Wisconsin Senate Leader Fitzgerald Removes Representation Of 2.2 Million American Votes
197 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Glaber;28617875]
Go back to school and take those reading classes over again. That's not what my statement was about. My statement was about Responsibility.[/QUOTE]
I don't see why you are being so hostile to me, I agree that they weren't responsible.
It's a good thing that the Republican's don't have the responsibility of having discussion time for bills they put forward.
[QUOTE=Carbon Knight;28617914]I don't see why you are being so hostile to me, I agree that they weren't responsible.
It's a good thing that the Republican's don't have the responsibility of having discussion time for bills they put forward.[/QUOTE]
Ok, ok, it just sounded like you were twisting my words on my other posts.
I'm not absolving the Republicans for rushing this. While true that I supported the bill, I don't like the fact that they were rushing it.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28618001]Ok, ok, it just sounded like you were twisting my words on my other posts.
I'm not absolving the Republicans for rushing this. While true that I supported the bill, I don't like the fact that they were rushing it.[/QUOTE]
It's good that we are on the same page now.
Unlike the democrats who were given no time to actually read the bill and therefore couldn't fairly vote on it.
[QUOTE=Dalndox;28618069]I love how Glaber is, once again, too dense to recognize a troll when he's basically waving a sign that says "TROLL".
[/QUOTE]
This man is obviously a communist.
I love how Glaber is, once again, too dense to recognize a troll when he's basically waving a sign that says "TROLL".
Stay classy, Carbon Knight. :v:
[QUOTE=s0beit;28616865]Perhaps, they still violated the rules of the senate and perhaps even the law. This isn't like any other job where you can just walk out, it isn't Vietnam.
That said if Republicans did this every time a gay marriage, abortion, services etc. vote came up people would be freaking the fuck out and i wouldn't advocate that either. It's a dangerous precedent to set and an exploitation of the quorum requirement.
You can hate Republicans all you want and i don't disagree, but this is an entirely separate issue that you're all making a game out of, irresponsibly.
[editline]e[/editline]
protip: Republicans, third parties everywhere get fucked over all the time as well in legislation. This isn't something new.[/QUOTE]
Wasn't the governor putting the bill through without even consulting the Democrats or taking it to their mini-congress? I'm pretty sure that's completely in the face of democracy. Obviously we would have protested Republicans walking out on the concepts you listed because they're pretty much general human rights.
Is it a human right to deny another human right? (abortion issue)
[QUOTE=Glaber;28618137]Is it a human right to deny another human right? (abortion issue)[/QUOTE]
Um Glaber this really isn't our strong point.
-Same Sex Marriage
-Refusing to allow democrats to vote
-Rape Clauses
Let's just stick to saying family values.
[QUOTE=Earthen;28618110]Obviously we would have protested Republicans walking out on the concepts you listed because they're pretty much general human rights.[/QUOTE]
But they did it to represent their constituents in the only way they could!
It's democracy :downs:
My point is disagree all you like, this is a fucking horrible thing to do and i can't believe they ever considered it. This isn't a direct democracy and in fact it isn't a democracy at all, it's a constitutional, representative republic. According to our laws (and good ones, i might add) they are in violation. It wasn't even a "democratic action" when they left.
I don't think this was the proper way to punish them but it was still stupid, ridiculous and reckless and a practice which if continued by either party will be fucking disastrous.
Democracy was them being voted into majority, it isn't required they be partisan about anything. Sure it'll draw them negative attention and might cost them seats in the future. Good.
From somebody who hates both parties equally: Stop trying to justify something incredibly stupid.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28618137]Is it a human right to deny another human right? (abortion issue)[/QUOTE]
It depends, are the 2.2 million unrepresented (which makes it sound bad, but considering ~46% of the American population is unrepresented because they don't bother to vote) cells in Walker's body?
Do they require him for sustenance, which cannot be provided by any other source?
Will they die without him?
[QUOTE=Contag;28618763]It depends, are the 2.2 million unrepresented (which makes it sound bad, but considering ~46% of the American population is unrepresented because they don't bother to vote) cells in Walker's body?
Do they require him for sustenance, which cannot be provided by any other source?
Will they die without him?[/QUOTE]
I was about to say something about how the US should implement some sort of mandatory voting system to solve that, but then I remembered how the Aussies dedicate voting day to getting hammered. [img]http://i54.tinypic.com/25ipsfb.png[/img]
[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;28615528]Well hey, that's what happens when you ditch and run to another state.[/QUOTE]
Are you really so arrogant and so proudly republican you don't see this as wrong?
Republicans are ruining my country just because they will do whatever it takes to oppose the Democrats.
At least, that is how I view the situation.
Every thread Glaber takes part in inevitably gets derailed.
[editline]15th March 2011[/editline]
Lambeth's Law(TM)
This HAS to be enough to do something that is worthwile. As in toss the idiot out.
[QUOTE=deathstarboot;28618929]I was about to say something about how the US should implement some sort of mandatory voting system to solve that, but then I remembered how the Aussies dedicate voting day to getting hammered. [img_thumb]http://i54.tinypic.com/25ipsfb.png[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
Exactly. The biggest problem of democracy is that it is fundamentally participatory.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28618001]Ok, ok, it just sounded like you were twisting my words on my other posts.
I'm not absolving the Republicans for rushing this. While true that I supported the bill, I don't like the fact that they were rushing it.[/QUOTE]
you aren't absolving the Republicans?
fucknig liberal communist
you hate america
get the fuck out of my country unless you support the party 100%
[editline]15th March 2011[/editline]
imagine an eagle crying
he's crying about communists like you ruining america, glaber
[QUOTE=Glaber;28618137]Is it a human right to deny another human right? (abortion issue)[/QUOTE]
Abortions are usually performed on what is essentially a bag of cells. However, is it right to deny homosexuals the right to marriage? A concept universally acknowledge and is simply a controversial issue because some whiny people want a monopoly on a fucking word.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28617246][Citation Requested]
Please use this site: [URL]http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html[/URL]
Also WHAT KIND OF PUNISHMENT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE INSTEAD?!
These democrats can't go unpunished otherwise Republicans can use this tactic too. Do you think I want THAT to happen? You need to think "If my side does this, what's to stop the other side from doing this too?".
Lead by example.[/QUOTE]
Voting is a protected right which may not be denied to citizens by the States or the federal government:
[URL]http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am14[/URL]
[URL]http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am15[/URL]
Given the primary effect of voting is to have effective representatives, and that is being denied, this would be an unconstitutional act.
An alternative punishment would not involve stopping them from voting. It doesn't matter what that particular punishment is, but preventing them from voting goes far, far beyond the realm of punishment. However, the punishment should be first given to the Republicans who did everything in their power to (successfully) bypass Democrats to eliminate [URL="http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml#a23"]key rights[/URL] from citizens.
If the Democrats were trying to abuse the democratic process and deny rights to huge numbers of citizens, I would expect the Republicans to do whatever they can to stop them. "What's stopping the other side from doing it?" isn't the question/problem. "Why don't they defend rights more often?" is.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28618137]Is it a human right to deny another human right? (abortion issue)[/QUOTE]
Roe V. Wade already handles this rather elegantly
[QUOTE]'The shots and the photos of those senators at that rally just made me sick to my stomach. I mean, I just think it proves again how out of touch they are with what we went through over the last three weeks here,' Fitzgerald said.[/QUOTE]
Because the Republicans totally have the the right to make that claim.
[QUOTE=Billiam;28622180]Because the Republicans totally have the the right to make that claim.[/QUOTE]
It's as if a massive information platform that is in a majority of places doesn't exist.
I used to think tarring and feathering was a cruel and unusual punishment but it's starting to look really attractive right now
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;28623116]I used to think tarring and feathering was a cruel and unusual punishment but it's starting to look really attractive right now[/QUOTE]
I used to think exploiting rules to disenfranchise 2 million people was a poor idea but it's starting to look really attractive right now.
[quote][B]MADISON, Wis. -- [/B]Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald said Tuesday that he is rescinding his decision to disallow committee votes from the 14 Democratic senators who fled to Illinois.On Monday, Fitzgerald said he still considered the 14 Democrats in contempt of the Senate.They left Wisconsin in an attempt to stop the collective bargaining bill from being passed."This is our good faith effort to get on with the business of the Senate," Sen. President Mike Ellis said."It's really much more about, are the Democrats going to be available and be there and debate both the governors budget and any other bills that we bring up, and I've been given assurances that that's going to happen," Fitzgerald said.Senate leadership is also rescinding the $100 a day fines imposed on the senators for missing Senate sessions and any other punitive actions."It's time to move on," Ellis said.[/quote]
[url]http://www.wisn.com/politics/27201397/detail.html[/url]
Well, he is now deciding to no longer be a idiot... I think.
[QUOTE=jordguitar;28626376][url]http://www.wisn.com/politics/27201397/detail.html[/url]
Well, he is now deciding to no longer be a idiot... I think.[/QUOTE]
Well that's good to hear. The bill removing collective bargaining still shouldn't have gone through, though.
I don't support what's going on in this case whatsoever, I think it's a terrible idea to take away their voting power in committee meetings. But can someone please explain the details to me of why it's a bad thing that the republicans voted without the democrats on the first issue? From what I've seen, it seems like they gave the democrats plenty of time to come back, it's not like they just locked the doors and voted without letting them in like they used to do back in the 1700's. They gave the democrats plenty of time to come back, and they didn't, so the republicans voted without them. If we're gonna challenge the issue, is it really a good idea to set the precedent that the opposing party can totally halt all legislation if they think that something they oppose is going to get passed? It seems like you guys are only mad because it's the democrats that this happened to. It seems like if it was the republicans that ran out you would all be saying 'go on and vote without them, they had their chance to vote and they ran away'.
That's my view on the subject. Anyone care to convince me otherwise?
[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;28631638]I don't support what's going on in this case whatsoever, I think it's a terrible idea to take away their voting power in committee meetings. But can someone please explain the details to me of why it's a bad thing that the republicans voted without the democrats on the first issue? From what I've seen, it seems like they gave the democrats plenty of time to come back, it's not like they just locked the doors and voted without letting them in like they used to do back in the 1700's. They gave the democrats plenty of time to come back, and they didn't, so the republicans voted without them. If we're gonna challenge the issue, is it really a good idea to set the precedent that the opposing party can totally halt all legislation if they think that something they oppose is going to get passed? It seems like you guys are only mad because it's the democrats that this happened to. It seems like if it was the republicans that ran out you would all be saying 'go on and vote without them, they had their chance to vote and they ran away'.
That's my view on the subject. Anyone care to convince me otherwise?[/QUOTE]
the issue is really that the republicans took the vote and ignored the democrats. The democrats ran away to stop the voting because the republicans outright ignored them. There was a video of the republicans and the democrats sitting down together and the republicans called the meeting whilst the democrat was trying to get them to talk about what they were doing.
Can someone please link said video?
[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;28631700]Can someone please link said video?[/QUOTE]
I agree, it was in another thread a while back, but all I can find are shortened versions on youtube.
[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;28631700]Can someone please link said video?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Lazor;28529075][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5sx-4i5y0E&tracker=False[/media]
it's almost as if Wisconsin Republicans want to be viewed as evil.[/QUOTE]
[editline]16th March 2011[/editline]
There you go, had to go trudging for it.
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