[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991833]why do you keep ignoring the part where i say that maybe you're right and i would do as you said, but that if i did i would deserve anything that came to me as a result[/QUOTE]
Except you wouldn't?
do you think every prison guard should be charged when one of them beats an inmate?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43991837]Thats what I should be asking you so you can prove your accusations.[/QUOTE]
the article doesn't say. it says they were guards, so they've been arrested, and i guess the evidence will be presented and that will or wont result in a conviction and judgement based on that
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991429]
it is when you're guarding a camp made specifically for exterminating people[/QUOTE]
what if youre guarding the country that contains the camp? or the country allied with the country that contains the camp?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43991848]Except you wouldn't?
do you think every prison guard should be charged when one of them beats an inmate?[/QUOTE]
if they knew it happened, and did nothing then yes
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=abcpea;43991858]what if youre guarding the country that contains the camp? or the country allied with the country that contains the camp?[/QUOTE]
i dunno i'm not the lawmaker, according to the article it's 'A court decided that by being a worker at a concentration camp he was guilty of being an accessory to murder.' so i guess not but it's kind of a different situation what you're saying anyway, considering noone else really knew the extent of the holocaust until they found the camps
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;43991859]Because you keep droning on about your morals and ethics. You say that, but after saying it you essentially go: "yea but if I was there i'd do this and it'd be badass, just like the movies".[/QUOTE]
really? i don't recall saying anything like that. i said 'maybe i would maybe i wouldnt' because as you guys have said, it's not like i know until i'm in such a situation, i like to think i would act how i believe i would, but if i didn't i would deserve exactly the judgements i'd dole out to the other people or whatever
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;43991870]Why would you do anything if you, your family, and your friends, will all suffer for you "doing something".[/QUOTE]
hopefully they'd understand
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991862]if they knew it happened, and did nothing then yes
[/QUOTE]
You see your morality works up until the point that you think about it for more then two seconds.
Trying to do something about the camps will result in your family getting killed and not a single death being prevented.
This simply adds to the preexisting deathtoll.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991757]but like, the thing is, people are people, it's not like just because you're not in command you suddenly lose all power of independent thought [/QUOTE]
Good people do bad things at "gun point". For the most part they shouldn't be held responsible. Even the doctors who performed experiments sometimes managed to escape imprisonment because of positive comments from ex-prisoners.
You have your hand on two buttons.
Each button kills a group but one button kills two groups.
What button are you going to press?
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991878]
hopefully they'd understand[/QUOTE]
No they wouldn't fucking understand you dunce.
Not as their kids are killed in front of them and they're tortured to death.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43991901]You have your hand on two buttons.
Each button kills a group but one button kills two groups.
What button are you going to press?[/QUOTE]
neither button, even if that means all 3 groups die
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991929]neither button, even if that means all 3 groups die[/QUOTE]
Then you're worse then the Nazis.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43991938]Then you're worse then the Nazis.[/QUOTE]
aw yup. that actually makes sense, i am in fact worse than the group that wanted to both take over the world, and systematically exterminate: jews, polish people, roms, crippled people, handicapped people, gay people and whatever other sorts of people hitler decided to add to the list
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
and thus i won't cry foul when i am arrested age 90
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991950]aw yup. that actually makes sense, i am in fact worse than the group that wanted to both take over the world, and systematically exterminate: jews, polish people, roms, crippled people, handicapped people, gay people and whatever other sorts of people hitler decided to add to the list[/QUOTE]
wow way to completely take what I said out of context.
Since it went over your head I'll elaborate for you.
The nazi's were only going to kill one group. Your intervention results in two groups being killed yet you did it knowing that it wouldn't do anything besides kill more people.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43991959]wow way to completely take what I said out of context.
Since it went over your head I'll elaborate for you.
The nazi's were only going to kill one group. Your intervention results in two groups being killed yet you did it knowing that it wouldn't do anything besides kill more people.[/QUOTE]
i took 'you're worse than the nazis' out of context
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;43991962]Aww how cute, you still think this is a movie, where if you say "no Im not doing that" everyone will stop and start clapping. Hey, let me bring you to the real world: you pull the same stunt, a guy shoots you in the back of the head, then pushes a button. You die for nothing.[/QUOTE]
oh well? if it's going to happen anyway then i'd rather not be apart of it than be apart of it just because it will happen regardless
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991967]i took 'you're worse than the nazis' out of context
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
oh well? if it's going to happen anyway then i'd rather not be apart of it than be apart of it just because it will happen regardless[/QUOTE]
But it would make you worse then them.
Your direct actions do nothing but kill more people yet you do it regardless of the futility of the outcome.
It's selfish.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43991967]
oh well? if it's going to happen anyway then i'd rather not be apart of it than be apart of it just because it will happen regardless[/QUOTE]
But you make other people a part of it and have them killed just so you can satisfy your (posthumous) self righteousness.
[editline]20th February 2014[/editline]
You're trying to stop a tsunami by putting your family in the path.
i would kill all the nazis with my bear hands
You guys are fast approaching a point where you could say engaging in genocide to the fullest of your ability in the hopes of gaining enough prestige and power as to stop it from occurring is the moral action.
my bare bear hands
i.e: you are ruthless pragmatist cynics who should avoid all positions of power and influence lest you go off and start a war as some sort of quasi-moral realpolitik
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;43992022]You guys are fast approaching a point where you could say engaging in genocide to the fullest of your ability in the hopes of gaining enough prestige and power as to stop it from occurring is the moral action.[/QUOTE]
Except we aren't.
We're saying some grunt in a guard battalion going against his superiors and trying to stop the holocaust will accomplish literally nothing besides having his family shot and killed.
[editline]20th February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;43992032]i.e: you are ruthless pragmatist cynics who should avoid all positions of power and influence lest you go off and start a war as some sort of quasi-moral realpolitik[/QUOTE]
Yes we're ruthless pragmatist cynics because we believe that a grunt soldier in a guard battalion has about the same chance of stopping the holocaust as an egg has to stop a freight train.
Why does it have to be some heroic act in the hypothetical act of resistance? I've already given an example where passive resistance was allowed, which resulted in zero punishment. Are there even really instances where guard's families were dragged off and killed because someone took too many sick days off?
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;43991992]So you'd rather, by your lack of testicular fortitude, have you and your family die, just so you can say "but i was a hero." You really are a special kind of uneducated person. Hopefully your family isn't tortured too badly before they kill them too, thanks to your "acts"[/QUOTE]
'lack of testicular fortitude' i wonder if you think that's witty? yes i must be uneducated, else i'd be saying such witty things. fairly sure all you guys are defending is doing anything so long as the fear for your own life or the lives of your family is great enough
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43991994]But you make other people a part of it and have them killed just so you can satisfy your (posthumous) self righteousness.
[editline]20th February 2014[/editline]
You're trying to stop a tsunami by putting your family in the path.[/QUOTE]
so if nazi's kill your family, it's your fault for not appeasing them?
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43991981]But it would make you worse then them.
Your direct actions do nothing but kill more people yet you do it regardless of the futility of the outcome.
It's selfish.[/QUOTE]
so not engaging in or actively opposing something like the holocaust makes you worse than nazis because you and your family could die because of it?
No. Its you're fault for putting your family at risk to satisfy your self-righteousness.
[editline]20th February 2014[/editline]
What exactly gives you the right to speak for your family and put them in such a position?
Holey moley I guess people should avoid rocking the boat at all just in case it winds up with some negative outcome occurring regardless of how shitty the current situation is.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;43992102]Hey it's been fun and all, but I've got a date with the real world that I must attend to, its been fun living in your fantasy hero world, i'm sure i'll come back if I need a dose of naive.[/QUOTE]
'lack of testicular fortitude'
No they shouldn't avoid rocking the boat.
They should avoid doing something that doesn't even raise awareness of an issue and that ends with more deaths.
i have a pressing engagement at the local pseudo-intellectuals club!
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43992124]No they shouldn't avoid rocking the boat.
They should avoid doing something that doesn't even raise awareness of an issue and that ends with more deaths.[/QUOTE]
such as stand around guarding camps where people are exterminated
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43992115]'lack of testicular fortitude'[/QUOTE]
You don't have the metaphorical balls to live with something you had no choice in and would rather put your family at risk then have a guilty conscience.
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