It's usually Israel doing these pointless hunts. Well, I'm sure this will give Germany some satisfaction or whatever they're looking for.
There's a point where's it's just a waste of resources and time to still hunt Nazi's (not the neo BS), and we're well past that.
I can understand if they were confiscating wealth accumulated by directly robbing the jewish people, but these guys are old geezers who's about to croak any second.
If anything then the court is stepping down to nazi level themselves by throwing them in prison if those geezers haven't committed any crimes in the last decades.
TL:DR
Hunting Nazis by being just as awful as Nazis is apparently A-OK.
[QUOTE=Bazsil;43990273]Why prosecute them for these horrible crimes, then? Why didn't we just let them go?[/QUOTE]
Because they [B]participated in the murder of millions of people[/B]
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;43990306]Because they [B]participated in the murder of millions of people[/B][/QUOTE]
But surely we must have benefited in some way from capturing/killing them.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43990230]a lot of camp guards were drafted.
Hell they used jews top control each of the bunk groups[/QUOTE]
You where not drafted into the SS
[QUOTE=The golden;43989801]Oh yeah, good job catching those dangerous criminals. These 90 year old men who are probably on their death-bed won't be a threat to anyone anymore!
Is this justice or is this just fucking childish revenge?[/QUOTE]
If you want the law to apply to everyone equally you can't just start saying that it's ok to give someone a pass because they're old. Least of all people who [i]literally worked in a death camp[/i].
It's a pretty fundamental facet of Rule of Law.
It's not like they need to be in a maximum security prison or anything but if you think they don't deserve to face charges that's asinine
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;43990333]You where not drafted into the SS[/QUOTE]
Do you have a source that it was SS guards around Auschwitz
Seems pretty silly to have your highly trained fighting force guarding dying prisoners.
Weren't most SS divisions on the eastern front anyway?
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;43990306]Because they [B]participated in the murder of millions of people[/B][/QUOTE]
It's not like they didn't have a choice or anything.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;43990306]Because they [B]participated in the murder of millions of people[/B][/QUOTE]
I don't know if I can read your buzzwords could u make that more bold for me
people participate in genocide
they get arrested
[I]fuck im so mad at justice[/I]
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;43990450]Do you charge the guy who changed the light bulbs with the same thing as you charge the dude who ran the gas chambers?[/QUOTE]
They were guards according to the article though.
As in, ensure large groups of people who enter the camp to be killed don't escape it.
The court ruling that [i]any[/i] worker in a camp is automatically accessory to murder is wrong in my opinion though.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;43990333]You where not drafted into the SS[/QUOTE]
Actually, there was SS divisions formed entirely or partly of conscripts.
I just asked my Jewish grandmother what she thinks of this. She was held in a concentration camp during WW2 and was one of the lucky ones who everything went right for and survived. (From what she tells me [I]the one she was in[/I] was just a holding camp and no one was ever killed unless they tried to escape or something to that extent.) Shes seen people starve to death and kill each other over food. The Nazis stole her childhood from her and gave her life that has been a struggle to this day. AND EVEN SHE THINKS THIS IS LUDICROUS.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;43990364]If you want the law to apply to everyone equally you can't just start saying that it's ok to give someone a pass because they're old. Least of all people who [i]literally worked in a death camp[/i].
It's a pretty fundamental facet of Rule of Law.
It's not like they need to be in a maximum security prison or anything but if you think they don't deserve to face charges that's asinine[/QUOTE] The soldiers that guard the camps are soldiers like anyone else in the war. She says its like if they started prosecuting the guards of the Japanese interment camps in america since we realize that was fucked up now. Most of the people in the nazi army are fallowing orders they cant disobey for a government that brought their country out of ruin.
also
BusterBluth you are literally retarded and vengeance hungry.
[QUOTE=Explosions;43990097]So my question is: what if they had been discovered 20 years ago when they were in their 70s? Would it be OK to imprison them then? What if they were in their 60s? 50s? What's the magic number that absolves you of responsibility for participating in genocide?[/QUOTE]
Do you guys not understand how many people where murdered in general in a war brought on by a power hungry man? Are you going to persecute every soldier that killed a Russian or a french person when Germany was invading because Germany was in the wrong?
[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;43990294]There's a point where's it's just a waste of resources and time to still hunt Nazi's (not the neo BS), and we're well past that.
I can understand if they were confiscating wealth accumulated by directly robbing the jewish people, but these guys are old geezers who's about to croak any second.
If anything then the court is stepping down to nazi level themselves by throwing them in prison if those geezers haven't committed any crimes in the last decades.
TL:DR
Hunting Nazis by being just as awful as Nazis is apparently A-OK.[/QUOTE]
Who knew that applying the law in a consistent manner regardless of the suspects predicament would be exactly as awful as the Nazis, notable for their complete lack of consistent application of laws or blatant flouting of them.
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;43990483][I] We found these names on this roster of guards, with no proof of them killing anyone, better charge them anyway, just to be sure [/I][/QUOTE]
I suppose it's not so much the killing anyone but more the allowing 1.1 million people pass through in full knowledge that most of them will be murdered.
Given the context, I don't know what I would've done back in WWII. Not that I'm supportive of Hitler, but I don't think I would've had much luck avoiding Nazism as a rebel or anything. It seems like all of the cards would've been played against me, and it seems like he took one of the lighter jobs. (as far as I know, he wasn't operating a death machine of doom)
I dunno. Nazism is bad, don't get me wrong, but Germany is so anti-Nazi that they come off weird. Germany's all, "Hey guys! Trust us! We're [i]not[/i] cool with our past, y'know? Look, see? SEE? LOOKY HERE TOTALLY AGAINST NAZIS."
They really don't have to be as brute force as they are - no one associates them with their past anymore.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;43990615]They didn't kill anyone though.. and they certainly couldn't shirk their duties, lest they get executed themselves.[/QUOTE]
I'm aware of that, which is why I don't think that they should be judged the same way as high ranking officers who actually called the shots.
I think it would be right for the court to see if they voluntarily joined the Nazi army or were drafted.
If it was the latter, I think it would be a complicated manner because they did what they did because they had to and had no other option (other than to die), and it wasn't their intent to participate in a system that mass murdered well over 10 million people.
And again, charging everyone with "accessory to murder" is wrong in my opinion, because in the same way they should also be charging members of the Judenräte with that. Did they want to see their own people (and probably themselves later) to be killed? Most likely not. But they did work inside the death camps similarly to draftees.
[QUOTE=Explosions;43990004]ITT: It's OK to work at a death camp as long as you get away with it for a long time.[/QUOTE]
Again, they probably thought they were being patriotic by helping their country. If America asked you to be a soldier and guard somewhere like Guantanamo Bay, A: You'd do it because if you didn't, you'd be thrown in the brig or thrown out for treason, and B: You'd do it because your country asked you too.
Just because they were guards doesn't mean they did anything relating to the extermination of the Jews. I'd understand if they caught high ranking founding members of the SS party, but they were guards who stood around and guarded shit.
Germany needs to stop acting like everyone still hates them for the whole Nazi thing, we get it you don't want to be related with the Nazis, going full peace mode and arresting anybody involved in world war 2 that wasn't part of the allies isn't the solution.
[QUOTE=OneFourth;43990456]people participate in genocide
they get arrested
[I]fuck im so mad at justice[/I][/QUOTE]
What justice is being served? They are old people who have already lived for many years after it happened. If they regret what they did they spent their lives suffering for it, if they don't they won't live long enough to reform over it in prison if they haven't by now.
Yeah, arresting them certainly will teach them a lesson.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;43990772]Never mind the fact that they were virtually powerless to stop it. Never mind the fact that if they shirked their responsibilities they'd be killed.[/QUOTE]
You make it out to be like resistance was not possible, when it very much was so. Obviously active resistance would lead to a noose around your neck, that's indisputable. However, passive resistance was possible. An example I know of involves a bunch of people from a reserve police battalion in Poland straight up refusing to kill Jews resulting in literally no punishment whatsoever. It was dirty work, they knew it, their superiors knew it and didn't blame for not wanting to do it.
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the massace in Jozefow is the one I'm thinking of. Sad thing is that even though people resisted others willingly went through with it having seen their comrades refuse to no punishment.
If ones bad that all must be bad, yea good thinking.
tbh anyone who didnt kill hitler was complicit in the holocaust
Pretty sure killing them might not really be as bad as living a lifetime remembering all the shit they've done
Germany doesn't even have the death penalty anymore. These guys are not going to be executed and presumably won't even spend time in prison if they are convicted. I'm not quite sure I understand the indignation over them honestly.
I'm not really sure on where I stand on the punishment of guards but throwing them away really won't protect society.
[QUOTE=DBFT;43990044]no it's just dumb and pretty useless to throw a bunch of withering potatoes into prison when they're going to die in less than ten years, regardless of whatever monstrosities they [i]may[/i] had part in, willingly or not.[/QUOTE]
So if you commit a crime you just have to wait a long time? What would be the Statute of limitations for this kind of stuff?
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43991118]I'm not really sure on where I stand on the punishment of guards but throwing them away really won't protect society.
So if you commit a crime you just have to wait a long time? What would be the Statute of limitations for this kind of stuff?[/QUOTE]
The justice system should rehabilitate those criminals who can be changed and protect us from those who can't. Imprisoning 90 year old men serves to do neither.
Lol at all the people in this thread who just keep regurgitating this same post over and over.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;43991010]You make it out to be like resistance was not possible, when it very much was so. Obviously active resistance would lead to a noose around your neck, that's indisputable. However, passive resistance was possible. An example I know of involves a bunch of people from a reserve police battalion in Poland straight up refusing to kill Jews resulting in literally no punishment whatsoever. It was dirty work, they knew it, their superiors knew it and didn't blame for not wanting to do it.
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the massace in Jozefow is the one I'm thinking of. Sad thing is that even though people resisted others willingly went through with it having seen their comrades refuse to no punishment.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that anyone should be punished for not being willing to risk their lives, as cowardly as it may be.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;43990103]Why did we even bother prosecuting war criminals right after WW2? Its not like they had the capacity to do anything after the fall of Nazi Germany[/QUOTE]
That's like saying Ratko Mladić and Radovan Karadžić didn't have the capacity to do anything after the Bosnian War.
We should prosecute the war criminals in the decade after. After then it should be null.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;43990103]Why did we even bother prosecuting war criminals right after WW2? Its not like they had the capacity to do anything after the fall of Nazi Germany[/QUOTE]
Because what they did was wrong. Sometimes you have to send a message and punish people. Its a shame that those useful to the allied powers were exempt from such persecutions.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;43991308]Statute of limitations for guarding?[/QUOTE]
Its Auschwitz...
[QUOTE=Explosions;43990004]ITT: It's OK to work at a death camp as long as you get away with it for a long time.[/QUOTE]
Yeah because I'm real sure that if you were put in the same situation of "do as the government says or die." You'd totally be a rightious rebel huh? No you'd bend over and get fucked like everyone else.
Not only this, but you're advocating the arrest of 80+ year old men for committing crimes they were forced by a government to commit when they were 16-20-something years old.
[QUOTE=Rofl_copter;43990412]I don't know if I can read your buzzwords could u make that more bold for me[/QUOTE]
you call those buzzwords? that's like, the mildest way you can describe the holocaust. i mean, i would have called it 'attempted systematic extermination of millions of people'. buzzwords lol
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=draugur;43991317]Yeah because I'm real sure that if you were put in the same situation of "do as the government says or die." You'd totally be a rightious rebel huh? No you'd bend over and get fucked like everyone else.
Not only this, but you're advocating the arrest of 80+ year old men for committing crimes they were forced by a government to commit.[/QUOTE]
and is he saying that if he did such a thing he should be exempt from the consequences?
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
the holocaust is probably the most horrific stain on humanity the modern world has ever given us, it should never be forgotten or forgiven, and personally i think every nazi deserves/deserved to die. 'i was just following orders!' is no excuse when we're talking about systematic extermination
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.