• U.S. unemployment is down. Consumer confidence is up. Inflation is low. Yet many Americans feel the
    135 replies, posted
I hate working sometimes too but when you live and coexist together with another person, everything is 4000000000x easier and life seems way better.
People feel that way because, by and large, they AREN'T better off. The rich are doing so well that they're skewing the economic numbers upwards. For most of us, wages are flat (or lower) and we still haven't recovered from the losses of the recession. The unemployment rate is bullshit, it doesn't account for people that have permanently given up on work or been forced to take low-paid jobs or fewer hours. The stock market is meaningless because the vast majority of Americans weren't in any position to take buy in and take advantage of the "recovery". The Wall Streeters are fiddling while the rest of the country burns. Economically speaking. The vast, vast majority of people haven't recovered from the crash, and aren't going to recover before the next one.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;46307477]People feel that way because, by and large, they AREN'T better off. The rich are doing so well that they're skewing the economic numbers upwards. For most of us, wages are flat (or lower) and we still haven't recovered from the losses of the recession. The unemployment rate is bullshit, it doesn't account for people that have permanently given up on work or been forced to take low-paid jobs or fewer hours. The stock market is meaningless because the vast majority of Americans weren't in any position to take buy in and take advantage of the "recovery". The Wall Streeters are fiddling while the rest of the country burns. Economically speaking. The vast, vast majority of people haven't recovered from the crash, and aren't going to recover before the next one.[/QUOTE] Yes let's all be pessimists and blame the "rich" instead of working up their skillset and such.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;46307538]There isn't a whole lot of "PULL YOUR BOOT STRAPS UP" that's going to fix the issue at hand. "oh just work up their skillset", most people can't afford to attend all of the college you'd need to get a job that would grant you a wage that could be considered "high" in the US.[/QUOTE] Man if only there was this place of intertwined networks of information where you could read and study these things for free [url]http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2729[/url]
[QUOTE]Great Recession[/QUOTE] Is it actually called this now? Is this the historical term? [editline]ads[/editline] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recession"]It is.[/URL]
Iunno how it is in the rest of the country but in Michigan things aren't much better. there are more "help wanted" signs in front of McDonalds but the job market is still shit.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;46307555]Man if only there was this place of intertwined networks of information where you could read and study these things for free [url]http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2729[/url][/QUOTE] Yeah, good luck getting a job with your claim to ability being you are self taught and used the internet. I'm not sure how delusional you think all of us are, but we sure as hell aren't as delusional as you.
I feel its still shit because food prices are crazy. To go by the chart in the OP, back in 1995 I could get all of the stuff to make a meatloaf with all the trimmings and dessert for $20. Now a days It costs $45 for the exact same meal sans dessert. Pretty much everything except "junk" foods like frozen pizzas cost two and a half times more than they did. Odds are prices are not going down and I am unable to get enough money to keep up with them.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;46307593]If only practical knowledge ment more than a super expensive piece of paper. Oh wait. It doesn't. Just because I have all the knowledge to be a doctor doesn't make me a doctor. Just because someone has all the knowledge to be a lawyer doesn't make them a lawyer. You can't say "oh I know all of these things" and not have the piece of paper to prove it. Your words mean shit without a diploma.[/QUOTE] Meh didn't stop be from making 55K+ before 25. But your way is the way you want to live so whatever. [QUOTE=draugur;46307597]Yeah, good luck getting a job with your claim to ability being you are self taught and used the internet. I'm not sure how delusional you think all of us are, but we sure as hell aren't as delusional as you.[/QUOTE] Works fine for the trade fields, which have a lot of good paying jobs, IT, programming, etc
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;46307636]So because you lucked out, everyone else can luck out? And just how many 55k+ jobs are available to someone with no college experience that don't require a massive portfolio? Do you realize just how impractical your advice is? Or are you deluded?[/QUOTE] I have college experience just no degree(like 30 or 40 credit hours?), fought for internships, then worked my way up and changed jobs for more raises and networked with people at other companies for higher pay. But hey try it your way.
That graph is horribly done.
[QUOTE=Metalcastr;46306390]Because it is still shit, and living in America is expensive. On top of that there are hilariously bad job offers that want a university education, 5+ years of experience, for 10-16$ per hour or equivalent salary. I did not work my ass off through college and various jobs to be poor.[/QUOTE] Making over 300 dollars in a week is nothing to sneeze at. College didn't promise you that you were going to be rich.
Marx pointed out that part of the reason capitalism sucks is that when shit goes sideways, step one is pay your workers less. You can always squeeze the workers to maintain your profit margins. So shit went bad, wages crapped out, and now things are better and profits are up, but that improvement has only helped those in control of production.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;46307688]What about the people who flat out can't afford to go to college?[/quote] Yeah I couldn't I had to work multiple jobs, live in an apartment with 3 other people and eat those dollar meals for a few years. It sucks but without hard work then I don't know what you expect. [quote]Furthermore what happens when these positions fill and companies start saying "hey, too fucking bad, go get a piece of paper or don't come back at all".[/quote] I generally don't work for those companies because they generally want policy management over getting work done as an engineer. I'd just apply to other places, or network with some people at a user group, CC, or whatever. [quote]Because almost every industry started with "yea, if you work hard you can go far" and then turned into "if you work hard, and have the requisite college degree, you can go far", and then turned into "if you have a college degree, you can go far", and has finally turned into "if you have a college degree, we'll look at your resume".[/QUOTE] If that's what your job field is like then that's what it is. Try it your way man, not saying you are wrong, we all have different ways of doing things.
[QUOTE=ImperialGuard;46307730]Making over 300 dollars in a week is nothing to sneeze at. College didn't promise you that you were going to be rich.[/QUOTE] 300 bucks a week puts you at the poverty line. To actually not be poor, you need roughly twice the poverty line.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;46307620] Works fine for the trade fields, which have a lot of good paying jobs, IT, programming, etc[/QUOTE] I have 3 years of active experience in IT as a job (not even as a hobby or just helping friends/family, a real fucking job, I was IT for the local community college for 2 years and then worked IT for the city for 1 after that.) and I wasn't even able to get a job at Geek Squad because I didn't have an associates in comp sci/comp sec/ something related. Before that I've always had a hobby for building computers and fixing computer components, which I learned from my dad who used to run his own IT business. Just because you make 55k+ before 25 and got fucking lucky on it doesn't mean all of us can. Again, you're delusional and think that your life = every other person's potential for life.
I believe that most people dont think the economy has gotten better because of the price of utilities and fuel continue to rise. Oh man, the price of gasoline was $2.84 (in my area for reference) for a whole 3 days. That in many peoples eyes brings enjoyment. Now that gas is back up to the $3+ (same as above, in my area for reference) mark, its as if nothing changed. Same goes for utilities. Internet: Up. Natural Gas: Up. Electricity: Up. Water: Up. If you really want to see some confidence, start making changes where everyday people can see it. Everyday people do not give 2 shits about what the stock market is. They care more about what a bushel of corn is going for. I wanna go back to paying <$2.50/Gal. Yea, $2.50 is my happy level. Thats not even low compared to when I first started driving.
Just a personal anecdote, but the majority of the people I know in my age group (whom, like myself, have just recently graduated high school and are now attending college) have a great deal of trouble finding work. I've taken up a job that despite being extremely physical only pays $10 an hour. It's the only job I could get - not a single job offer anywhere else, regardless of my best efforts. I'm picking up my bootstraps and et cetera, but it's hard to feel good about things when I work as hard as my father yet can't support myself and have no other options for work. And even then, I'm still lucky to have a job. Then again I live in California which is apparently shit for businesses.
College doesn't guarantee a good job. I have seen many people through my college career that have no passion, drive, and are literally basically just passing the time getting a degree that sounded interesting to them, rather than something that was a sound choice. The feeling is that you can go to college, get your degree and waltz into a cush easy job simply because you have a degree, but lack practical skills. The people that I have known that have left school to get a good job off the bat were the people who took every option they could to further their connections and skills while in school and had their heart in it, or they took a conservative but valuable degree in something like insurance or accounting where they know there are plenty of openings. Want to get a job out of college? Stay away from Liberal-arts and utilize all avenues your presented through internships and school programs. Says a 3D Design BFA, so actually scrap everything I said and make pretty things.
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;46308421]Just a personal anecdote, but the majority of the people I know in my age group (whom, like myself, have just recently graduated high school and are now attending college) have a great deal of trouble finding work. I've taken up a job that despite being extremely physical only pays $10 an hour. It's the only job I could get - not a single job offer anywhere else, regardless of my best efforts. I'm picking up my bootstraps and et cetera, but it's hard to feel good about things when I work as hard as my father yet can't support myself and have no other options for work. And even then, I'm still lucky to have a job. Then again I live in California which is apparently shit for businesses.[/QUOTE] As a bit of a personal anecdote myself, I know a family who owns a gas station. In fact, a chain of gas stations. These people are members of a high-end golf course, own their house outright (several hundered thousand dollars that they built themself), own several cars (all luxury), go out to dinner at 4-5 star restaurants on the regular, and the wife was just recently complaining to a friend of mine about gasoline prices. Not that gas prices are too high, mind. That they aren't at the same level they were at in 2008, which was when they were making the highest profit margins. With "low" gas prices, they aren't making as much money as they were six years ago, and are now looking at low 10 figures in their bank account rather than high 10 figures in their account. Not all rich people are this way, I know, but the fact that some (probably most) are this way is one of the biggest issues facing our generation and all coming generations.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;46307513]Yes let's all be pessimists and blame the "rich" instead of working up their skillset and such.[/QUOTE] when i work for a corporation for 11K for an night shift job that is understaffed, making me work 40 hour weeks of minimum wage with only 4 vacation days after a year of hard labor, then cut even more of my benefits and cutting my hours every other month to prevent me from getting full time (like it mattered, literally dime raises every year) I expect some kind of kick back at all. People in fucking europe get paid $14 an hour for sitting behind a register overnight. Every day i worked my ass off and got home right before the sun rose so i could get some kind of sleep. After working it for over a year I was about to just give up everything because nothing was happening for me at all, especially seeing that i only made 11K for what was essentially warehouse work overnight. But no, can't blame greedy assholes who rather circlejerk each other off with money while their workers are literally killing themselves so they can turn a bigger profit. before you say "better yourself" 1. It was nearly impossible to even plan anything since i would be called in randomly and the schedule was never the same every week. 2. Motivation tends to just fucking get obliterated when you're working your ass off and get little sleep with a tiny paycheck. If corporations would actually fucking pay their workers a decent wage, there would be assloads of more buying power to the vast majority of poor and middle class. That would cause a massive economic boom because people won't have to live paycheck to paycheck and spend more on luxuries. The economy is in the shitter just because how fucking strangled the middle and lower class is at the moment. Not enough money is being pumped into either and its killing off the service industry that america is standing on top of.
[QUOTE=codemaster85;46308832]when i work for a corporation for 11K for an night shift job that is understaffed, making me work 40 hour weeks of minimum wage with only 4 vacation days after a year of hard labor, then cut even more of my benefits and cutting my hours every other month to prevent me from getting full time (like it mattered, literally dime raises every year) I expect some kind of kick back at all.[/QUOTE] Why? They don't owe you anything beyond what you agreed to work for. If it's unfair then quit and get another job. If you are unable to get a better job, then they are either giving you at or above what you're worth. To demand more benefits/money is to demand charity. If that's what you want, fine, but don't pretend like you're entitled to more.
So... let me lay this out perfectly clear. The reason why this number has increased is because staffing agencies have taken a larger share in the market. Most mid to low level positions in warehouses/industrial, mid-level engineering/ technical and clerical/administrative are being conquered by the world of third party help (staffing agencies). These positions are strictly temporary ( or Evaluation to Hire ) and will be gone when the need for the extra help is no longer there. Yes these are positive numbers... but this does not... for once second, fix the issue that our skill set positions are rapidly dropping. The amount of companies I work with day in and day out are completely changing their business model to cope with this alarming fact. The job market in the United States has changed and unless the attitude for what employment really means molds itself into the true manifestation of the word, we are looking at a bleak horizon for the job seeker in the next 10 years. Source: I work for a major Staffing Agency as a Head Hunter. BE VERY CAUTIOUS. Tips: Resume = 1 page.. Nothing more. (EVER) -Apply smart not massively... word gets around quick of a desperate worker and Job Seeker. -Use staffing firms for low level to low-mid range positions. Everything else- use head hunters and Career Builder. -Do not EVER use: A picture of yourself, your religion, your physical attributes, or a personal story (those are real examples I’ve come across) -Focus on job duties and not Job Titles (Make Job titles vague - Recruiters will read the details as long as they are pulled up on a Boolean search in their normal websites they use… LinkedIn Recruiter, Career Builder, Monster) -For the love of god- GO TO EVERY INTERVIEW - Word will get around if your prompt, on time, and give a good impression, even if its not worth your time… you’d be surprised how word get around. The job market has changed... and so should you. If you need more help PM me. But seriously... take this news with a massive grain of salt.
[QUOTE=sgman91;46308905]Why? They don't owe you anything beyond what you agreed to work for. If it's unfair then quit and get another job. If you are unable to get a better job, then they are either giving you at or above what you're worth. To demand more benefits/money is to demand charity. If that's what you want, fine, but don't pretend like you're entitled to more.[/QUOTE] Because they don't warn you that its going to be understaffed and my hours being slammed against me, exactly how much work i would be doing, and the fact that [B]the whole fucking chain will crumble if any of us just got up and quit[/B] should make them pay for what we do. I had no choice and was forced to take it or I am out of jobs in my area since not everyone lives in a huge metro area with buses or subways to get to and from work. Put it this way; if our workers weren't there to pull massive pallets off the trucks, sort them, and put them on the shelves, make sure inventory is correct, and put multiple pallets of meat/fish/veggies into the freezer or fridge, there would be no customers. No customers means no cashiers/managers/accountants/PR workers/or CEOs. But nah, these people are losers who chose to have that job for shits and giggles, its not like they have bills to pay or are trying to better themselves so fuck em, rather count my triple digit income for cutting any kind of slack they could ever have.
[QUOTE=sgman91;46308905]Why? They don't owe you anything beyond what you agreed to work for. If it's unfair then quit and get another job. If you are unable to get a better job, then they are either giving you at or above what you're worth. To demand more benefits/money is to demand charity. If that's what you want, fine, but don't pretend like you're entitled to more.[/QUOTE] Have you ever had a job? If yes, have you ever had a job that fucked you over? Also how old are you because you just don't seem to get anything about the way jobs work, especially with the way they are today. You can't just quit willy fucking nilly and prance around the corner to that dream job you've always wanted, and "To demand more benefits/money is to demand charity"? Is that a joke? Money, [i]maybe[/i], but benefits?? I work at a factory that doesn't offer any sort of healthcare plan, and that to me is absolutely absurd and just plain wrong.
[QUOTE=codemaster85;46308932]Because they don't warn you that its going to be understaffed and my hours being slammed against me, exactly how much work i would be doing, and the fact that [B]the whole fucking chain will crumble if any of us just got up and quit[/B] should make them pay for what we do. I had no choice and was forced to take it or I am out of jobs in my area since not everyone lives in a huge metro area with buses or subways to get to and from work.[/QUOTE] If what you say is true, then you should leave and have them beg you back for more money. They don't really have a choice since they are going to crumble without you, right? I would guess that the real scenario is that they just hire another person for a very similar wage to what you're getting paid now. [editline]22nd October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=LSK;46308947]Have you ever had a job? If yes, have you ever had a job that fucked you over? Also how old are you because you just don't seem to get anything about the way jobs work, especially with the way they are today. You can't just quit willy fucking nilly and prance around the corner to that dream job you've always wanted, and "To demand more benefits/money is to demand charity"? Is that a joke? Money, [I]maybe[/I], but benefits??[/QUOTE] I live in the real world where people only owe you what they agreed to pay you, nothing more and nothing less. I've had multiple jobs and paid my own way through college working full time at a fast food restaurant for slightly above minimum wage. I made sure that I got a degree that would easily and quickly turn into a steady job (electrical engineering) and now I don't really have to worry about it. I would never agree to work for a job that wasn't paying me fairly. The big difference is the way that you and I define fairness. I look at it as the market wage and you look at it as what you think you're worth.
[QUOTE=Lu-Cuss;46307726]That graph is horribly done.[/QUOTE] Fuck it, this is better. [IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/111996868/2014-2/general/goodchart.JPG[/IMG] But hey! The difference isn't so bad if you present it logarithmically :v: [IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/111996868/2014-2/general/logarithmic.JPG[/IMG]
[QUOTE=sgman91;46308963]If what you say is true, then you should leave and have them beg you back for more money. They don't really have a choice since they are going to crumble without you, right? I would guess that the real scenario is that they just hire another person for a very similar wage to what you're getting paid now. [editline]22nd October 2014[/editline] I've had multiple jobs and paid my own way through college working full time at a fast food restaurant for slightly above minimum wage. I made sure that I got a degree that would easily and quickly turn into a steady job (electrical engineering) and now I don't really have to worry about it. I would never agree to work for a job that wasn't paying me fairly. The big difference is the way that you and I define fairness. I look at it as the market wage and you look at it as what you think you're worth.[/QUOTE] I look at it as what I need to get by, not what I'm worth. Why did I agree to it? I had no other choice. I didn't want to, it was something I needed to do to keep a roof over my head and get the bills paid.
[QUOTE=sgman91;46308963]If what you say is true, then you should leave and have them beg you back for more money. They don't really have a choice since they are going to crumble without you, right? I would guess that the real scenario is that they just hire another person for a very similar wage to what you're getting paid now. [editline]22nd October 2014[/editline] I've had multiple jobs and paid my own way through college working full time at a fast food restaurant for slightly above minimum wage. I made sure that I got a degree that would easily and quickly turn into a steady job (electrical engineering) and now I don't really have to worry about it.[/QUOTE] its not just me, its every fucking worker in the labor industry. People are losing hours rapidly and pay just so stockholders and CEOs can watch their profit margins fucking explode. They are stomping the middle class out and completely nuking the lower class. Sooner or later that's going to bite them in the ass because their main consumer base is going to choke out and again fall down to a recession or depression.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;46307513]Yes let's all be pessimists and blame the "rich" instead of working up their skillset and such.[/QUOTE] So blame the poor instead for being too lazy?
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