• Russia sending spacecraft to knock out Earth-Killing Asteroid
    189 replies, posted
[QUOTE=TheDecryptor;19368990]There wouldn't be a fireball, space is a vacuum. It'd throw out a lot of radiation along the spectrum, and produce some heat, but it'd behave radically different to what it would do on Earth (vacuum vs. atmosphere) The US have detonated nuclear bombs very high up, where the atmosphere is very thin (so you're "close" to a vacuum), it lit up the atmosphere (artificial aurora) and messed with ground based electronics and satellites (Electro-Magnetic Pulse), but no fire or shockwave or anything physically destructive. Edit: You'd probably have better luck drilling down to the core of the asteroid and stuffing it with conventional explosives, of course that doesn't actually do anything to reduce the danger, it just makes for a Sci-Fi movie with an Aerosmith song and Bruce Willis.[/QUOTE] The fireball is usually caused by intense IR radiation is it not? Space may be a vacuum, but an asteroid isn't. Surely the sheer intensity of the radiation (not to mention the shock wave that would pass through the asteroid and reverberate if it didn't break apart immediately given that it can't escape into the surrounds (space) would be enough to destroy a significant portion of the asteroid surrounding the blast. Much like when nukes are detonated under the ground and it forms a massive hollowed out area which causes the land above to cave in forming a crater.
[QUOTE=sltungle;19370234]Plus, space may be a vacuum, but an asteroid isn't.[/QUOTE] An asteroid has no atmosphere. [QUOTE=sltungle;19370234]Surely the sheer intensity of the radiation (not to mention the shock wave that would pass through the asteroid and reverberate if it didn't break apart immediately given that it can't escape into the surrounds (space) would be enough to destroy a significant portion of the asteroid surrounding the blast. Much like when nukes are detonated under the ground and it forms a massive hollowed out area which causes the land above to cave in forming a crater.[/QUOTE] Gravity isn't the same on an asteroid. It's too big to all break apart from 1 conventional nuke Radiation won't cause it to break apart at all and no there will not be a fireball at all.
[QUOTE=MisterMooth;19300061]Just watch them knock the asteroid into a path closer to the Earth.[/QUOTE] Them Russians. :P
[QUOTE=Virtanen;19353665]He's swedish.[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.castfvg.it/zzz/nasa/shuttle/sts116/crew/fuglesang_christer_001.jpg[/img] .
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;19370268]An asteroid has no atmosphere.[/QUOTE] The asteroid ITSELF. Not the area around it. The asteroid is matter, vacuum is an area of space that is absent of any matter, ergo an asteroid is not a vacuum. It'll still transmit heat through conduction is what I was saying (plus the shock wave would carry through it too). [QUOTE=DOG-GY;19370268]Gravity isn't the same on an asteroid. It's too big to all break apart from 1 conventional nuke Radiation won't cause it to break apart at all and no there will not be a fireball at all.[/QUOTE] I'm not going to completely accept that unless I see any proof because, from what I've seen, subterranean nuclear blasts do seem to hollow an area out (which would suggest that the direct area around it is either melted, or vapourised), so I can't see why it wouldn't work with an asteroid. I'm not suggesting that it would cave in (of course not, as you said, an asteroid doesn't exactly have a very strong gravitational pull), I was just using that as evidence that the area around a nuke that's detonated under ground must be reduced from solid matter to something else. If you can get me some examples though, or find some numbers to prove it then that seems fair to me.
The best thing that could be done is to put a large number of Gmod type thrusters on it, then turn them all on at the same time. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ozKUXiAs1Q[/media]
[QUOTE=GoldenGnome;19300674]commie bastids tryina take out the good ol us of a i'll show em what fer mildred get the twelve gauge[/QUOTE] Jesus the news can be boring, but the comments are always gold. Thanks Facepunch. :buddy: [editline]11:17PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Dejarie;19325118]In Soviet Russia, Asteroid attempt to knock you off course![/QUOTE] .
[QUOTE=sltungle;19370534]The asteroid ITSELF. Not the area around it. The asteroid is matter, vacuum is an area of space that is absent of any matter, ergo an asteroid is not a vacuum. It'll still transmit heat through conduction is what I was saying (plus the shock wave would carry through it too). I'm not going to completely accept that unless I see any proof because, from what I've seen, subterranean nuclear blasts do seem to hollow an area out (which would suggest that the direct area around it is either melted, or vapourised), so I can't see why it wouldn't work with an asteroid. I'm not suggesting that it would cave in (of course not, as you said, an asteroid doesn't exactly have a very strong gravitational pull), I was just using that as evidence that the area around a nuke that's detonated under ground must be reduced from solid matter to something else. If you can get me some examples though, or find some numbers to prove it then that seems fair to me.[/QUOTE] Seems I overestimated the size. My point was that it seemed you were saying that a fireball effect could occur because the asteroid was not in a vacuum. Reading the correct size of the asteroid as well as looking at nuclear crater sizes it would most likely get blown to bits. My bad yo
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;19371346]Seems I overestimated the size. My point was that it seemed you were saying that a fireball effect could occur because the asteroid was not in a vacuum. Reading the correct size of the asteroid as well as looking at nuclear crater sizes it would most likely get blown to bits. My bad yo[/QUOTE] That's alright, man. Although actually, I was talking about a large one. I think the ELE ones are generally like 1KM in diametre. Tsar bomba had an INCREDIBLY large fireball and shockwave (the seismic shock was detected on its THIRD pass around the world), so I suppose that might obliterate one.
What's with the "hurr durr knowing Russia it will fuck it up" :bandwagon:?
[QUOTE=sltungle;19371439]That's alright, man. Although actually, I was TALKING about a large one. I think the ELE ones are generally like 1KM in diametre. Tsar bomba had an INCREDIBLY large fireball and shockwave (the seismic shock was detected on its THIRD pass around the world), so I suppose that might obliterate one.[/QUOTE] From a quick google search, I found a crater that's about 400 meters in diameter, and 100 meters deep. That should be a good enough size to blow it into bits, though they would probably opt for a bit larger. I'd also like to see the effects of barely any gravity on the actual explosion, if they go with blowing it up. I'd also like to figure out what sizes the fragments left over from the asteroid could be. I also can't find any information on meteorite sizes before they burn up partially and impact.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;19371641]From a quick google search, I found a crater that's about 400 meters in diameter, and 100 meters deep. That should be a good enough size to blow it into bits, though they would probably opt for a bit larger. I'd also like to see the effects of barely any gravity on the actual explosion, if they go with blowing it up. I'd also like to figure out what sizes the fragments left over from the asteroid could be. I also can't find any information on meteorite sizes before they burn up partially and impact.[/QUOTE] Tsar bomba was originally meant to be a 100 megaton bomb, but it was scaled down to 50ish (53 I believe). I'm sure the original design would be quite effective. [b]Edit:[/b] Oh, plus, you've got to remember that Tsar Bomba was detonated in the air. 4KM above the ground. The creator would no doubt be MUCH larger if it was detonated closer to, or on the ground (and if it was detonated subterraneanly I'm sure it'd have been huge, too).
[QUOTE=Tools;19300637]Knowing russia, they'll do exactly this.[/QUOTE] With all the vodka, who knows what the fuck they will end up doing...
[QUOTE=sltungle;19370534]The asteroid ITSELF. Not the area around it. The asteroid is matter, vacuum is an area of space that is absent of any matter, ergo an asteroid is not a vacuum. It'll still transmit heat through conduction is what I was saying (plus the shock wave would carry through it too). ...[/QUOTE] What medium would the shockwave propagate through? On Earth you have the atmosphere, water, ground, etc. But what do you have in space?
[QUOTE=TheDecryptor;19375865]What medium would the shockwave propagate through? On Earth you have the atmosphere, water, ground, etc. But what do you have in space?[/QUOTE] Magic.
[QUOTE=TheDecryptor;19375865]What medium would the shockwave propagate through? On Earth you have the atmosphere, water, ground, etc. But what do you have in space?[/QUOTE] The asteroid itself. It's solid matter. I'm not talking about detonating the nuke ABOVE the asteroid, but from WITHIN it. The surrounding material will absorb a great amount of energy (enough to either melt, or vapourise it even) causing the particles to be displaced which would ripple out in a spherical shape from the centre of the blast. The article on wikipedia on subterranean nuclear detonations has an interesting part: [quote]The energy of the nuclear explosion is released in one microsecond. In the following few microseconds, the test hardware and surrounding rock are vaporised, with temperatures of several million degrees and pressures of several million atmospheres.[25] The heat and expanding shock wave cause the surrounding rock to vaporise, or being melted further away, creating a melt cavity.[26][/quote] The melt cavity has a radius of 4-12 metres per cubic root of the yield in kilotons. Taking the smaller of the two values, and assuming a bomb the side of Tsar bomba (50 megatons (which is 50000 kilotons) yields 147.36126 metres (which is the radius, so the diametre would be roughly 300 metres). [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_nuclear_testing[/url]
[url]http://www.carloslabs.com/projects/200712B/GroundZero.html[/url] If it hit anywhere it would fuck shit up.
pointless
A problem with using a tsar bomba-sized nuke may be the weight, since the tsar bomba itself was 27 tonnes, and if you're gonna detonate it from within the asteroid you'll need some kind of machinery on it to bury it, plus all the spacecraft bits of it. All of these things would most likely mean that a whole new rocket would need to be designed especially for it (and it would cost a fuckload), whereas a spacecraft that attaches to the asteroid and slowly alters its trajectory over time could use an existing one. [editline]06:09PM[/editline] So in my opinion it would be more likely that the trajectory altering approach would be investigated first.
[QUOTE=Uber|nooB;19379209]A problem with using a tsar bomba-sized nuke may be the weight, since the tsar bomba itself was 27 tonnes, and if you're gonna detonate it from within the asteroid you'll need some kind of machinery on it to bury it, plus all the spacecraft bits of it. All of these things would most likely mean that a whole new rocket would need to be designed especially for it (and it would cost a fuckload), whereas a spacecraft that attaches to the asteroid and slowly alters its trajectory over time could use an existing one. [editline]06:09PM[/editline] So in my opinion it would be more likely that the trajectory altering approach would be investigated first.[/QUOTE] The big white patch idea would be even easier (assuming it actually works... I always figured anything that would act to move anything via radiation pressure would have to be HUGE (which is why solar sails are said to need to be many kilometres across).
[QUOTE=Virtanen;19353665]He's swedish.[/QUOTE] You've never seen Amrageddon. Go watch it now.
[QUOTE=Virtanen;19353665]He's swedish.[/QUOTE] "This is how we fix problem in Russian Space Station!" [img]http://www.filmdope.com/Gallery/ActorsS/16620-23990.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=TurbisV2;19344634]How do you know russia?[/QUOTE] So I guess Russia being around for 1200 odd years and most of their history being recorded doesn't mean much.
In Soviet Russia, I Already Know Someone Has Stolen That Joke Already Somehow.
Why can't they just: [URL=http://img689.imageshack.us/i/lolololololololo.png/][IMG]http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1197/lolololololololo.png[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://g.imageshack.us/img689/lolololololololo.png/][IMG]http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/lolololololololo.png/w800.png[/IMG][/URL] Srsly guise.. No seriously, why don't they just do this? I'm no physicist and know nothing about this, so answers please, or :wtc: I'm surprised noone else came up with this idea, I mean, you just launch the nuke towards the rock, and detonate it really close to the side of the rock facing Earth, shouldn't it just be affected by the force of the blast of the explosion and be sent into the other direction?
not sure if your joking or not but i shall point you to here [url]http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=11760[/url] (hope that link works for you) its not for the people who like short easy tell you though it will explain lots about nukes in vacuums. Also, if you don't mind a fair bit of technical reading you can read this[url]http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/bsf3-1.php[/url] you could just read the sections on gravity and mechanics and trajectories, that will help uderstand the reason that idea wouldn't work.:eng101:
[QUOTE=redsoxrock;19519993]not sure if your joking or not but i shall point you to here [url]http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=11760[/url] (hope that link works for you) its not for the people who like short easy tell you though it will explain lots about nukes in vacuums. Also, if you don't mind a fair bit of technical reading you can read this[url]http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/bsf3-1.php[/url] you could just read the sections on gravity and mechanics and trajectories, that will help uderstand the reason that idea wouldn't work.:eng101:[/QUOTE] I'm not reading all of the shit in those links, just a little :v: So to make it short blast waves can't exist in space, therefore the asteroid wouldn't be abel to be pushed away by the nuke's blast wave?
In new Russia, Asteroid fears YOU[I]!![/I]
I'm no astronomy expert but.. If this Asteroid were to hit earth either in one giant piece or several. Would it change the earths axis in any way? Just curious.
[QUOTE=marcus;19300595]They will make it hit the US[/QUOTE] Damn you, I was going to say that. I'd find it hilarious if it gets knocked closer to Earth somehow. I mean, I'd find it hilarious [i]until [/i] it actually [i]hits[/i] Earth. Then I'd just be shitting my pants, probably.
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