Upside-down US flag T-shirt upsets Memorial Day shoppers
141 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Sally;47803816]Its the same thing, by respecting the flag you are respecting the country. That's what a flag is, a symbol that represents X.[/QUOTE]
but why would I want a symbol when I have the real deal?
Patriotism in any country of the world is just silly. But the Americans take it to the next level.
[QUOTE=Ignhelper;47804212]Patriotism in any country of the world is just silly. But the Americans take it to the next level.[/QUOTE]
By seeing the flag as a symbol?
The rampant hatred of the flag as a symbol confuses me. Who gives a shit. It's obvious in its meaning (the flag is supposed to be a symbol of the United States and people thus see disrespect to it as disrespect to the nation).
You act as if no other country in the world is patriotic. Sure it doesn't manifest as respect for the flag everywhere, but that doesn't somehow make America super duper patriotic.
[QUOTE=thisispain;47804166]Maybe there's like a reason beyond just commercialized rebellion that someone would want to consecrate a flag of a state?[/QUOTE]
Which is fine. Going out of your way to mock and abuse a symbol of something you don't agree with is fine.
This isn't that though.
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;47802683]Actually.[/QUOTE]
Did you read the second half of your quote? :v:
[QUOTE=Al Bundy;47802534]We're literally taught from the day we walk in to school to stand up, salute, and pledge allegiance to a flag every single school day from our first to our last. Its pretty fucked up. I have seen students get reprimanded for refusing to do it. We're basically taught to worship the damn thing.[/QUOTE]
I tried refusing, they took me out of class, ended up becoming an issue with the fucking principal involved, and they basically ended up saying that I either stood up and pledged to the flag or walked out of class every day until it was finished.
This reminds me of ye olde days in Portugal when Salazar ruled.
Well not really remind, cuz I wasn't there, but the people who were remind me that they prayed every single day in class, and I think also sung the anthem.
Other than whatever people have to say, how its over nationalistic and such, just like the pledge, imo is more of a boring hassle and a waste of time.
But that's just me. Rituals and the like in general seem like a waste of time, excluding something like Memorial day.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;47805997]The flag means a lot to many airmen, soldiers, sailors, and marines because it represents our freedom and the great cost that has been paid to attain and retain it. A cost most people can't associate with unless they are military or closely associated with it.
Troops fought for the rights that allow this t-shirt, but that grants them the same exact rights that allow them to be offended. It's just like every single time someone mixes up a Marine and a Soldier - all hell breaks loose. There is meaning behind both terms, and they deserve to be recognized and respected. The flag is no different.
Others may disagree and they're free to do that but at the same time it's unfair to shit on people who don't like the shirt. Doesn't really matter if someone thinks it's offensive and someone else doesn't - perception is reality.[/QUOTE]
Perception is reality. Sometimes.
That's why a flag is a coloured piece of cloth until people give it a meaning. It has no intrinsic meaning. Anyone who tries to tell you that it has is basically making a tin god out of it which is all kinds of wrong.
What's wrong with the people in the OP is that they're idolizing the flag symbol without even trying to understand what might be behind it(for instance that it's been sold for a year), basically throwing any kind of well mannered thinking, arguing and opinion(or as you say it: perception) building away.
Makes me wonder, what if I travel to that mall next year, and set fire to a US flag to use it as a campfire?
It will only be provoking at this point, but it makes me genuinely curious.
[QUOTE=Mkt778;47806749]Militaires Sans Frontières, Soldiers Without Borders. It stood for something. Big Boss created this haven for soldiers wanting to free themselves from the whims of other nations. You trained kick ass soldiers and went on kick ass missions. It was [I]your[/I] unit. They were [I]your[/I] men. How proud did you feel when Mother Base grew? How proud did you feel when you began ammassing your military under a joint sense of purpose?[/QUOTE]
You know this is just as bad as bronies using MLP to relate to the Jewish holocaust victims, right?
I love how everyone is complaining about people getting pissy about a flag and then start getting pissy about said flag because they have to do a ~10 second pledge that most people either half-ass or don't do anyway.
Even complaining about your local traffic is more productive than complaining about the pledge.
Who fucking cares? I might go buy a shirt like that just because now. It's a stupid fucking flag, who cares that much, really.
[editline]26th May 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=cdr248;47809833]I love how everyone is complaining about people getting pissy about a flag and then start getting pissy about said flag because they have to do a ~10 second pledge that most people either half-ass or don't do anyway.
Even complaining about your local traffic is more productive than complaining about the pledge.[/QUOTE]
Indoctrinating children with blind nationalism through "harmless propaganda" is wrong.
Honestly the only thing I dislike about patriotism is when people talk about their country as the pinnacle of "insert value here".
Like how many patriots in France and the US tend to push their country as the absolute top of freedom and liberty like we own the rights to it or something. It's childish and obnoxious, on the same level as "my dad will beat up your dad" but with nation values.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;47809878]Honestly the only thing I dislike about patriotism is when people talk about their country as the pinnacle of "insert value here".
Like how many patriots in France and the US tend to push their country as the absolute top of freedom and liberty like we own the rights to it or something. It's childish and obnoxious, on the same level as "my dad will beat up your dad" but with nation values.[/QUOTE]
Like those damn Kazakhstanis lording their potassium exports over us.
If people are arguing that the flag is a symbol that many people have died for, isn't it equally as important to recognise that these people also died for the freedom of expression? If somebody wants to burn the flag or otherwise, let them. The action of desecrating a flag has no inherent power unless you give them that power.
It is absolutely ridiculous that national pride has become so entwined with worshiping a commercialized idol where we're at a point that simply displaying a piece of cloth the wrong way around generates so much hate.
[QUOTE=draugur;47809849]Who fucking cares? I might go buy a shirt like that just because now. It's a stupid fucking flag, who cares that much, really.
[editline]26th May 2015[/editline]
Indoctrinating children with blind nationalism through "harmless propaganda" is wrong.[/QUOTE]
In the world of information that we live in now I doubt future generations will be 'indoctrinated' by the pledge, it's like you're saying that people can't change their mind or be convinced otherwise.
If you really think it's such a big deal then sit your kid down and tell them that they don't have to say the pledge.
I honestly don't think it's that big of a deal and to me it really is just 'harmless propaganda'. As kids, no one really payed attention or knew what the pledge was saying or what it meant, and it certainly didn't make us feel anymore patriotic. The pledge is so insignificant that movies, tv, and video games are far more likely to shape a child's view of the US than a few lines and a flag ever would.
[QUOTE=proch;47802854]If you think about it it's surprisingly similar.[/QUOTE]
No, one considered a form of idolatry by its adherents and one represents something. The pledge says "justice and liberty for all"
Whats the problem with that?
It is actually saying I will do what is best to ensure everyone has justice and liberty.
I actually have studied how cults are formed. Trust me, this is not.
[QUOTE=Noss;47810003]If people are arguing that the flag is a symbol that many people have died for, isn't it equally as important to recognise that these people also died for the freedom of expression? If somebody wants to burn the flag or otherwise, let them. The action of desecrating a flag has no inherent power unless you give them that power.
It is absolutely ridiculous that national pride has become so entwined with worshiping a commercialized idol where we're at a point that simply displaying a piece of cloth the wrong way around generates so much hate.[/QUOTE]
Technically speaking, you're right. But if someone died for your freedom of expression and you turned around and said "Fuck that guy", it'd be pretty crummy. People losing their minds are going a bit too far, but it's a pretty dumb shirt to show on that specific holiday.
[QUOTE=cdr248;47810011]In the world of information that we live in now I doubt future generations will be 'indoctrinated' by the pledge, it's like you're saying that people can't change their mind or be convinced otherwise.
If you really think it's such a big deal then sit your kid down and tell them that they don't have to say the pledge.
I honestly don't think it's that big of a deal and to me it really is just 'harmless propaganda'. As kids, no one really payed attention or knew what the pledge was saying or what it meant, and it certainly didn't make us feel anymore patriotic. The pledge is so insignificant that movies, tv, and video games are far more likely to shape a child's view of the US than a few lines and a flag ever would.[/QUOTE]
[quote]I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.[/quote]
Imagine for a second that America did not have the pledge of allegiance, and a country such as North Korea did. Everyone would go "huh, that's sort of fucked up", but because the pledge of allegiance is an American tradition, somehow it can't be criticised. The "one Nation under God" part is fucked up enough, let alone encouraging kids to blindly support a country whilst having little to no knowledge of the implications of the pledge, or how the country is run.
There isn't such thing as 'harmless propaganda'. Forcing kids to read this mantra (yes, technically not legal, but often still practiced) is unbelievably fucked up and is nothing less than brainwashing.
Reminds me of a joke David Mitchell told years back involving anti-American protesters burning flags.
'Oh look they're burning the U.S. flag. No! You're burning your flag. You paid money for it and you're setting it on fire'.
Americans can say that their flag is symbolic and means a lot to them, and I get that and respect it. The rest of the world couldn't really care about their own flags in such strong terms though, and we also view America as a sort of cult concept.
In God We Trust and all that. I can only assume that it's because it's such a new country in comparison. Pretty sure we're were all like that once.
Isn't the whole point of the shirt to offend people though?
Boo. Fucking. Hoo.
Isn't an upside down flag an official sign of distress, anyways? It's not meant to be disrespectful.
I pretty much share the same views as this guy.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/92TwTSm.png[/img]
So if I ever get to the USA and wear a shirt with the flag the right side up, I am not allowed to walk on my hands?
You don't have to hold a symbol of a nation in high regard but you should still respect what it is. You should show respect to the flag of any nation when in that nation. Failing to do so reflects high on your character in my opinion.
A$AP, recognize that right quick, A-fucking-$AP
I didn't even know that this shirt was even disrespectful, I used to wear one of these A$AP shirts a couple years ago and didn't think anything of it. This is really dumb.
It's right side up to the person wearing it, though. Just look down at your chest.
I friend of mine that works at Pacsun says that people are constantly berating him and other employees about this issue. Even though they removed the shirts already. People are fucking blindly retarded. I wish people got this excited and riled up over issues that really matter. It's a fucking disgrace.
This is where the english and british flags shine as nobody bats an eyelid when they're upside down, because they still look pretty much the same
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.