• Upside-down US flag T-shirt upsets Memorial Day shoppers
    141 replies, posted
[QUOTE=BFG9000;47802928]The flag is a symbol of the nation and the people in it, dick[/QUOTE] Why bless the surrogate? "God bless the people of our nation" would mean a lot more to the people of our nation if there is a god.
Reminds me of that movie: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/12/Last_castle_poster_reversed.jpg[/img]
Yes, let us forget that people died under that flag and just like burning, turning the flag over is seen as insult. Yes, lets forget, it was put on sale during [B]MEMORIAL DAY[/B] weekend, the weekend that is meant to commemorate those who gave their lives or are still alive today who served. I love how everyone's playing this, 'I don't care about America more' game with eachother in this thread and then being completely appalled that people actually care about the nation they were born in and grew up in like its some sort of weird, I dunno, socialization that occurs naturally? And before anyone says 'well *insert nation here* doesn't get upset', I bet if you look you'll find a controversy surrounding a flag being flipped upside down. This isn't even being patriotic. You're all acting sitting on high horses, monocole'd and noses so far up in the sky it looped around to your own asses. [quote=TheTalon]This country and its patriotism is over the top and misplaced. There's no reason to be proud to be American. Land of the incarcerated, and greedy where Money trumps everything. Change the stars to dollar signs on our flag then the pledge of allegiance would make much more sense[/quote] Case an point. [editline]25th May 2015[/editline] Remember that whole thing about ANZAC day? And how Australians got angry?
[QUOTE=xalener;47803024]Why bless the surrogate? "God bless the people of our nation" would mean a lot more to the people of our nation if there is a god.[/QUOTE] Man do you think that Catholic school put this much thought into it?
[QUOTE=Swilly;47803054]Yes, lets forget, it was put on sale during [B]MEMORIAL DAY[/B] weekend, the weekend that is meant to commemorate those who gave their lives or are still alive today who served. [/QUOTE] As someone earlier in the thread pointed out, this shirt has been on sale since last summer. [editline]25th May 2015[/editline] (Not that I'm disagreeing with you that there are a lot of idiots in this thread)
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;47802774]Actually the Union flag, when upside down, is different than it is normally (Presuming it's an actual flag rather than just the pattern, as you can turn the pattern upside down and then flip it, to get it back to the right pattern)[/QUOTE] well no, if it's turned upside down in the same way the US flag is on the shirt (rotating it 180 degrees), the flag is exactly the same yes you can fly it the incorrect way, but that's just gonna mean it's facing backwards, with the correct side flying the wrong way (left of the flagpole, rather than right of it), so it's not even really upside down, it's a mirror image if anything
[QUOTE=BFG9000;47802988]What's the issue with it? its part of our culture and a pretty harmless part.[/QUOTE] It seems like something a cult would do, or like some weird military thing
[QUOTE=Wii60;47802452]the flag has a ton of history built into it. we have also been basically worshiping the flag in schools too.[/QUOTE] Now that you are no longer required to pledge allegiance to your country this isn't really true anymore. [QUOTE=Eric95;47802977]The fact that kids are taught to say a pledge of allegiance to the country every day in the US is pretty fucking creepy tbh Even if you're allowed to sit through it, just the fact that you do it at all[/QUOTE] Why is it creepy to pledge your allegiance to your country?
[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;47803121]well no, if it's turned upside down in the same way the US flag is on the shirt (rotating it 180 degrees), the flag is exactly the same yes you can fly it the incorrect way, but that's just gonna mean it's facing backwards, with the correct side flying the wrong way (left of the flagpole, rather than right of it), so it's not even really upside down, it's a mirror image if anything[/QUOTE] flying the union jack the wrong way round is high treason i should know, i tried it and i'm now shitposting from the tower of london
[QUOTE=Eric95;47803128]It seems like something a cult would do, or like some weird military thing[/QUOTE] Well then wouldn't an anthem also be kind of weird? Yet every country to my knowledge has one.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;47802611][B]Our public schools really do have some North Korean level of nationalism going on.[/B] Every single morning, of every single day, of every single year, (About 2,300 times total) I had to stand up, put my hand on my heart, face the flag, and recite the pledge of allegiance.[/QUOTE] are you for real? saying the pledge every morning is nothing like North Korea. that is one thing you do to show "loyalty" to the united states, literally one thing, and it's optional. you have the option to sit through it as schools cannot force you to say the pledge. as for the whole thing, I can see why people are mad, it's memorial day. people have passed defending the flag, and they believe it's a bit disrespectful to hang the flag upside down. it's not a major problem, but at least on memorial day they shouldn't display the flag as such, I don't care for the shirt either way.
While I think we should respect the flag, these people don't understand it's not just a symbol to mean "fuck america lolololol" and actually has legit idea behind it. and thats fucking annoying how they jump straight to conclusions
[QUOTE=Swilly;47803054] I love how everyone's playing this, 'I don't care about America more' game with eachother in this thread and then being completely appalled that people actually care about the nation they were born in and grew up in like its some sort of weird, I dunno, socialization that occurs naturally?[/QUOTE] Oh, fuck off. Don't you fucking dare. My problem with this is that there are [I]real[/I] fucking problems happening that are infinitely more important than a FUCKING SHIRT. When a flag is desecrated, cloth is torn and soiled, but bodies remain unharmed. I will NEVER cry over a flag. I will never fucking lose sleep over a flag. My problem is that people are substituting their love for the ACTUAL nation with a love for the flag. My problem is that a bunch of people who are angry over this shirt have probably never lifted to a fucking finger to help their fellow man of the country. My problem is that our pledge of allegiance is "to the flag" and the "and to the republic for which it stands" bit is tagged on like some little addendum when it's the actual fucking important part. I pledge allegiance to the republic of the United States. One nation. Indivisible. Liberty and justice for all. That's all that fucking matters to me. A symbol of our country is just that. It's not the country. It's not a thing to be worshiped. It's not a thing that need protecting. America is a huge piece of land that billions of lifeforms can call home, including myself. I love these lifeforms. I don't love countries, but I do love people. I love and respect all the citizens of the country I was born and raised in. I even love you.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;47802663]People getting upset about a freaking flag being turned upside down is almost like Muslims getting upset about drawings of Mohammed.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, what? you're comparing sacred religious writings to patriotism? good gracious me, that's quite disrespectful
[QUOTE=Pelican;47803257]I'm sorry, what? you're comparing sacred religious writings to patriotism? good gracious me, that's quite disrespectful[/QUOTE] It's both things that people believe in greatly often due to upbringing. Honestly there are definitely some parallels between patriotism and religion.
just some? [QUOTE=Pelican;47803257]I'm sorry, what? you're comparing sacred religious writings to patriotism? good gracious me, that's quite disrespectful[/QUOTE] To whom? To which one? I always thought they were equally important.
[QUOTE=MR-X;47802555]Upside down usually means there is an extreme danger or distress. People also fly it upside down to protest.. So it isn't hard to see why people would get upset. Today is memorial day.. The flag is a symbol, its why every country rallies behind one. Our uniforms have flags that are charging...some people get upset because they lost a love one to war and the only thing they have left from that moment is a flag in a shadow box.. Shouldn't really have to explain why symbols are important, some people are just trying to be edgy or ignorant. Every time a thread like this pops up we get the same comments.[/QUOTE] Yes it's a symbol, but that doesn't make it untouchable. If someone hates what the symbol stands for it's their right to wear it upside down to convey that. If you respect what the symbol stands for you can be upset that other people don't hold it in the same regard, but they don't [I]have[/I] to respect it since it's only a matter of opinion.
The little american flag icon under the names of American members on this website has 6 red stripes and 28 stars, it's all wrong ban this awful site from american servers plz [editline]25th May 2015[/editline] The obvious solution is to wear these shirts upside down.
I always thought that having the pledge every day was just another method of teaching respect for the nation? I don't see why it's so bad to do so, as it's not required by law to pledge- just highly encouraged. It's not like after you leave high school they keep doing having you do it every day at work/college, which re enforces my previous statement that it's just for teaching respect. Like most graphic t-shirts these days, there was probably little thought put into the design. It's a dumb shirt and a bit disrespectful, but I don't think it's anti-American like so many of the people making a fuss about it would have one believe. They don't have to stop shopping there, just don't buy the shirt and they will stop selling it due to lack of sales.
[QUOTE=Pelican;47803257]I'm sorry, what? you're comparing sacred religious writings to patriotism? good gracious me, that's quite disrespectful[/QUOTE] What is the difference between the two besides the fact that religion involves supernatural stuff? Patriotism has symbols, stories, heroes, rituals and values just like religion does.
[QUOTE=Kljunas;47803419]What is the difference between the two besides the fact that religion involves supernatural stuff? Patriotism has symbols, stories, heroes, rituals and values just like religion does.[/QUOTE] Patriotism has propaganda. Basically the same thing as supernatural.
A lot of religious folks may argue that the supernatural isn't supernatural. Also they both harbor their own bits of aggressive propaganda. I'd go as far as to say there's not one without the other.
I'm not really comfortable with a piece of fabric being used as a symbol of loyalty and respect. I'd rather just actually be loyal and respectful.
[QUOTE=NuggetWarmer;47803390]I always thought that having the pledge every day was just another method of teaching respect for the nation? I don't see why it's so bad to do so, as it's not required by law to pledge- just highly encouraged. It's not like after you leave high school they keep doing having you do it every day at work/college, which re enforces my previous statement that it's just for teaching respect.[/QUOTE] Respect should be earned, not taught. When kids learn about the US and its history they can form their own opinion from that. And if it was just about being thankful it wouldn't be that bad. But it's about pledging allegiance to the country and to God which is all kinds of fucked up imo. Also making it every day is excessive and is basically indoctrination.
If it really is indoctrination it's doing a pretty shitty job at it.
[QUOTE=Al Bundy;47802534]We're literally taught from the day we walk in to school to stand up, salute, and pledge allegiance to a flag every single school day from our first to our last. Its pretty fucked up. I have seen students get reprimanded for refusing to do it. We're basically taught to worship the damn thing.[/QUOTE] Most schools have a policy of telling kids they don't have to do it since the supreme court said it's not constitutionally legal to make kids do it.
[QUOTE=Blazedol;47803509]I'm not really comfortable with a piece of fabric being used as a symbol of loyalty and respect. I'd rather just actually be loyal and respectful.[/QUOTE] Its the same thing, by respecting the flag you are respecting the country. That's what a flag is, a symbol that represents X.
I dunno if this was said earlier, but it's an A$AP Mob shirt (a rap group with A$AP Rocky and Ferg, etc). Don't see anything offensive about it personally, if anything, soldiers fought for this kind of freedom of expression.
[QUOTE=xalener;47803236]Oh, fuck off. Don't you fucking dare. My problem with this is that there are [I]real[/I] fucking problems happening that are infinitely more important than a FUCKING SHIRT. When a flag is desecrated, cloth is torn and soiled, but bodies remain unharmed. I will NEVER cry over a flag. I will never fucking lose sleep over a flag. My problem is that people are substituting their love for the ACTUAL nation with a love for the flag. My problem is that a bunch of people who are angry over this shirt have probably never lifted to a fucking finger to help their fellow man of the country. My problem is that our pledge of allegiance is "to the flag" and the "and to the republic for which it stands" bit is tagged on like some little addendum when it's the actual fucking important part. I pledge allegiance to the republic of the United States. One nation. Indivisible. Liberty and justice for all. That's all that fucking matters to me. A symbol of our country is just that. It's not the country. It's not a thing to be worshiped. It's not a thing that need protecting. America is a huge piece of land that billions of lifeforms can call home, including myself. I love these lifeforms. I don't love countries, but I do love people. I love and respect all the citizens of the country I was born and raised in. I even love you.[/QUOTE] You're entire post is based upon assumptions and rhetoric when almost every nation is based upon not only [I]cultural[/I] symbols but also upon a common history. I'm not saying there aren't issues, but to act like you're the only one in the fucking right because you 'care more for this nation' while actually getting angry at other people getting angry at one of the main representations of our nation is not only hypocritical but your entire argument becomes hollow. [editline]25th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;47803612]Most schools have a policy of telling kids they don't have to do it since the supreme court said it's not constitutionally legal to make kids do it.[/QUOTE] Its been unconstitutional since 19-fucking-42.
Maybe there's like a reason beyond just commercialized rebellion that someone would want to consecrate a flag of a state?
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