• A truck ploughs through Christmas market in Berlin
    267 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51553670]again: how is this not rhetoric you could use against neo-nazis and white supremacist groups in general? why are you so vocal about intolerance and yet rarely condemn those groups? why aren't you making 5 threads a week about what random nazis did somewhere, like you do with muslims?[/QUOTE] Because those groups are not as great as the other and does not create as great of an impact on the society. This is also an imported problem, the others are native problems - huge difference. Random nazi attacks while they are despicable does not even come close to the magnitude of attacks like rapes, murders, robberies etc committed by the massive amount of "bad apples" of the other group.
There's one massive difference between Islam and Christianity: their respective connections to government. Christianity spawned in a time when it's followers had zero power for hundreds of years, for generations and generations of believers. The Bible also gives explicit instructions on living peaceably within a society that doesn't agree with you. Every single founder of Christianity including Jesus and the apostles had zero political power in the governmental system. Jesus, in the Bible, even goes so far as to make some of the first statements on the separation of church and state in history ("Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's" and specifically saying that his kingdom is not of this world, and therefore his followers won't try to rebel against the worldly authorities in the name of their religion.) On the other hand, Islam is inseparable from government. Muhammad was just as much a political leader as a religious one, and his most respected followers all followed in those footsteps. All the most respected people who Muslims, especially Sunni Muslims (The rightly guided Caliphs), look to emulate were holy warriors who expanded the empire through conquest.
Received a frantic phone call from my older sister last night, she was panicking. Turns out my other sister was holidaying in Germany, and my sister was convinced she'd gone to this Christmas market, because she remembered hearing from my sister that she was going to a Christmas market. Thankfully everything is okay, my sister was in Munich, not Berlin. But god damn that feeling of reading the newspapers and hoping that my sister is alright. Fuck these stupid cunts, I wish they'd stop.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51555205][B]Because those groups are not as great as the other and does not create as great of an impact on the society.[/B]This is also an imported problem, the others are native problems - huge difference. Random nazi attacks while they are despicable does not even come close to the magnitude of attacks like rapes, murders, robberies etc committed by the massive amount of "bad apples" of the other group.[/QUOTE] That is, in fact, wrong. You mean "random nazi attacks" like the NSU? Did you even hear about the NSU? Probably not, even though they're responsible for the 2004 bombings in cologne, the murder of nine immigrants and 14 (!) bank robberies. Or maybe the NPD which literally is a Nazi party. Or the neo nazi gatherings in general which regularly display the most hateful side of Germany. I could go on and on about the ring wing terror in Germany which is responsible for more than 150 deaths since 1990. But people read one news article about islamistic terror and once again that supposedly proves of how much islam is a problem. People ignore the fact that the islamic state simply grew from the power vacum in the middle east, which was created by the west, most notably the United States of America. People ignore the fact that Germany has been one of the biggest arms dealers in the world for decades and then wonder where all the refugees come from. [QUOTE=sgman91;51555524]There's one massive difference between Islam and Christianity: their respective connections to government. Christianity spawned in a time when it's followers had zero power for hundreds of years, for generations and generations of believers. The Bible also gives explicit instructions on living peaceably within a society that doesn't agree with you. Every single founder of Christianity including Jesus and the apostles had zero political power in the governmental system. Jesus, in the Bible, even goes so far as to make some of the first statements on the separation of church and state in history ("Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's" and specifically saying that his kingdom is not of this world, and therefore his followers won't try to rebel against the worldly authorities in the name of their religion.) On the other hand, Islam is inseparable from government. Muhammad was just as much a political leader as a religious one, and his most respected followers all followed in those footsteps. All the most respected people who Muslims, especially Sunni Muslims (The rightly guided Caliphs), look to emulate were holy warriors who expanded the empire through conquest.[/QUOTE] Oh, please. The followers of Christianity had the power all the time to overthrow their leaders. They didn't, because while the church wasn't part of the government it was a separate power by itself. There's a saying in Germany about that. Said the king to the priest: "You keep them stupid, I'll keep them poor." Especially during the middle ages the pope had as much power as any king in Europe, if not more. Saying that Christianity or the Christian Church had zero political power in history is horribly wrong, sorry.
[QUOTE=uber.;51555578]Oh, please. The followers of Christianity had the power all the time to overthrow their leaders. They didn't, because while the church wasn't part of the government it was a separate power by itself. There's a saying in Germany about that. Said the king to the priest: "You keep them stupid, I'll keep them poor." Especially during the middle ages the pope had as much power as any king in Europe, if not more.[/QUOTE] Notice that I didn't say Christians never had political power. I said that it isn't an inherent part of the religion like it is in Islam.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51555524]There's one massive difference between Islam and Christianity: their respective connections to government. Christianity spawned in a time when it's followers had zero power for hundreds of years, for generations and generations of believers. The Bible also gives explicit instructions on living peaceably within a society that doesn't agree with you. Every single founder of Christianity including Jesus and the apostles had zero political power in the governmental system. Jesus, in the Bible, even goes so far as to make some of the first statements on the separation of church and state in history ("Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's" and specifically saying that his kingdom is not of this world, and therefore his followers won't try to rebel against the worldly authorities in the name of their religion.) On the other hand, Islam is inseparable from government. Muhammad was just as much a political leader as a religious one, and his most respected followers all followed in those footsteps. All the most respected people who Muslims, especially Sunni Muslims (The rightly guided Caliphs), look to emulate were holy warriors who expanded the empire through conquest.[/QUOTE] What are you talking about, Christianity has over a thousand years of kings and emperors legitimizing their despotic rule though the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_right_of_kings]divine right[/url]
Fuck, the best to all the victims and their families
[QUOTE=Overhauser;51555598]What are you talking about, Christianity has over a thousand years of kings and emperors legitimizing their despotic rule though the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_right_of_kings"]divine right[/URL][/QUOTE] Please actually read what I said and refer to my response to uber. The idea of divine right of kings didn't pop up until at least the 7th century, 500 years after the death of the founders of Christianity.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51555595]Notice that I didn't say Christians never had political power. I said that it isn't an inherent part of the religion like it is in Islam.[/QUOTE] "God has willed that I shall be your ruler. Go ask the church." [QUOTE=sgman91;51555610]Please actually read what I said and refer to my response to uber. The idea of divine right of kings didn't pop up until at least the 7th century, 500 years after the death of the founders of Christianity.[/QUOTE] Since there is no actual difference in the outcome I don't think that's significant. Both are open to be abused by political leaders.
A refugee center has been raided by the police during the night. Noone was taken in, 4 people have been questioned, the dude they took during the night switches between not talking at all and saying that he is from Pakistan/Afghanistan. [url]http://www.tagesschau.de/newsticker/berlin-breitscheidplatz-111.html#Details-zum-SEK-Einsatz-in-Fluechtlingsunterkunft[/url]
The 37 year truckdriver, had been shot, said Karl-Heinz Schröter in DPA. Sauce: [url]http://www.bt.dk/udland/flygtning-fra-pakistan-nu-begynder-sloeret-at-blive-revet-af-manden-bag-massakren-i[/url] (Danish news paper, live feed) The suspect they caught, is a refugee who came to Germany th 31. Dec last year (said Die Welt?), and is known for minor crimes. 49 people in the hospital, 18 serious wounded. Edit Pressmeeting at 11:00 (GMT +1) with updates.
Man I'm going to Berlin for Valentines day. Makes me sort of scared
[QUOTE=Nak;51555794]The 37 year truckdriver, had been shot, said Karl-Heinz Schröter in DPA. Sauce: [url]http://www.bt.dk/udland/flygtning-fra-pakistan-nu-begynder-sloeret-at-blive-revet-af-manden-bag-massakren-i[/url] (Danish news paper, live feed) The suspect they caught, is a refugee who came to Germany th 31. Dec last year (said Die Welt?), and is known for minor crimes. 49 people in the hospital, 18 serious wounded. Edit Pressmeeting at 11:00 (GMT +1) with updates.[/QUOTE] Welt infos haven't been confirmed by any official source [editline]20th December 2016[/editline] Crazy shit: [img]http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/bilder/dresden-209~_v-videowebl.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51555205]Because those groups are not as great as the other and does not create as great of an impact on the society. This is also an imported problem, the others are native problems - huge difference. Random nazi attacks while they are despicable does not even come close to the magnitude of attacks like rapes, murders, robberies etc committed by the massive amount of "bad apples" of the other group.[/QUOTE] Maaan you better hide in your bunker because brown people are coming for you!! Do you even see what you keep spitting out? Your hate boner for muslims is huge maybe you should stop taking right wing media viagra pills for a little while so maybe you can open your tiny claustrophobic mind. every thing you keep preaching about on this forums makes you look like a nazi sympathiser.
[QUOTE=Overhauser;51555946]Welt infos haven't been confirmed by any official source [editline]20th December 2016[/editline] Crazy shit: [img]http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/bilder/dresden-209~_v-videowebl.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] This is what the site listed: Berlin's police Twitter, Reuters, AFP and DPA. Any "official" source will first get released at the press conference at 14:30 (GMT+1)
[QUOTE=Nak;51555994]This is what the site listed: Berlin's police Twitter, Reuters, AFP and DPA. Any "official" source will first get released at the press conference at 14:30 (GMT+1)[/QUOTE] Confirmed by BKA now but at the time the Welt was as shitty as usual and didn't give a source
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51555205]Because those groups are not as great as the other and does not create as great of an impact on the society. This is also an imported problem, the others are native problems - huge difference. Random nazi attacks while they are despicable does not even come close to the magnitude of attacks like rapes, murders, robberies etc committed by the massive amount of "bad apples" of the other group.[/QUOTE] - On US soil 2.5% of all terror Attucks were carried out by muslims - Muslims are the victims of over 80% of all terror attacks (this alone should shake up your retarded bullshit - why would 'followers' kill the real innocent followers of their religion) - Less than 2% of terror in Europe is Islamic - If all terror ever was committed by Muslims it would still account for less than 0.00009% of Muslims. There are genuine criticisms to be directed at Islam and Islamic terror but you just need to fucking go outside and see the world doesn't start and stop at the end of your nose.
[QUOTE=Crumpet;51556097]- On US soil 2.5% of all terror Attucks were carried out by muslims - Muslims are the victims of over 80% of all terror attacks (this alone should shake up your retarded bullshit - why would 'followers' kill the real innocent followers of their religion) - Less than 2% of terror in Europe is Islamic - If all terror ever was committed by Muslims it would still account for less than 0.00009% of Muslims. There are genuine criticisms to be directed at Islam and Islamic terror but you just need to fucking go outside and see the world doesn't start and stop at the end of your nose.[/QUOTE] Now all you have to do is post where those numbers come from or your post is literally empty.
[QUOTE=Firewarrior;51556127]Now all you have to do is post where those numbers come from or your post is literally empty.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-muslims-carried-out-more-than-90-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-america/5333619[/url] [QUOTE=sgman91;51555610]Please actually read what I said and refer to my response to uber. The idea of divine right of kings didn't pop up until at least the 7th century, 500 years after the death of the founders of Christianity.[/QUOTE] Does it matter? It's still using religion to control the masses and create policy. Your argument is pointless since the end result is the same exact thing.
[QUOTE=mchapra;51556135][url]http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-muslims-carried-out-more-than-90-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-america/5333619[/url] Does it matter? It's still using religion to control the masses and create policy. Your argument is pointless since the end result is the same exact thing.[/QUOTE] Okay, that's one out of four When posting numbers ALWAYS post sources
[QUOTE=Firewarrior;51556146]Okay, that's one out of four When posting numbers ALWAYS post sources[/QUOTE] I can't source the other claims right now but the 2.5% claim seems legitimate, though the source that compiled some of these results seems biased but the results originate from a pretty good [URL="https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005#terror_05sum"]FBI report[/URL].
[QUOTE=Firewarrior;51556127]Now all you have to do is post where those numbers come from or your post is literally empty.[/QUOTE] Sure :) [url]https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005[/url] [url]https://thinkprogress.org/less-than-2-percent-of-terrorist-attacks-in-the-e-u-are-religiously-motivated-cec7d8ebedf6#.w1ocuauh9[/url] [url]http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/[/url] [url]https://www.ctc.usma.edu/posts/deadly-vanguards-a-study-of-al-qaidas-violence-against-muslims[/url] [url]http://www.globalresearch.ca/muslims-are-the-victims-of-between-82-and-97-of-terrorism-related-fatalities-us-government/5516565[/url] [url]http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/IQ/UNAMI_OHCHR_POC_Report_FINAL_6July_10September2014.pdf[/url] [url]http://www.datagraver.com/case/people-killed-by-terrorism-per-year-in-western-europe-1970-2015[/url] [url]https://ourworldindata.org/terrorism/[/url]
[QUOTE=Bucketboy;51555957]Maaan you better [U]hide in your bunker[/U] because [U]brown people are coming[/U] for you!! Do you even see what you keep [U]spitting out[/U]? Your [U]hate boner for muslims[/U] is huge maybe you should [U]stop taking right wing media viagra[/U] pills for a little while so maybe you can open [U]your tiny claustrophobic mind[/U]. every thing you [U]keep preaching[/U] about on this forums makes you look like a [U]nazi sympathiser[/U].[/QUOTE] Didn't we learn that this type of dumb speech leads no where after Trump won ? You wont change someones mind by insulting them.
[QUOTE=AntonioR;51556346]Didn't we learn that this type of dumb speech leads no where after Trump won ? You wont change someones mind by insulting them.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it just turns into frantic wailing about how "shit" things are getting and they can't believe "this" happened. People keep dying and the response seems to always be "get over it you fucking man-child," and the right-wing nationalist parties keep getting more and more popular because of it. Fucking, how ignorant can you be to ignore this rhetoric is what put Trump into office, and is poised to do just as much in Europe? These attacks are happening, more often by the year. People look at Nice, they look at this, they look at Brussels and they look at Paris and all they see is people like him shouting at them to "ignore it, you fucking Nazi sympathizer, the brown people aren't coming for you." Well guess what? It really looks like they are to many people, and those people have voices that are getting heard by more than a few political parties.
[QUOTE=Perrine;51555074]German media reporting that the arrested suspect is a Pakistani refugee and the attack followed indications several days prior [url]https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/live160453735/Lkw-Fahrer-soll-als-Fluechtling-ins-Land-gekommen-sein.html[/url][/QUOTE] They just reported that this likely isn't their man. Suspect considered to be still at large.
-snip-
[QUOTE=bunguer;51556536][url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Europe[/url]. [/QUOTE] okay so 2.5% of all terrorist attacks might have been Islam-related, but 92% of motivations in terrestrial terrorist attacks in the last 2 years in Europe (as far as I can see) have been Islamic. I didn't know it was that high.
[QUOTE=bunguer;51556536]Every thread where there is a terrorist attack we go around in circles and circles. It doesn't even matter how many terrorist attacks are native or how many problems a country might have, the fact is that random large attacks in populated civillian areas are attributed to the usual suspects ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Europe[/url]). You can't put all the attacks in the same bag, this condescending attitude is what will make the far-right rise again. We need to take measures and speak about this subject without being preached about being nazi sympathizers, what the hell is wrong with you? Do you like to throw around insults like that? Is that a rational argument for you?[/QUOTE] It becomes increasingly hard to talk about the subject when people insist on blaming such things on the religion itself and not the treatment of those who follow it.
[QUOTE=Tamschi;51553900]I'm going to do a little interpretation here because Maestro Fenix's post seems to be a little jumbled (no offence intended), but the main issue here is, I think, that if you want to live in a relatively free democratic society, you can't just apply those values selectively and ignore them for certain benign behaviour, even that behaviour is totally idiosyncratic and foreign to you. In this specific example, going after Islam as a whole would corrupt our society with just about the same kind of intolerance that the measure would most likely purport to be against (not to mention the amount of resentment it would fuel in people who didn't plan to harm anyone else whatsoever). [B]It's important to be intolerant against intolerance[/B], but [B]that entails looking closely and taking precise and proportionate measures[/B] instead of taking out the wooden hammer, so to speak. Of course the latter would be way 'easier' in the short run and we wouldn't have to spend much energy thinking about what we consider right or wrong, but at the same time it most likely wouldn't actually solve or even lessen the issue of terrorism.[/QUOTE] It was supposed that to be implicit as just saying it is redundant, but well, seems that even the most simple of sentences can be not understood nowdays. Thanks for the explanation to the rest of people.
Yep. Media reports that the guy they took in might be the wrong one.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.