[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43991303]Because what they did was wrong. Sometimes you have to send a message and punish people. Its a shame that those useful to the allied powers were exempt from such persecutions.
Its Auschwitz...[/QUOTE]
sending a message and "punishing" people. Right.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991327]you call those buzzwords? that's like, the mildest way you can describe the holocaust. i mean, i would have called it 'attempted systematic extermination of millions of people'. buzzwords lol
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
and is he saying that if he did such a thing he should be exempt from the consequences?[/QUOTE]
Yeah man, every drafted german soldier who got guard duty is a fucking baby murderer.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991327]you call those buzzwords? that's like, the mildest way you can describe the holocaust. i mean, i would have called it 'attempted systematic extermination of millions of people'. buzzwords lol
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
and is he saying that if he did such a thing he should be exempt from the consequences?
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
the holocaust is probably the most horrific stain on humanity the modern world has ever given us, it should never be forgotten or forgiven, and personally i think every nazi deserves/deserved to die. 'i was just following orders!' is no excuse when we're talking about systematic extermination[/QUOTE]
No one deserves to die for their crimes. They should have served life maybe, but they pretty much already have. There is no point at all to trying to punish them now. All it does is waste resources so idiots like you can feel better and act out their sick revenge fantasies.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43991350]Yeah man, every drafted german soldier who got guard duty is a fucking baby murderer.[/QUOTE]
lol, we're talking about the guards at auchwitz, one of the most horrific death camps in the entire war (if not THE most horrific one) where guards routinely tortured, murdered and raped inhabitants
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=draugur;43991356]No one deserves to die for their crimes. They should have served life maybe, but they pretty much already have. There is no point at all to trying to punish them now. All it does is waste resources so idiots like you can feel better and act out their sick revenge fantasies.[/QUOTE]
sick revenge fantasy. lol. whatever man, this is nazi's we're talking about.
Why even bother arresting these people? Chances are, they didn't even do anything. If they were officers or scientists, I could understand, but fucking guards? Seriously!?
[QUOTE=businessPawn;43990674]
The soldiers that guard the camps are soldiers like anyone else in the war. She says its like if they started prosecuting the guards of the Japanese interment camps in america since we realize that was fucked up now. Most of the people in the nazi army are fallowing orders they cant disobey for a government that brought their country out of ruin.[/QUOTE]
Soldiers who participate in war crimes, whether they're German, Japanese, American, or anywhere else, should face charges.
Even if it's just a matter of finding them guilty and giving them a suspended sentence because they're in their 90s, war crimes need to be prosecuted evenly.
This is kind of ridiculous, but if they found them, well they have to do [I]something.[/I] This isn't exactly reasonable though.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;43990450]Do you charge the guy who changed the light bulbs with the same thing as you charge the dude who ran the gas chambers?[/QUOTE]
do you charge a guy who accidentally runs someone over with the same thing as you charge a guy who spends a month planning the murder of his ex? no
and even the law doesn't facilitate different charges the sentences can be different
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991365]lol, we're talking about the guards at auchwitz, one of the most horrific death camps in the entire war (if not THE most horrific one) where guards routinely tortured, murdered and raped inhabitants
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
sick revenge fantasy. lol. whatever man, this is nazi's we're talking about.[/QUOTE]
lolwut.
[quote]Ironically, contrary to the stereotypical image of the "Concentration Camp Guard", members of the Guard Battalion seldom, if ever, had direct contact with prisoners.[/quote]
Most camp guards literally just held the perimeter so idk what you're getting this from
WOW i never murdered any little kids, i just stood outside the door guarding the people who did! i never raped anyone, i just let people get raped! personally when it comes to horrific shit like this, i believe in crimes of omission. like whatever, maybe if i was in the same position i'd have been the same? i don't think so, personally i would rather die than stand back and let shit like that happen (but of course i'd like one of you to project your own cowardice on to me and say i wouldn't) but hey, if i DID sit back and let this kind of shit happen without at least TRYING to do something (or, as is the case for DEATH CAMP guards actively joined in) i would expect and deserve to be treated the same way
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991365]
sick revenge fantasy. lol. whatever man, this is nazi's we're talking about.[/QUOTE]
Are you stupid or something?
Equating a german soldier to a nazi is like saying every US soldier is a hardcore fundie republican
[editline]20th February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991406]WOW i never murdered any little kids, i just stood outside the door guarding the people who did! i never raped anyone, i just let people get raped! personally when it comes to horrific shit like this, i believe in crimes of omission. like whatever, maybe if i was in the same position i'd have been the same? i don't think so, personally i would rather die than stand back and let shit like that happen (but of course i'd like one of you to project your own cowardice on to me and say i wouldn't) but hey, if i DID sit back and let this kind of shit happen without at least TRYING to do something (or, as is the case for DEATH CAMP guards actively joined in) i would expect and deserve to be treated the same way[/QUOTE]
[quote]Ironically, contrary to the stereotypical image of the "Concentration Camp Guard", members of the Guard Battalion seldom, if ever, had direct contact with prisoners.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43991408]Are you stupid or something?
Equating a german soldier to a nazi is like saying every US soldier is a hardcore fundie republican
[editline]20th February 2014[/editline][/QUOTE]
okay so maybe they stood a little further away than the door, wow that changes alot. and no it's not the same as equating that. it would be the same as say, equating US soldiers who stood by and let shit like the my lai massacres happen to whatever
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;43991417]Is guarding a war crime?[/QUOTE]
it is when you're guarding a camp made specifically for exterminating people
[QUOTE=Zeke129;43991384]Soldiers who participate in war crimes, whether they're German, Japanese, American, or anywhere else, should face charges.
Even if it's just a matter of finding them guilty and giving them a suspended sentence because they're in their 90s, war crimes need to be prosecuted evenly.[/QUOTE]
War crime implies they both
A. Participated in war crimes
B. Had a choice in these participations.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;43991450]So if I work for a CEO that does illegal things, I should get in trouble because of what he does?[/QUOTE]
if you knew about it, yes
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991429]okay so maybe they stood a little further away than the door, wow that changes alot. and no it's not the same as equating that. it would be the same as say, equating US soldiers who stood by and let shit like the my lai massacres happen to whatever
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
it is when you're guarding a camp made specifically for exterminating people[/QUOTE]
so tell me what these camp guards were supposed to do?
Desert their posts (and have their families shot in all likelihood)?
Try a prison break? (and fail horribly)
They didn't volunteer for these posts. Nor did they have the contact required to perpetrate most of these crimes.
Take note that I don't doubt some guards DID do war crimes. I'm just saying that prosecuting them based only on them being a camp guard is stupid.
snip
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991458]if you knew about it, yes[/QUOTE]
What the hell do you expect some german grunt to do about the extermination camps?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43991467]so tell me what these camp guards were supposed to do?
Desert their posts (and have their families shot in all likelihood)?
Try a prison break? (and fail horribly)
They didn't volunteer for these posts. Nor did they have the contact required to perpetrate most of these crimes.
[B]
Take note that I don't doubt some guards DID do war crimes. I'm just saying that prosecuting them based only on them being a camp guard is stupid.[/B][/QUOTE]
i agree with this to the point where, i think the conviction should fit the evidence
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43991472]What the hell do you expect some german grunt to do about the extermination camps?[/QUOTE]
anything
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991488]i agree with this to the point where, i think the conviction should fit the evidence
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
anything[/QUOTE]
oh my god are you challenged?
You honestly think some german soldier grunt who goes against his superiors and does "anything" about the camps is going to be alive soon after he does it?
Do you think his family would be ok? Germany was willing to kill Rommels family; what makes you think that they'd give two shits about some grunt?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43991515]oh my god are you challenged?
You honestly think some german soldier grunt who goes against his superiors and does "anything" about the camps is going to be alive soon after he does it?
Do you think his family would be ok? Germany was willing to kill Rommels family; what makes you think that they'd give two shits about some grunt?[/QUOTE]
i guess this is where we differ, i don't think fear of consequences is an excuse for not only not doing the right thing, but not doing anything when what is basically the most horrific thing of the age is happening
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43991442]War crime implies they both
A. Participated in war crimes
B. Had a choice in these participations.[/QUOTE]
look
if they were forced to do it, or didn't know what was going on, etc, they'll bring it up at their trial
as it stands now they were guards at auschwitz and I think that's grounds for a trial
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991524]i guess this is where we differ, i don't think fear of consequences is an excuse for not only not doing the right thing, but not doing anything when what is basically the most horrific thing of the age is happening[/QUOTE]
Fear for you family is a pretty valid excuse to do nothing unless your a sociopath.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43991537]Fear for you family is a pretty valid excuse to do nothing unless your a sociopath.[/QUOTE]
yes i am a sociopath because my empathy for groups that are being exterminated in the most horrific ways is greater than fear for my life and the lives of my family
[QUOTE=Zeke129;43991527]look
if they were forced to do it, or didn't know what was going on, etc, they'll bring it up at their trial[/QUOTE]
"guily until proven innocent"
What you're saying is that they should be arrested because they may have done [I]something[/I] and that they'll have to prove that they didn't in court.
Tell me whats wrong with that line of thought.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;43991542]Then why don't you, right now, go donate spare organs and all your money to charity?
I mean, fuck consequences when you can do the right thing, right?[/QUOTE]
lol what are you on about
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991546]yes i am a sociopath because my empathy for groups that are being exterminated in the most horrific ways is greater than fear for my life and the lives of my family[/QUOTE]
Yes you are.
we're talking about the holocaust here renegade cop so how about you stay on topic
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43991554]Yes you are.[/QUOTE]
you don't know what a sociopath is lol don't use terms you don't understand
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;43991558]Using another example to show how your logic on "Do the right thing!!" is flawed.[/QUOTE]
except i'm just talking about the holocaust
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991556]we're talking about the holocaust here renegade cop so how about you stay on topic
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
you don't know what a sociopath is lol don't use terms you don't understand[/QUOTE]
You're trying to get people to agree with you by using Buzz words like "holocaust, raped thousands etc"
But the guard who did this is just some military grunt who was in the camp guard battalion that rarely had contact with the prisoners unless an escape or something happened.
You're saying its ok to arrest these people without hard evidence because they were associated with the holocaust.
Should we arrest the Jew's the nazi's used to control the camp blocks?
Should we arrest the foreign draftees who guarded the camps as well?
[editline]20th February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991556]
you don't know what a sociopath is lol don't use terms you don't understand[/QUOTE]
You are willing to let your family get killed without a moments thought so you could try (in vain) to do something about the camps.
Tell me whats wrong with that logic
edit: actually I'll just tell you.
You're being more empathetic to strangers then your own family.
wow
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