• U.S. unemployment is down. Consumer confidence is up. Inflation is low. Yet many Americans feel the
    135 replies, posted
[QUOTE=sgman91;46309596]That's just false. The vast majority of jobs pay over minimum wage. In fact, only 4.3 percent of jobs were paid at or below the minimum wage (including tipped jobs which often make much more). ([URL]http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2013.pdf[/URL]) It takes a minimum level of skill and experience to get more than minimum. If all you're doing is manual labor, then sure, it's going to be tough to make much more. You aren't doing anything that essentially every person on the planet can do with little training.[/QUOTE] The US minimum wage is a joke. I'm just out of high school, and my wage is $23/h. Sure, living expenses are higher in Denmark, but not three times higher than in the US (depends on the area of course). Some of my friends are getting paid ~$35/h for work with similar qualifications. You and JohnFisher89 honestly seem like people eating shit and enjoying it while screaming at other people that they could get to enjoy it as much as you if they just tried a little harder.
[QUOTE=codemaster85;46308995]its not just me, its every fucking worker in the labor industry. People are losing hours rapidly and pay just so stockholders and CEOs can watch their profit margins fucking explode. They are stomping the middle class out and completely nuking the lower class. Sooner or later that's going to bite them in the ass because their main consumer base is going to choke out and again fall down to a recession or depression.[/QUOTE] Sounds like someone is in need of a good old fashioned revolution! On a more serious note, I have a hard time seeing how many Americans can put up with such a counter productive form of government, combined with 1% of the population sitting on most of the wealth. You guys need unions and political reforms[I],[B] badly.[/B][/I]
[QUOTE=proch;46311854]What have you studied?[/QUOTE] I have an IT bachelors. Edit: Why is this funny? It's not my official degree title, not telling you that.
[t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJQ3CDbCYAEtf-v.jpg[/t]
*cough*Basic living-wage*cough*
We got that $10.10 minimum wage here in Connecticut. But we also have like the highest cost of living in the country, so.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;46311856]i don't even think hitler could look this evil while drinking out of a little pink teacup[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/2zf8nk7.jpg[/IMG] Fact.
[QUOTE=sgman91;46309644]No job has a set worth. The only way to have a non-arbitrary value on labor is through the market. Often times, physical work is the worst paid work because anyone can do it. It doesn't take a lot of knowledge, skill, or expertise. On the other hand, even simple people skills are very difficult to train if someone doesn't already have them. There's a reason even most technical jobs have a behavioral interview. Many employers would rather hire someone who is able to successfully work in a team, but has less knowledge, than a super smart guy who can't cooperate to save his life.[/QUOTE] while you're very right about labour being a menial job in the sense that just about anyone can do it, that's not the most important part in my view. If you treat your workers like shit, cut their hours so they're legally not working full time and thusly aren't eligible for any sort of benefits package, and pay them just enough to keep them on you're being a great capitalist but you're also depriving those people of work that can give them a reasonable standard of living in a country that really doesn't care about healthcare for the poor at all. And you're also going to alienate your work force rather than encouraging them to work harder and work better. I'm currently doing warehouse work for a company that treats it's workers excellently. The CEO of the company(It's a decently large company and supplies a great deal of places across the country) and the head of the local warehouse/company division regularly walk the floors and talk to everyone, they don't cut hours to make people inellgible for their benefits, they offer a lot of overtime work and because of this, encourages better, and harder workers as the people are more rewarded.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;46316223]while you're very right about labour being a menial job in the sense that just about anyone can do it, that's not the most important part in my view. If you treat your workers like shit, [B]cut their hours so they're legally not working full time and thusly aren't eligible for any sort of benefits package, and pay them just enough to keep them on[/B] you're being a great capitalist but you're also depriving those people of work that can give them a reasonable standard of living in a country that really doesn't care about healthcare for the poor at all. And you're also going to alienate your work force rather than encouraging them to work harder and work better. I'm currently doing warehouse work for a company that treats it's workers excellently. The CEO of the company(It's a decently large company and supplies a great deal of places across the country) and the head of the local warehouse/company division regularly walk the floors and talk to everyone, they don't cut hours to make people inellgible for their benefits, they offer a lot of overtime work and because of this, encourages better, and harder workers as the people are more rewarded.[/QUOTE] Exactly what my retail job does, in the bold. Actually, I got sent home early yesterday because, through my wiggling in for extra hours, they found out I almost was able to get OT. So next week I'm scheduled for 12 hours total of work. Yay...
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;46316521]Exactly what my retail job does, in the bold. Actually, I got sent home early yesterday because, through my wiggling in for extra hours, they found out I almost was able to get OT. So next week I'm scheduled for 12 hours total of work. Yay...[/QUOTE] by my company's contract i would automatically be a full time employee with a 1$ raise, health benefits, and vacation/sick days if i worked like 10 weeks at 40 hours a week. Every time it got near the 10th week mark, suddenly my hours would be down to like 12 hours for one week to prevent me from getting said benefits/raise/vacation/sick days.
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;46309682]But see that's my point. The market doesn't exist as you think it does. The market is this: - Jobs requiring a degree and/or years of experience - Jobs that pay at or barely above minimum wage It's an over generalization yes, but that's how it exists for most people. I can't just tell my employer "you're not paying me enough, I quit" and magically get another job that will pay me more. I don't have my degree or experience yet, so for all practical purposes I'm stuck at my current pay no matter where I go. [editline]23rd October 2014[/editline] I guess my point is employers don't offer "competitive pay" as it seems you believe they do because they've got a pretty down-pat system of "accept near-minimum wage or you don't have a job anywhere".[/QUOTE] If you don't have a degree or years of experience and don't want to work shitty retail or asking people if they want fries with that, then go to a trade school and take up something is in high demand. Live in a area on the water with a lot of boat owners? Go for marine trades and work on boat engines, boat repair. Construction is another nice area because the previous generation is retiring, and we'll need to new workers who are educated in the field to assemble the buildings civil engineers are designing. Go to school for these, search for someone willing to take a apprentice, or search for something that isn't shitty minimum wage retail. Even the military is a good choice because some of the work you do there can teach you skills for the future and give you those "years of experience."
I'm in college and getting a degree as we speak. Call me back in six years when I eventually get the classes I need.
I feel like i got lucky. I work in the business office of a trauma hospital making $21/hr and i dont have any college education or work experience.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;46316883]If you don't have a degree or years of experience and don't want to work shitty retail or asking people if they want fries with that, then go to a trade school and take up something is in high demand. Live in a area on the water with a lot of boat owners? Go for marine trades and work on boat engines, boat repair. Construction is another nice area because the previous generation is retiring, and we'll need to new workers who are educated in the field to assemble the buildings civil engineers are designing. Go to school for these, search for someone willing to take a apprentice, or search for something that isn't shitty minimum wage retail. Even the military is a good choice because some of the work you do there can teach you skills for the future and give you those "years of experience."[/QUOTE] "Go learn a trade or go flip burgers" You don't see the enormous issue that'll happen a few years down the line if everyone follows your advice?
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;46317682]He's saying "if you don't have a degree, and yet don't want to be flipping burgers for cash, then go get a trade certificate". Which makes sense. If you don't have a degree, and don't want to work a shitty retail job, or don't want to work a shitty entry level job, the best way to avoid that is to have a trade. Especially things like welding/mechanics, which are in extremely high demand right now. Obviously if you want to do something specialized (like engineering or medicine, etc etc), then of course you're going to go to college. But it's also valid advice to practice a trade while in college, as you'll certainly be more well off than someone who says "fuck it, ima work at mcdonalds".[/QUOTE] How about having a degree yet being unable to get a job because you don't have 5-10 years of experience? Do I flip burgers for life?
[QUOTE=Miskav;46317820]How about having a degree yet being unable to get a job because you don't have 5-10 years of experience? Do I flip burgers for life?[/QUOTE] No! You work as a manager at Abercrombie & Fitch you scrub, they literally hire anyone with a Bachelor's degree! It's where anyone who ever got a marketing degree ends up.
its always shit if you live in a shit place
I get paid $8.50 to be a porter at a Ford Dealership. 170 a week doesn't exactly help me when college is buttfucking me hard.
[QUOTE=Miskav;46317820]How about having a degree yet being unable to get a job because you don't have 5-10 years of experience? Do I flip burgers for life?[/QUOTE] What's your degree in? A degree doesn't mean jack shit without the experience to back it up, like how experience doesn't mean much without the degree. There is a reason that doctors spend 3-7 years doing "residencies". It's the same reason engineers need 4 years engineering experience before they can take the test and get their PE. I get to see the opposite perspective than most people. My office sees a lot of new "Civil Engineers" fresh out of college before they get their PE. To tell you the truth, I only have a high school diploma, some on-the-job training, and 2 full inspection certifications (Basecourse and Embankment, and Asphalt roadway), and these "Engineers" with 4 years of university education can't even do my job, much less their own. In fact, they usually stick them with us to train them in the field. A degree doesn't mean you will make a high salary immediately. It means you have a greater upwards mobility, and therefore the ability to move into higher paying positions over your lifetime than someone without a degree. I don't understand where people got the idea that college provided instant gratification and employment.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;46306180]The bare minimum for food and clothing isn't really that great. I suppose it's "better than nothing" but only very slightly.[/QUOTE] I feel bad for people who are truly poor enough that even cutting out excess costs and doing every little money saving lifehack still barely afford food though. It's so stressful worrying about if you will have to eat toast and butter for a week cuz you ran out of money.
[QUOTE=ThePanther;46306686]According to this: [url]https://www.aier.org/cost-living-calculator[/url] making $51,939.00 in 2013 is equal to making [B]$34,029.00 in 1995[/B], so yes, people should still feel like they aren't making enough money, considering that $51,939.00 was a comfortable amount of money to make in 1995.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.davemanuel.com/median-household-income.php[/url] Actual median household income in 1995 was $32,830. The figure is already adjusted for inflation.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;46316521]Exactly what my retail job does, in the bold. Actually, I got sent home early yesterday because, through my wiggling in for extra hours, they found out I almost was able to get OT. So next week I'm scheduled for 12 hours total of work. Yay...[/QUOTE] My job does the same. I consider myself a little more fortunate as I'm getting paid $11.20/part time to wash dishes, but the way things are with my job they guarantee full timers 40 hours a week so they give them all the hours and spread part timer hours thin through out the week. It sucks since they put the responsibilities on us to do all the work when they're working us to the bone while they let the full timers leave on time and just overall let them do whatever they want. But damned if we get near the 32 hour mark, because then they might have to give us benefits and recognize us as full timers. My company says I "earn" $23k a year but thats provided we get 40 hours a week. I work 31 hours over 6 days while everyone else is working ~25 hours a week regularly. People saying we should just get a job and live happily really need a reality check.
[QUOTE=PN_Redux;46319372]My job does the same. I consider myself a little more fortunate as I'm getting paid $11.20/part time to wash dishes, but the way things are with my job they guarantee full timers 40 hours a week so they give them all the hours and spread part timer hours thin through out the week. It sucks since they put the responsibilities on us to do all the work when they're working us to the bone while they let the full timers leave on time and just overall let them do whatever they want. But damned if we get near the 32 hour mark, because then they might have to give us benefits and recognize us as full timers. My company says I "earn" $23k a year but thats provided we get 40 hours a week. I work 31 hours over 6 days while everyone else is working ~25 hours a week regularly. People saying we should just get a job and live happily really need a reality check.[/QUOTE] It sucks. And now, I have to compete with untrained seasonal people (40-60 of them) for hours. They're going to screw up, not care about what they're doing, and take away time from year round workers for hours.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;46318870]...A degree doesn't mean you will make a high salary immediately. It means you have a greater upwards mobility, and therefore the ability to move into higher paying positions over your lifetime than someone without a degree. I don't understand where people got the idea that college provided instant gratification and employment.[/QUOTE] I don't know anyone who still thinks that they're going to be receiving high salary right out of college. Granted it did happen to someone I know, making over $70k right out of the gate. But that's exceedingly rare. The problem is a lack of upward mobility all over the place, so no way to move up and earn more money. Companies want 4-year expensive-ass degrees, years of experience, and still pay peanuts. Nobody's going to spend money if they don't have it...
[QUOTE=Metalcastr;46320361]I don't know anyone who still thinks that they're going to be receiving high salary right out of college. Granted it did happen to someone I know, making over $70k right out of the gate. But that's exceedingly rare. The problem is a lack of upward mobility all over the place, so no way to move up and earn more money. Companies want 4-year expensive-ass degrees, years of experience, and still pay peanuts. Nobody's going to spend money if they don't have it...[/QUOTE] I know quite a few high school graduates who are just starting college who think their degree will guarantee them a 50k+job right out of college
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;46318870]What's your degree in? A degree doesn't mean jack shit without the experience to back it up, like how experience doesn't mean much without the degree. There is a reason that doctors spend 3-7 years doing "residencies". It's the same reason engineers need 4 years engineering experience before they can take the test and get their PE. I get to see the opposite perspective than most people. My office sees a lot of new "Civil Engineers" fresh out of college before they get their PE. To tell you the truth, I only have a high school diploma, some on-the-job training, and 2 full inspection certifications (Basecourse and Embankment, and Asphalt roadway), and these "Engineers" with 4 years of university education can't even do my job, much less their own. In fact, they usually stick them with us to train them in the field. A degree doesn't mean you will make a high salary immediately. It means you have a greater upwards mobility, and therefore the ability to move into higher paying positions over your lifetime than someone without a degree. I don't understand where people got the idea that college provided instant gratification and employment.[/QUOTE] Business economics. I've been trying to get hired for almost a year, and no, I can't do internships. I'm doing multiple part-time jobs just so I don't lose my apartment, if I do an internship for "experience" I'll lose my apartment and end up on the streets. I love how everyone seems to say "Do internships to get experience" Yeah, that's fucking dandy if you live with your parents, but beyond that it's not possible.
Internships are usually unpaid and lead to poor networking options unless you're lucky
[QUOTE=catbarf;46319010][url]http://www.davemanuel.com/median-household-income.php[/url] Actual median household income in 1995 was $32,830. The figure is already adjusted for inflation.[/QUOTE] Nice catch, I update my original post.
If I had the money and wasn't so passionate about U.S. History, I'd move my whole family to Europe. Some European countries actually have a system where a college education won't destroy your life savings. But I'm sure its no rose garden there either.
[QUOTE=xxMarathonxx;46318838]I get paid $8.50 to be a porter at a Ford Dealership. 170 a week doesn't exactly help me when college is buttfucking me hard.[/QUOTE] I got paid a whole dollar less to work on people's cars at a Ford dealership part-time. The full-timers weren't getting much more (albeit with some benefits). Glad I got out of there when I did.
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