• Windows 8.1 to bring start menu back
    198 replies, posted
nothin stimulates fps intellectual mind more than the minutia of OS start up screens
[QUOTE=Durrsly;40307674]I wouldn't really mind that. It doesn't take up my whole screen, at least when I used Windows 3 a virtual machine at 640 x 480.[/QUOTE] why do you not want it to be fullscreen so bad, to the point where you would rather use 20 year old software? like, i can see not liking that charm stuff, that shut down is hidden away, and that the start button is missing, perhaps that icons are big on the start screen but what the hell is SO TERRIBLE about it being fullscreen?
[QUOTE=Ezhik;40310539]why do you not want it to be fullscreen so bad, to the point where you would rather use 20 year old software? like, i can see not liking that charm stuff, that shut down is hidden away, and that the start button is missing, perhaps that icons are big on the start screen but what the hell is SO TERRIBLE about it being fullscreen?[/QUOTE] I'm a god damned developer and there isn't any reason not to have an alternative other than forcing me into using metro...
[QUOTE=cani;40310592]I'm a god damned developer and there isn't any reason not to have an alternative other than forcing me into using metro...[/QUOTE] but you could say that about any windows version boo hoo they changed something that i personally wish there's an alternative to i mean seriously metro is arguably better on a few fronts but people just need a target to fling their shit at apparently
[QUOTE=cani;40310592]I'm a god damned developer and there isn't any reason not to have an alternative other than forcing me into using metro...[/QUOTE] if you're a god damned developer then you're probably familiar with how quickly things change
[QUOTE=cani;40310592]I'm a god damned developer and there isn't any reason not to have an alternative other than forcing me into using metro...[/QUOTE] i'm a god damned developer, and the reason for that is that microsoft doesn't want to support even more legacy features for 20 years
My fault is believing we can't both have it our way. Like if they added such "legacy features" it would for sure break the new features..........dot dot dot dot..... [QUOTE=Ezhik;40310726]it costs money to support them, and it makes the code a mess windows is filled with compatibility hacks, the windows folder on my windows rt tablet (which doesn't include all that compatibility crap) is twice as small as the windows folder on my normal pc. do you really think that it's a good idea to keep adding more hacks to this mess?[/QUOTE] I would think it cost more money to make a desktop mode in the first place (like they did). Why give us half of the support and not take a little more time giving us full support. This logic is fucking stupid. Just take the code you made and skip Metro, it isn't costly... I can download a patch to give me desktop mode from startup but you're telling me a multi-million dollar company shouldn't spend time on something people begged for. Keep in mind we are in a thread based on them giving us these exact features (even if it was exaggerated by op). [QUOTE=Juniez;40310772]even more than its current state, I mean[/QUOTE] The fact is they already support it! You just have to click a button to get to desktop mode. They purposely made it difficult in hopes that more people would spend more time in Metro. Because Metro is their product to compete with other markets (Android?¿). The fact they didn't take ten seconds to make it easier for people who prefer desktop mode is fucking moronic. [QUOTE=Juniez;40310772]it's just a click dude, not /that/ difficult. unless you're talking about the start menu, which is legit legacy and isn't coming back[/QUOTE] Exactly my point, it is just a click, yet they force it on people. That doesn't cost money!! [QUOTE=Juniez;40310772]well congrats. they got rid of it now in an OS upgrade that's free if you've supported win8[/QUOTE] Exactly why so many people bitched in the two preview versions of Windows 8 and they said no? You act like I should be grateful they gave us something for free most of us begged for before they released it... I do have respect for you for not flooding the thread with new replies. :) [QUOTE=Juniez;40310772]yeah, but then I could just as easily turn around and say 'why were so many people bitching about something that took one click / a small third-party patch to fix?' you act like the bootup thing is Microsoft's be-all-end-all plan to force tablet integration (which if it was, wow what a weak plan)[/QUOTE] It wasn't an "be-all-end-all" for tablet integration, it was just an overall idea that if they force the average user to use Metro they would put money into it. My point is they have a lot of hardcore desktop users, which they knew they had by keeping desktop mode and still tried to screw them by making them use Metro. I have no problem with them pushing the Metro route, just don't tell me it is because it costs money to support desktop mode when clearly they already spent the money to support it.
[QUOTE=cani;40310686]My fault is believing we can't both have it our way. Like if they added such "legacy features" it would for sure break the new features..........dot dot dot dot.....[/QUOTE] somewhere in the (near) future i'm sure it would or they could just keep supporting legacy things until everything gets bloated and bogged down. that would probably be worse though
[QUOTE=cani;40310686]My fault is believing we can't both have it our way. Like if they added such "legacy features" it would for sure break the new features..........dot dot dot dot.....[/QUOTE] it costs money to support them, and it makes the os bloated windows is filled with compatibility hacks, the windows folder on my windows rt tablet (which doesn't include all that compatibility crap) is twice as small as the windows folder on my normal pc. do you really think that it's a good idea to keep adding more hacks to this mess? [editline]17th April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Juniez;40310694]somewhere in the (near) future i'm sure it would [B]or they could just keep supporting legacy things until everything gets bloated and bogged down[/B]. that would probably be worse though[/QUOTE] that already happened
even more than its current state, I mean [QUOTE=cani;40310686] I would think it cost more money to make a desktop mode in the first place (like they did). Why give us half of the support and not take a little more time giving us full support. This logic is fucking stupid. Just take the code you made and skip Metro, it isn't costly... I can download a patch to give me desktop mode from startup but you're telling me a multi-million dollar company shouldn't spend time on something people begged for. Keep in mind we are in a thread based on them giving us these exact features (even if it was exaggerated by op).[/QUOTE] no exaggerated - falsified. The start menu isn't coming back in any way or form because it's legacy now [QUOTE=cani;40310686]The fact is they already support it! You just have to click a button to get to desktop mode. They purposely made it difficult in hopes that more people would spend more time in Metro. Because Metro is their product to compete with other markets (Android?¿). The fact they didn't take ten seconds to make it easier for people who prefer it is fucking moronic.[/QUOTE] it's just a click dude, not /that/ difficult. unless you're talking about the start menu, which is legitimately gone. like it's not ever coming back it's not even a part of windows anymore [QUOTE=cani;40310686]Exactly my point, it is just a click, yet they force it on people. That doesn't cost money!![/QUOTE] well congrats. they got rid of it now in an OS upgrade that's free if you've supported win8 [QUOTE=cani;40310686]Exactly why so many people bitched in the two preview versions of Windows 8 and they said no? You act like I should be grateful they gave us something for free most of us begged for before they released it... I do have respect for you for not flooding the thread with new replies. :)[/QUOTE] yeah, but then I could just as easily turn around and say 'why were so many people bitching about something that took one click / a small third-party patch to fix?' you act like the bootup thing is Microsoft's be-all-end-all plan to force tablet integration (which if it was, wow what a weak plan) [QUOTE=cani;40310686]It wasn't an "be-all-end-all" for tablet integration, it was just an overall idea that if they force the average user to use Metro they would put money into it. My point is they have a lot of hardcore desktop users, which they knew they had by keeping desktop mode and still tried to screw them by making them use Metro. I have no problem with them pushing the Metro route, just don't tell me it is because it costs money to support desktop mode when clearly they already spent the money to support it.[/QUOTE] oh well no, your desktop mode isn't in jeopardy, it's going to be around for a loooooooooooong whille - metro was never meant to be a PC desktop replacement, it's a start menu replacement (a very viable one at that)
[QUOTE=wari65;40309633]Most people I've seen in SH defending Windows 8 have said either "you can ignore the start screen" or "You can just put the things you use most on it." The problem I have with this is that the first defense implies that the person using Windows 8 doesn't want it there in the first place, meaning it has no reason to be there. The second statement I find silly since the start menu before served that EXACT SAME PURPOSE. I'm not saying it's a bad change, I'm just saying it's a bit silly that it was changed at all, though I guess Microsofts statistics of start screen usage being up over start menu usage says it was a good change. However, metro apps appear pretty fucking useless. Why can any normal desktop program not serve the same exact purpose and better? I burst out laughing when people were praising Windows Blue for allowing "multitasking with 3 metro apps at once", since the desktop can handle as many as you can fit on your screen. Someone please explain the appeal of metro apps to me if there is one at all, I truly don't get it. The changes to the start menu itself I wouldn't have a problem with, but the metro apps system and "charms" I've heard so much about here just seem like the dumbest things about the OS. Windows 8 would probably be fine if I didn't have Windows 7, but I do, so... [sp]I've never used Windows 8, this is speculation on my part[/sp][/QUOTE] I wouldn't say use W8 without the start screen. It's the best thing about it. You could try and avoid it I guess... not sure why you would though. The start screen is provably more functional than the start menu, the guys on the Microsoft developer blog thing wrote an article about it. Basically having bigger buttons further away is fast to access than having the much smaller buttons closer to the start button. You can also put more stuff onto the start screen if you want to. Yes, it misses off a few things, such as a "Shutdown" function, but as I've demonstrated for I think the third time now on this forum it's a non-issue, you can add your own. Yep, metro applications are completely fucking pointless and you almost never need to the use them. There is almost no functionality loss if you don't use them. They have however inexplicably made the user account settings page a metro app, so you occasionally might have to use that. Charms bars... they're a non-issue. The one on the right you'll ever need to use, the one on the bottom which is basically right click in the start screen and metro apps only is fine. Having said all that, if you have W7 there's no real reason to upgrade. I just like W8 so when I overhauled my PC I put W8 on it to fall in line with my laptop.
Upgrading to Windows 8 showed me how rarely I actually used the start menu The OS is great and handles extremely well (with a touchscreen). I'm finding the touch features to be much less gimmicky than I expected.
I was a strong opponent of Metro but after using it for 4 months now I'm in love with it. For all of you that oppose it, [b]try it[/b] for some time and [b]then[/b] give us your opinions.
Looks what happens when sales are not made, they listen.
[QUOTE=Badballer;40313801]Looks what happens when sales are not made, they listen.[/QUOTE] The button being invisible isn't the reason 8 didn't sell well.
If this happens I might actually be interested in Win8.1
[QUOTE=TestECull;40315047]If this happens I might actually be interested in Win8.1[/QUOTE] They're just adding the button, there's no functionality change to people who already know it's there.
I didn't like metro at first. It was a change, I don't like changes. But guess what [B]I tried win8.[/B] I don't see the deal with what is so incredibly wrong with the metro screen. I just found it to be another, prettier start screen which I could customize. The feeling of bandwagoning is strong. People coming with small details as ''you cant do thag anymore in 2 clicks, you have to click 3 times now!!!'' are just coming up with reasons to hate win8.
[QUOTE=PredGD;40318493]I didn't like metro at first. It was a change, I don't like changes. But guess what [B]I tried win8.[/B] I don't see the deal with what is so incredibly wrong with the metro screen. I just found it to be another, prettier start screen which I could customize. The feeling of bandwagoning is strong. People coming with small details as ''you cant do thag anymore in 2 clicks, you have to click 3 times now!!!'' are just coming up with reasons to hate win8.[/QUOTE] I tried Win8 too. Metro is fucking terrible with a mouse and keyboard. It'd work great with a touchscreen, but on a computer? Metro can fuck right off.
Why hasnt Max changed the title yet?
[QUOTE=TestECull;40319036]I tried Win8 too. Metro is fucking terrible with a mouse and keyboard. It'd work great with a touchscreen, but on a computer? Metro can fuck right off.[/QUOTE] How? I've had no problems with it. In fact, I like it more than the original start menu, which I never actually used.
[QUOTE=redBadger;40319257]How? I've had no problems with it. In fact, I like it more than the original start menu, which I never actually used.[/QUOTE] It just feels clunky and hard to navigate. It's hard to put into words beyond "I don't feel it works very well".
Heh, that's how I felt about the old start menu.
[QUOTE=TestECull;40321647]It just feels clunky and hard to navigate. It's hard to put into words beyond "I don't feel it works very well".[/QUOTE] I'm glad they implemented search in Vista+. Because using the Programs menu is exactly in your words, "clunky and hard to navigate". Its definitely a relic of 90's user design.
[QUOTE=The Baconator;40319119]Why hasnt Max changed the title yet?[/QUOTE] Can he even be banned for misleading titles?
[QUOTE=Matriax;40313141] You can also put more stuff onto the start screen if you want to. Yes, it misses off a few things, such as a "Shutdown" function, but as I've demonstrated for I think the third time now on this forum it's a non-issue, you can add your own. .[/QUOTE] When I want to shutdown, I always push the physical shutdown button with my toe. Since I have an old pc case, the start button is big and in front of the case
[QUOTE=The Baconator;40319119]Why hasnt Max been demodded yet?[/QUOTE] Fix'd
[QUOTE=PredGD;40318493]I didn't like metro at first. It was a change, I don't like changes. But guess what [B]I tried win8.[/B] I don't see the deal with what is so incredibly wrong with the metro screen. I just found it to be another, prettier start screen which I could customize. The feeling of bandwagoning is strong. People coming with small details as ''you cant do thag anymore in 2 clicks, you have to click 3 times now!!!'' are just coming up with reasons to hate win8.[/QUOTE] The only reason that's being mentioned is because that's really the only thing wrong with 8. To me, it's exactly the same as 7, with the exception of the start menu. My only complaint with the OS is that it takes a few more steps to get to something, everything else is great. I said earlier that I would've liked to see the charm bar as a sort of start bar, and the only reason for that is that I hate having to mouse over to the top or bottom right corner, then up to bring up a menu, when I could just click a button instead. That's the only real tablet-y aspect of 8 I dislike. Other than that, the OS is great, and I'm perfectly fine with having upgraded for $15.
[QUOTE=PredGD;40318493]I didn't like metro at first. It was a change, I don't like changes. But guess what [B]I tried win8.[/B] I don't see the deal with what is so incredibly wrong with the metro screen. I just found it to be another, prettier start screen which I could customize. The feeling of bandwagoning is strong. People coming with small details as ''you cant do thag anymore in 2 clicks, you have to click 3 times now!!!'' are just coming up with reasons to hate win8.[/QUOTE] I agree with you. I really don't get the "it takes more clicks" aspect I click in the bottom left of my screen and I get access to all this without a single extra scroll, click or keypress. [t]http://puu.sh/2CIL2/bb70acb77a.png[/t] Sure looks like more than what I had access to in one click from the Start Menu, even with "pinned" programs.
[QUOTE=Matriax;40309227]Sorry, [B]how is it difficult to reach?[/B] It's right there, on the start screen. It's two clicks. It is demonstrably not difficult to reach. An average user knows how to type the words "add shutdown to windows 8 start" into Google and click on the first link, and follow exceedingly simple on screen instructions.[/QUOTE] No it's not. It's not on there to start with, and it's not accessible without doing things that most average users won't be comfortable doing. [editline]19th April 2013[/editline] If they're adding the button that's a good move though, it's a bit backward to move from this symbol that's been ingrained in the public consciousness for so long and replace it with something that's functionally identical but invisible. [editline]19th April 2013[/editline] Anyway, the reason Win8 isn't selling very well is because it, to the general public, feels like a simple incremental upgrade, like the WiiU. And like the WiiU, no one wants to spend a not inconsiderable amount of money on an incremental upgrade when their current Win7 system or wii works just fine. ;If they wanted to keep OS-only sales high they should've kept the price down, an incremental upgrade is much more palatable when it's cheap.
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