strange. They even managed to convice Trump to stump for Strange, albeit as half-heartedly it may have been.
The conservative voters of Alabama actively sought out Moore and his repugnant views regardless of mainstream Republican support for Strange. One cannot just throw up their arms and blame the party establishment for supposedly forcing Moore on them: Alabama Republicans actively wanted Moore, they wanted the man who thinks Muslims are backstabbers that need to be disbarred from all public office; the man that thinks we need to go back to literally imprisoning LGBT people for daring to exist; and who is literally on the record stating the U.S. was better when we enslaved people. Alabama Republicans voters are responsible for this alone.
[QUOTE=fulgrim;52967071]I would argue it takes a little bit of racism to hear a guy say he wants slavery back and still vote for him.
I mean, it would be a strawman to argue literally every one of his voters is a sworn member of the KKK- but I think it's pushing it to say racism is an insignificant low hanging fruit factor here.[/QUOTE]
So you think there is no reason, besides racism, that anyone is voting for him over his Democrat opponent? Nothing whatsoever? I exclude racism because it IS low hanging fruit when looking at the issue. Of course racists are going to vote for someone seen as racist. That goes without saying. It's the easy answer. Use your brain and find the other answers.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;52967062]The strawman is that all of his voters is racist, and are only voting for him because he is racist, not that he has racist voters. But please continue to make quips that completely ignore the question I've asked.[/QUOTE]
yeah tbh it's a bit of a dishonest quip. i know there will be non-racists voting for him, people who simply don't care, or know that much about politics and toe the party line just because. and then, there will be people who say they're voting for him for other reasons, and it doesn't matter to me whether they condemn his racism, or deny it entirely. as soon as you vote for him with knowledge of his statements, you're a racist in my book
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52967093]yeah tbh it's a bit of a dishonest quip. i know there will be non-racists voting for him, people who simply don't care, or know that much about politics and toe the party line just because. and then, there will be people who say they're voting for him for other reasons, and it doesn't matter to me whether they condemn his racism, or deny it entirely. as soon as you vote for him with knowledge of his statements, you're a racist in my book[/QUOTE]
Don't forget condoning molesting/harassing underage girls. Although, to be fair, the party of family values has never actually stated from which century those family values issue, and I guess given the era Roy Moore's obviously rolled out of, that and slave owning are valid family values.
[QUOTE=gman003-main;52967020]I'm wondering if Fox is deliberately skewing their polls towards Jones, to try to energize GOP voters who might otherwise skip, "since of course the Republican is going to win in Alabama". Their results seem to be consistently bluer than everyone else.[/QUOTE]
Could say the same for the other side- Jones' lead in this poll might drive Democrat voters not to come for the reason of "Hey, Jones might actually win this regardless of what we do."
If you want Jones to win, GET OUT THERE AND VOTE. Don't think he'll win- make sure he wins.
[QUOTE=gman003-main;52967020]I'm wondering if Fox is deliberately skewing their polls towards Jones, to try to energize GOP voters who might otherwise skip, "since of course the Republican is going to win in Alabama". Their results seem to be consistently bluer than everyone else.[/QUOTE]
Fox uses a wholly independent and pretty on-point pollster actually. no doubt that's how their "news" will spin it though
It all comes down to turnout, something which no one can [I]really[/I] predict
[media]https://twitter.com/MonmouthPoll/status/940288743478525952[/media]
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;52966767]I'm not saying they are my ideals, I'm saying they are others' ideals. That's why they are voting for him. Not because of what he has done in his private life.[/QUOTE]
I'm not accusing you of having those ideals. I'm pointing out that Roy Moore has demonstrated a disregard for the law, a disdain towards the rights of gays, transgendered people, and women, and has suggested multiple times (Were it just once it might have been considered a slip of the tongue - multiple times leaves no doubt) that America was better off when blacks were slaves and women couldn't vote. So not only does Moore have this holier-than-thou mentality, he's a hypocrite because he's a kiddy diddler, too. And whether or not you consider his pedophilia a 'private' matter, it makes a bold statement about his strength of character and how devout a man he truly is.
I'm also pointing out that knowing these things, anyone who votes for him is doing so for the wrong reasons, whatever their justification. If they share his ideals, they're degenerates. If they're voting for him because he's Republican and they're scared of Democrats, (Despite the fact Doug Jones is a very conservative candidate) they're idiots. If they're libertarians, still idiots, because libertarianism is a lie sold to gullible people to justify letting corporations fuck them up the ass.
Wow lol
Trump Super PAC Gets 12-Year-Old Girl To Interview Roy Moore
[url]http://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/trump-super-pac-girl-roy-moore_us_5a2e9698e4b0a290f05255a9#click=https://t.co/RdRZK6swFa[/url]
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52967093]yeah tbh it's a bit of a dishonest quip. i know there will be non-racists voting for him, people who simply don't care, or know that much about politics and toe the party line just because. and then, there will be people who say they're voting for him for other reasons, and it doesn't matter to me whether they condemn his racism, or deny it entirely. as soon as you vote for him with knowledge of his statements, you're a racist in my book[/QUOTE]
while that is all completely true, i'd bet a surprisingly large amount of the racists voting for Moore aren't just doing it [I]because[/I] they're racist. that kind of racism is just incidental to caring more about lower taxes than the livelihoods of people who aren't white, a mindset which people like Roy Moore rely upon
[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52967172]Wow lol
Trump Super PAC Gets 12-Year-Old Girl To Interview Roy Moore
[url]http://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/trump-super-pac-girl-roy-moore_us_5a2e9698e4b0a290f05255a9#click=https://t.co/RdRZK6swFa[/url][/QUOTE]
[quote]March opens her interview at Alabama GOP headquarters by asking Moore whether he’ll support Trump in building a wall between the United States and Mexico.[/quote]
Holy shit, this poor kid is fucking brainwashed.
[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52967172]Wow lol
Trump Super PAC Gets 12-Year-Old Girl To Interview Roy Moore
[url]http://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/trump-super-pac-girl-roy-moore_us_5a2e9698e4b0a290f05255a9#click=https://t.co/RdRZK6swFa[/url][/QUOTE]
But the real question is did she bring her yearbook for him to creepily sign?
Can the rest of you just kick all the Bible belt states out of the union? They can form their own country, and the rest of America embracing progress won't have them holding it back anymore.
Just imagine. Whatever remains of The United States would have a neighbouring country that would be completely economically deregulated for it to exploit. No minimum wage, no labour laws, no unions, no taxes - a Republican paradise - and a very good moneymaking opportunity for the blue states.
Of course, there'd have to be a border agreement between the two that would allow anyone who wished to move out of the red states access back into the USA and vice versa - for a few years, at least.
The problem as I see it is that the blue states and red have cultures that are so completely opposed to one another that there's no reconciling them anymore. The fact that Alabama would rather elect a pedophile than a Democrat is proof of this. The fact that Trump got elected at all is proof of this. It may be best for both sides if they separated, else the Southern states will forever hold back the rest of the country and keep the US from reaching its peak potential.
[QUOTE=archangel125;52967194]Can the rest of you just kick all the Bible belt states out of the union? They can form their own country, and the rest of America embracing progress won't have them holding it back anymore.
Just imagine. Whatever remains of The United States would have a neighbouring country that would be completely economically deregulated for it to exploit. No minimum wage, no labour laws, no unions, no taxes - a Republican paradise - and a very good moneymaking opportunity for the blue states.[/QUOTE]
Maybe we can use them for inexpensive labor and cheap goods as we completely ignore the source of their problems. We'd need some kind of border wall though.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;52967225]Maybe we can use them for inexpensive labor and cheap goods as we completely ignore the source of their problems. We'd need some kind of border wall though.[/QUOTE]
Hey, ostensibly this works out great for everyone. Red states finally get to vote the leaders they want into their federal government consistently, and they'll reap whatever reward the far right leaders they vote into office will sow for them.
The Blue states that form the new USA get to have more progressive political parties and no longer have to fear degenerates like Trump or Roy Moore being elected. In a couple of decades, I think the way both countries look will speak for the merits of each ideology.
I'm just waiting for Party Break-up 5: Electric Boogaloo
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;52967225]Maybe we can use them for inexpensive labor and cheap goods as we completely ignore the source of their problems. We'd need some kind of border wall though.[/QUOTE]
Y'all joke, but in the Richard K. Morgan standalone novel Thirteen, that's pretty much exactly what happens (It's cyberpunk dystopian fiction, like most of his stuff). Although, what started out as scathing, dark satire of American politics is starting to look eerily prophetic.
A member of the RNC has resigned in protest over the party's support for Roy Moore
[url]https://www.thedailybeast.com/nebraska-rnc-official-joyce-simmons-resigns-over-roy-moore[/url]
And I dunno if this was posted already but Alabama's senior senator Richard Shelby (R) has said he didn't vote for Roy Moore and hopes he doesn't win
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/10/politics/richard-shelby-roy-moore-sotu-cnntv/index.html[/url]
I heard they were running him and will force him to resign if he won, that way the governor can appoint a new GOP Senator.
Not really defending it either way, but it makes more sense.
Still its weird that they would rather take their chances with a known pedo, rather than support another candidate
[QUOTE=Saxon;52967340]I heard they were running him and will force him to resign if he won, that way the governor can appoint a new GOP Senator.
Not really defending it either way, but it makes more sense.
Still its weird that they would rather take their chances with a known pedo, rather than support another candidate[/QUOTE]
They lose either way, honestly. As shitty as it would be if Moore won, him getting elected is an absolute fucking disaster for GOP credibility among undecided voters. Further entrenching the established facsi- I mean conservatives into their beliefs while pushing everyone else away. Obviously Jones winning would be a serious blow too. They might try to fix it by kicking Moore out but that'll just piss off Alabama conservatives. They lose in every scenario.
It's really a losing situation for the Republican Party either way. They're either out an important seat, or they have to deal with Roy Moore being a senator and the baggage that comes with it.
off topic, but its sad, Alabama has some of the worst gerrymandering for the house of representatives. Of the state's seven districts, three of the representatives ran unopposed in 2016, and they all won with over 95% of the votes. They are two republicans and one dem, the only dem in AL's delegation to congress.
edit: look at this mess, from wikipedia
[t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/Alabama_Congressional_Districts%2C_113th_Congress.tif/lossy-page1-620px-Alabama_Congressional_Districts%2C_113th_Congress.tif.jpg[/t]
edit2: the yellow district is the democratic one, it has the two biggest cities in the state and three of the biggest colleges
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;52967417]off topic, but its sad, Alabama has some of the worst gerrymandering for the house of representatives. Of the state's seven districts, three of the representatives ran unopposed in 2016, and they all won with over 95% of the votes. They are two republicans and one dem, the only dem in AL's delegation to congress.
edit: look at this mess, from wikipedia
[t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/Alabama_Congressional_Districts%2C_113th_Congress.tif/lossy-page1-620px-Alabama_Congressional_Districts%2C_113th_Congress.tif.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
The next administration needs to force district mapping to be done by non-partisan groups
[QUOTE=archangel125;52967194]Can the rest of you just kick all the Bible belt states out of the union? They can form their own country, and the rest of America embracing progress won't have them holding it back anymore.[/QUOTE]
come on now, that wouldn't be fair on all the minorities living there. without america's federal govt. to stop them the southern states would probably bring back segregation and set up concentration camps for gay people
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;52967417]off topic, but its sad, Alabama has some of the worst gerrymandering for the house of representatives. Of the state's seven districts, three of the representatives ran unopposed in 2016, and they all won with over 95% of the votes. They are two republicans and one dem, the only dem in AL's delegation to congress.
edit: look at this mess, from wikipedia
[t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/Alabama_Congressional_Districts%2C_113th_Congress.tif/lossy-page1-620px-Alabama_Congressional_Districts%2C_113th_Congress.tif.jpg[/t]
edit2: the yellow district is the democratic one, it has the two biggest cities in the state and three of the biggest colleges[/QUOTE]
Texas has a pretty strong case too
[t]https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2017/03/11/texas-35-25810048abae74e2926130ee177bb5dfd1859e54-s900-c85.png[/t]
It gets really ridiculous when you zoom in on places like San Marcos. They picked out specific streets to make sure they got all the places where students live and none of the older neighborhoods.
Who wants to take bets that if Moore loses, that Trump is gonna do like what he's done in the past and do a hard 180, disendorsong Moore for never being good enough and that Trump actually never supported him?
[QUOTE=BF;52967501]Who wants to take bets that if Moore loses, that Trump is gonna do like what he's done in the past and do a hard 180, disendorsong Moore for never being good enough and that Trump actually never supported him?[/QUOTE]
He's already done that after Moore defeated his Trump-backed primary opponent
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/us/politics/trump-deletes-tweets.html[/url]
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