[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43992134]such as stand around guarding camps where people are exterminated[/QUOTE]
Or you could try to help in more subtle ways then going full retard. This way you survive until the end of the war (it was pretty obvious Germany was losing by 1944) and use your testimony against those that actually gave the orders.
[editline]20th February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43992128]i have a pressing engagement at the local pseudo-intellectuals club![/QUOTE]
I bet you'd fit right in.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;43992142]Do you have a real world example of you applying your morals? Since you so claim to "not value anyone more or less than yourself" surely you give up your seat on the bus all the time, you must help old ladies across the street, and you're the perfect shining example of humanity.
Because I'll be honest.. I dont. I might give up my seat if i'm not tired as fuck, and yea, i'll help the old lady if she's going the same way as I am, but i'm not going to go out of my way all the time, unlike you, since you're obviously of superior moral.[/QUOTE]
ah yes, because giving up your seat on the bus or helping old ladies across the street is comparable to standing by and doing nothing as a thoroughly evil regime attempts to exterminate entire races
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
well, i guess if the death camp is on the way home i might help out!
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43992147]Or you could try to help in more subtle ways then going full retard. This way you survive until the end of the war (it was pretty obvious Germany was losing by 1944) and use your testimony against those that actually gave the orders.
[editline]20th February 2014[/editline]
I bet you'd fit right in.[/QUOTE]
and if any of those subtle ways got found out then oops we're back at 'you and your whole family die' so no that's out sorry. and are you trying to say these guys did that? because obviously they didn't.
the most they could have done was to tell the outside world, but nobody would believe it
'i bet you'd fit right in' did the guy who said to me
'what an eloquent way to refute my statement.
It's almost as if you posted "I have nothing to post so I'll make a witty two word rebuttal". '
just post that?
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43992164]
and if any of those subtle ways got found out then oops we're back at 'you and your whole family die' so no that's out sorry. and are you trying to say these guys did that? because obviously they didn't.[/QUOTE]
Yes because you know literally all the things these men did at the camps.
There are literally thousands of instances where camp guards did small things to help prisoners because they couldn't do anything else.
[editline]20th February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43992187]'i bet you'd fit right in' did the guy who said to me
'what an eloquent way to refute my statement.
It's almost as if you posted "I have nothing to post so I'll make a witty two word rebuttal". '
just post that?[/QUOTE]
because my post had actual substance and the post I replied to was irrelevant ad hominem.
Can anyone actually give me an example where some SS Auschwitz guard said "I'd rather not" and was promptly Nazi-murdered along with their family? Because I have a sneaking suspicion everyone here is talking out of their arse in some weird indignation over possible former war-criminals.
what ridiculous arguments you make. i never even mentioned my conscious at all
I mean the best I can find is an order saying if a guard doesn't shoot someone they can expect an immediate dismissal.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;43992207]Can anyone actually give me an example where some SS Auschwitz guard said "I'd rather not" and was promptly Nazi-murdered along with their family? Because I have a sneaking suspicion everyone here is talking out of their arse in some weird indignation over possible former war-criminals.[/QUOTE]
dude the nazi's were willing to kill fucking rommel and his family.
What makes you think they'd think twice about shooting some dissident grunt?
imagine going this hard out because someone says they wouldn't be a nazi and that they think nazi's deserve to be jailed
the point is it isnt fair to attack someone for being a guard, without knowing what they did or what they went through.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43992224]dude the nazi's were willing to kill fucking rommel and his family.
What makes you think they'd think twice about shooting some dissident grunt?[/QUOTE]
because rommel was a high ranking member of the nazi party who was plotting to assassinate hitler
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43992228]imagine going this hard out because someone says they wouldn't be a nazi and that they think nazi's deserve to be jailed[/QUOTE]
No I'm going "hard out" because you keep fucking insinuating all Germans were nazi's.
[QUOTE=abcpea;43992232]the point is it isnt fair to attack someone for being a guard, without knowing what they did or what they went through.[/QUOTE]
i've said earlier that i think evidence should be presented and convictions handed out accordingly
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43992224]dude the nazi's were willing to kill fucking rommel and his family.
What makes you think they'd think twice about shooting some dissident grunt?[/QUOTE]
It's not like Rommel was implicated in an attempt on Hitlers life or anything... oh wait.
My point was originally that they shouldn't arrest the guards based on association.
But then Lachzor decided that he had to keep proclaiming moral superiority over everyone and it derailed the argument.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;43992242]It's not like Rommel was implicated in an attempt on Hitlers life or anything... oh wait.[/QUOTE]
So you think some random grunt who just tried to help a bunch of prisoners escape is going to fare better?
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43992240]i've said earlier that i think evidence should be presented and convictions handed out accordingly[/QUOTE]
Yes but they were arrested before they had the evidence so far as we know.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43992245]My point was originally that they shouldn't arrest the guards based on association.
But then Lachzor decided that he had to keep proclaiming moral superiority over everyone and it derailed the argument.[/QUOTE]
i dunno if i'm proclaiming moral superiority, i'm fairly sure we all have the same morals here i just think maybe i'm more unflinching in mine?
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43992258]Yes but they were arrested before they had the evidence so far as we know.[/QUOTE]
arrests aren't convictions
What is with you guys and going hard or going home? an Auschwitz guard would have been able to resist enabling genocide in a way which doesn't involve some obviously outlandish heroic act of resistance.
Woah Lachz0r is a modern day inglorious bastard
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;43992267]What is with you guys and going hard or going home? an Auschwitz guard would have been able to resist enabling genocide in a way which doesn't involve some obviously outlandish heroic act of resistance.[/QUOTE]
That's exactly what I said.
We're arguing with Lachzors belief that he would actually accomplish somethin by "going hard"
I'm so utterly confused.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43992272]That's exactly what I said.
We're arguing with Lachzors belief that he would actually accomplish somethin by "going hard"[/QUOTE]
you ever read that poem 'first they came for the trade unionists and i did nothing because i was not a unionist' or whatever? or heard that quote 'evil succeeds when good people do nothing' ?
This all seems like a moot point anyway since LachZor would never need to be in the position of being a camp guard as these men allegedly were since he wouldn't have joined the SS in the first place (presumably)
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;43992284]I'm so utterly confused.[/QUOTE]
The original argument was whether or not arresting them without evidence of crime was justified. Then Lachzor went on his moral superiority tirade and we were busy telling him how dumb it was.
I wholeheartedly believe that guards should help the prisoners. I don't believe in doing something stupidly overt that would result in your family being killed.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;43992298]This all seems like a moot point anyway since LachZor would never need to be in the position of being a camp guard as these men allegedly were since he wouldn't have joined the SS in the first place (presumably)[/QUOTE]
except alot of SS WERE draftees near the end of the war. but i'm still not sure that auchwitz and the other extermination camps were staffed by draftees since despite what others think, i don't believe many people would stand by and let those kind of atrocities occur if they knew about them
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43992295]you ever read that poem 'first they came for the trade unionists and i did nothing because i was not a unionist' or whatever? or heard that quote 'evil succeeds when good people do nothing' ?[/QUOTE]
I can pull up quotes too
[quote]“But it is the same with man as with the tree. The more he seeks to rise into the height and light, the more vigorously do his roots struggle earthword, downword, into the dark, the deep - into evil.” [/quote]
[editline]20th February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43992312]except alot of SS WERE draftees near the end of the war. but i'm still not sure that auchwitz and the other extermination camps were staffed by draftees since despite what others think, i don't believe many people would stand by and let those kind of atrocities occur if they knew about them[/QUOTE]
dude they had JEWISH people help control the camps.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43992300]The original argument was whether or not arresting them without evidence of crime was justified. Then Lachzor went on his moral superiority tirade and we were busy telling him how dumb it was.
I wholeheartedly believe that guards should help the prisoners. I don't believe in doing something stupidly overt that would result in your family being killed.[/QUOTE]
i guess i'm just assuming but i'm fairly sure they must have SOME sort of evidence proving that they were guards (and according to the article, being a guard at an extermination camp can get you accessory to murder) so i think the arrest is entirely justified, but i agree that convictions (depending on the severity of the conviction) should require more evidence than 'they were a guard'
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43992318]I can pull up quotes too
[editline]20th February 2014[/editline]
dude they had JEWISH people help control the camps.[/QUOTE]
yes, jewish people that they were planning on exterminating afterwards
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43992330]
yes, jewish people that they were planning on exterminating afterwards[/QUOTE]
how does that refute my post? If anything it reinforces it.
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