• U.S. unemployment is down. Consumer confidence is up. Inflation is low. Yet many Americans feel the
    135 replies, posted
Part of it is economic problems (40-50 years ago the average adult male in the US could support his wife and children in a bought house on his job alone. These days both parents need to be working, often multiple jobs and even then they get stretched thin) the other part of it is attitudes towards working have changed. We're the first generation that places a higher emphasis for jobs on "fulfillment" over "job security". Post WW2 people valued just having a secure, paying job. Most of us in generation Y have grown up with a sense of entitlement that we're meant to be "somebody" in the world. Our generation also scores higher on narcissism across the 18-30 age range than any previous generation. You can argue till the cows come home over whether we're justified in wanting more out of a job than just a paycheck, but it is something to think about. Given certain economic realities, I wonder if we'll break that tradition instead raising our children to believe that the value of a dollar is greater than the value of having a "career"
[QUOTE=sgman91;46308905]Why? They don't owe you anything beyond what you agreed to work for. If it's unfair then quit and get another job. If you are unable to get a better job, then they are either giving you at or above what you're worth. To demand more benefits/money is to demand charity. If that's what you want, fine, but don't pretend like you're entitled to more.[/QUOTE] holy shit! this post is so free market!
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;46309081]You wot? It's not like the market is so awesome that you can quit your job and go get another one in the same day, with the same pay. If you have any bills at all and are barely making enough to make ends meet, you can't just go "fuck this I quit", you'll have no money saved up and no safety net set up. You could very well starve before you actually started getting paid at another job.[/QUOTE] You don't have to quit in order to look/apply/etc. for other jobs. Usually people have their next job already set up before quitting.
[IMG]http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/dam/assets/141021105525-median-household-income-620xa.jpg[/IMG] what cunt made this graph
[QUOTE=lazyguy;46309361][IMG]http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/dam/assets/141021105525-median-household-income-620xa.jpg[/IMG] what cunt made this graph[/QUOTE] Even though it looks rather off, it kind of does makes sense in a way. $51,719 in 1995 is worth $79,057 in 2013 adjusted for inflation. $80,779 in 2014 according to the [url=http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm]Bureau of Labor Statistics[/url]. That's a difference of almost $30K, and that's really saying something about the average American income in recent years.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;46309225]With what free time? If you looked at his schedule, he's pretty much booked solid on "shit to do". It's not like your employer is going to be totally cool with you applying for jobs on their computers. It's not as easy to just "find another job", especially because there are parts of this country where literally no one is hiring. You can keep the job you have, or you can starve. Those are your options. And before you say "just move", moving costs upwards of 900+ dollars, and that's with getting a UHAUL and some friends to help you move. Fuel is fucking expensive and so is lodging, food is too.[/QUOTE] He said that he was working a 40 hour week. That gives plenty of time to spend 30 min - 1 hour every day looking for a new job. I assume he isn't in the middle of nowhere if he's working in a warehouse that's open for a night shift.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;46307620]Meh didn't stop be from making 55K+ before 25. But your way is the way you want to live so whatever. [/QUOTE] Wish I had a bat to knock you off that horse, but I fear I may have to get behind a long line of people to.
[QUOTE=sgman91;46309481]He said that he was working a 40 hour week. That gives plenty of time to spend 30 min - 1 hour every day looking for a new job. I assume he isn't in the middle of nowhere if he's working in a warehouse that's open for a night shift.[/QUOTE] Actually that's exactly where warehouses like to be - in nonresidential or sparesly populated areas. Besides that point, say he does get another job. What then? Even if he gets [I]incredibly lucky[/I] and doesn't have to work as hard, chances are he'll still be making the same amount of money. Extremely few employers will pay more than a few dollars above minimum wage for jobs that don't require a degree and three years experience to apply. That's not all that ridiculous for "easy" (relative) jobs like fast food positions, but when you go and work your ass off until physical exhaustion for peanuts it starts to feel a little bullshit. Not to mention the "experience" one gains at a job like that is worth dick-all for higher paying positions. It isn't a fucking cakewalk to get a high paying job and the day you're old enough to start being NEET you'll understand that.
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;46309578]Actually that's exactly where warehouses like to be - in nonresidential or sparesly populated areas. Besides that point, say he does get another job. What then? Even if he gets [I]incredibly lucky[/I] and doesn't have to work as hard, chances are he'll still be making the same amount of money. So extremely few employers will pay above minimum wage or a few dollars above minimum wage for jobs that don't require a degree and three years experience to apply. That's not all that ridiculous for "easy" (relative) jobs like fast food positions, but when you go and work your ass off until physical exhaustion for peanuts it starts to feel a little bullshit. Not to mention the "experience" one gains at a job like that is worth dick-all for higher paying positions. It isn't a fucking cakewalk to get a high paying job and the day you're old enough to stop being NEET you'll understand that.[/QUOTE] That's just false. The vast majority of jobs pay over minimum wage. In fact, only 4.3 percent of jobs were paid at or below the minimum wage (including tipped jobs which often make much more). ([URL]http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2013.pdf[/URL]) It takes a minimum level of skill and experience to get more than minimum. If all you're doing is manual labor, then sure, it's going to be tough to make much more. You aren't doing anything that essentially every person on the planet can do with little training.
[QUOTE=sgman91;46309596]That's just false. The vast majority of jobs pay over minimum wage. In fact, only 4.3 percent of jobs were paid at or below the minimum wage (including tipped jobs). ([URL]http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2013.pdf[/URL]) It takes a minimum level of skill and experience to get more than minimum.[/QUOTE] Current minimum wage in my state is $8.25, and I get paid higher than that. $8.35 Wooo!...
[QUOTE=sgman91;46309596]That's just false. The vast majority of jobs pay over minimum wage. In fact, only 4.3 percent of jobs were paid at or below the minimum wage (including tipped jobs which often make much more). ([URL]http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2013.pdf[/URL]) It takes a minimum level of skill and experience to get more than minimum.[/QUOTE] I initially phrased it poorly, but I did include "or a few dollars above minimum wage". A couple of dollars above minimum wage still isn't a living wage. Minimum wage here is $9, and the mass majority of no-experience jobs pay between $10 and $12 dollars. If you'd like to regurgitate a statistic that includes near-minimum wage jobs, that'd be a bit more relevant. [editline]23rd October 2014[/editline] And before you bring it up, no I'm not taking a stance for or against raising the minimum wage. I simply believe that employers should pay their employees fairly based on what work they do.
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;46309620]And before you bring it up, no I'm not taking a stance on raising the minimum wage. I simply believe that employers should pay their employees fairly based on what work they do. Getting paid the same for hard manual labor as standing behind a cash register is bullshit regardless of the legality of it in a free market.[/QUOTE] No job has a set worth. The only way to have a non-arbitrary value on labor is through the market. Often times, physical work is the worst paid work because anyone can do it. It doesn't take a lot of knowledge, skill, or expertise. On the other hand, even simple people skills are very difficult to train if someone doesn't already have them. There's a reason even most technical jobs have a behavioral interview. Many employers would rather hire someone who is able to successfully work in a team, but has less knowledge, than a super smart guy who can't cooperate to save his life.
I think the economy is still shit these days, we still stuck in minimum wage land where most of the job offer crappy hours of part-time work, and not enough mola to pay a $100 bill. An average job such as retail, depending on where you work, only offers you around 20 hours with a pay of 7.20, which is not enough to live by. I still see our AAA games cost 60 dollars and not 50 like it was back in the day, plus those season passes and DLC's are expansive as hell, mostly ranking up the price to at least $90, when the price of both DLC and the game should not be that high (i really wish it was at least $75). Have you also seen the prices of your local theater foods? over here where I am at, a single bottle of water will cost you $3 dollars... which is crazy. [editline]23rd October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=sgman91;46309644]No job has a set worth. The only way to have a non-arbitrary value on labor is through the market. Often times, physical work is the worst paid work because anyone can do it. It doesn't take a lot of knowledge, skill, or expertise. On the other hand, even simple people skills are very difficult to train if someone doesn't already have them. There's a reason even most technical jobs have a behavior interview. Many employers would rather hire someone who is able to successfully work in a team, but has less knowledge, than a super smart guy who can't cooperate to save his life.[/QUOTE] sadly those "physical" jobs that I work at, such as retail stores and Warehousing are physical based jobs and we have them everywhere here in kentucky.
[QUOTE=sgman91;46309644]No job has a set worth. The only way to have a non-arbitrary value on labor is through the market. Often times, physical work is the worst paid work because anyone can do it. It doesn't take a lot of knowledge, skill, or expertise. On the other hand, even simple people skills are very difficult to train if someone doesn't already have them. There's a reason even most technical jobs have a behavior interview. Many employers would rather hire someone who is able to successfully work in a team, but has less knowledge, than a super smart guy who can't cooperate to save his life.[/QUOTE] But see that's my point. The market doesn't exist as you think it does. The market is this: - Jobs requiring a degree and/or years of experience - Jobs that pay at or barely above minimum wage It's an over generalization yes, but that's how it exists for most people. I can't just tell my employer "you're not paying me enough, I quit" and magically get another job that will pay me more. I don't have my degree or experience yet, so for all practical purposes I'm stuck at my current pay no matter where I go. [editline]23rd October 2014[/editline] I guess my point is employers don't offer "competitive pay" as it seems you believe they do because they've got a pretty down-pat system of "accept near-minimum wage or you don't have a job anywhere".
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;46309682]"competitive pay"[/QUOTE] Whenever a job says that in my area it means, "literally minimum wage". I always wanted to ask how the absolute minimum that the law allows an employer to pay is considered competitive.
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;46311645]Whenever a job says that in my area it means, "literally minimum wage". I always wanted to ask how the absolute minimum that the law allows an employer to pay is considered competitive.[/QUOTE] ... it means they pay what others in the industry pay. A "competitive" rate for someone working at McDonalds is not going to be the same for someone who works as a pilot.
I have to keep reminding myself that there was a time where going to college was something that not everyone did. Now it's a requirement. Now it's like you need two degrees to stand out. My suggestion is to go to a trade school. At least there you will learn skills that apply to specific jobs. If you can, go to a trade school that also gives associates and bachelor degrees. It doesn't matter as much anymore [i]where[/i] you get a college degree from as long as you [i]have[/i] a college degree.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;46311725]... it means they pay what others in the industry pay. A "competitive" rate for someone working at McDonalds is not going to be the same for someone who works as a pilot.[/QUOTE] I never said I wanted to work at mcdonalds and make a pilots wage, but if you say, "competitive wages" and you're looking for a burger flipper I think 50c-$1 more than minimum wage is competitive. Paying minimum wage and not a penny more is not competitive.
-nevermind-
[QUOTE=sgman91;46308905]Why? They don't owe you anything beyond what you agreed to work for. If it's unfair then quit and get another job. If you are unable to get a better job, then they are either giving you at or above what you're worth. To demand more benefits/money is to demand charity. If that's what you want, fine, but don't pretend like you're entitled to more.[/QUOTE] Where is this mythical land you live where there's jobs that people can just fucking stroll into?
[QUOTE=Metalcastr;46306390]Because it is still shit, and living in America is expensive. On top of that there are hilariously bad job offers that want a university education, 5+ years of experience, for 10-16$ per hour or equivalent salary. I did not work my ass off through college and various jobs to be poor.[/QUOTE] What have you studied?
[QUOTE=Lambeth;46307209][IMG]http://i.cubeupload.com/wZ5F9s.jpg[/IMG] Every way?[/QUOTE] i don't even think hitler could look this evil while drinking out of a little pink teacup
It's still shit because the average salary has barely flickered despite a price increase across the board. Maybe if gas stays where it is at, prices might normalize and [I]then[/I] the economy will seem a bit better, but there is no denying the average American has come out of this recession worse off than before it, and this whole "recession is over guys, honestly" thing people are trying to push is because the recession is over [I]for large businesses and their owners.[/I] That means barely fuck all for the normal people, besides maybe an increase in employment, but unless they are forced too, companies won't increase salaries much.
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;46313901]It's still shit because the average salary has barely flickered despite a price increase across the board. Maybe if gas stays where it is at, prices might normalize and [I]then[/I] the economy will seem a bit better, but there is no denying the average American has come out of this recession worse off than before it, and this whole "recession is over guys, honestly" thing people are trying to push is because the recession is over [I]for large businesses and their owners.[/I] That means barely fuck all for the normal people, besides maybe an increase in employment, but unless they are forced too, companies won't increase salaries much.[/QUOTE] Recession = GDP shrinkage. That's been over for years now. "General public malaise about the economy" is not a recession.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;46306970]I did unskilled summer work here for 12€ an hour. Face it, 16 dollars an hour is not what a university grad should be making.[/QUOTE] I've been at my job for 5 years and I only make €8.50 an hour =/ "Economy is in the shitter, no can do on that raise"
[QUOTE=Explosions;46313994]Recession = GDP shrinkage. That's been over for years now. "General public malaise about the economy" is not a recession.[/QUOTE] Argue technicalities all you want, it won't change the fact that the American people in general are worse off.
People feel like the economy is shit because prices for everything ([I]especially[/I] college) have risen.
Man, I reckon you US people have such an awful system. Like really, it was awesome back before the 1960's but after it.... just....no, hell no. Unions are fucked over all the time, there is no FREE college/tertiary education which in my opinion for the biggest and most technified economy in the world the worst decision it can take. It is just killing your future against the Chinese, no good labour laws which can protect the employee and so on. Now, just because all of that happens, doesn't mean the most basic rules of capitalism don't apply or are invented by some greedy Wl St CEO's. Business can't just like that raise prices. They can't raise salaries like that. They can't do a fuck ton of things just like that because they would go bankrupt in record time. If you try to go balls against capitalism and try to fight it like if people didn't want to live with capitalism... you will end up like Argentina, or worse, Venezuela: State employees on the rise, private jobs being destroyed, 40% annual inflation, factories shutting down, foreign firms going out through the exit, etc etc. Yes, classical economy theories such as perfect rational individuals don't apply nowadays, but other things do, and that's extremely important. To the guy saying that games are getting expensive and expensive, sorry, but that's market logic in the work. Really, if the prices go up and the demand for them is not that elastic, then they (CEO's) will see a bigger profit margin. The percentage of people that will decide not to buy the game will be less than the percentage of raised profits due to the 10$ change. They wouldn't stick to the 60$ if people didn't buy their games. So blame the 60$ on the 14-16 year old kids that buy COD. [QUOTE]Where is this mythical land you live where there's jobs that people can just fucking stroll into? [/QUOTE] its it comical. When people demand a market where they can get into a safe, durable job, they comply because they can't move towards a better position (horizontally) just like that. Now, Argentina during the 90's was the mythical land you mentioned. Really, labour regulations made it totally possible for you to say fuck off, find a new job in 3 weeks and start working in something else. But all the problems this brings for the employer (because fuck, yes, it does bring problems and so they adopted new practices) and the employee (who had to endure these new practices) created a sense of "friction" in the employee that eventually made it a burdening task to find or change jobs.
The US can do so much to rebuild its economy the proper way and fix the wealth gap. A few things are creating hundreds of thousands of jobs rebuilding our dilapidated bridges, and crumbing streets and water systems. Another thing is raising our minimum wage to a living wage. (Cough $15 an hour). Investments in our economy through solar, wind, and nuclear power would help a lot whilst helping the environment. Along with raising taxes on those who make more than 500,000 a year. And lastly fixing our trade policies that hurt the American worker. Alas, none of this is happening anytime soon. And there is much more to do. But that is just my take on it.
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;46314219]Argue technicalities all you want, it won't change the fact that the American people in general are worse off.[/QUOTE] You know I actually agree with him, the economy [B]IS[/B] better and in fact "public malaise" about the economy doesn't have anything to do at all with the economy being better. People may be less happy, but the economy is in fact better. The reason you two are disagreeing is because he's saying, "The numbers are better, numbers don't lie, the economy is better." While you are saying, "Fuck THEIR numbers, our numbers for quality of life is down, meaning I (and a lot of people) are unhappy, so I really don't care if the numbers say we're in a golden age right now." Stop arguing, both of you are correct, the OP supports both of your positions.
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