Carjacking stalls; would-be thief left grinding his gears
118 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Antdawg;47151232]boo hoo, 9 out of 10 people who drive cars do so out of necessity, not passion. Better that those 9 people are all driving cars which are as efficient as possible, than none of them.
Going along the lines of your argument anyways, a car such as a Tesla must have no soul at all considering they have quiet electric engines and don't have gearboxes? But Facepunch seems to have a collective boner for them?[/QUOTE]
Are you kidding me? A Tesla is awesome! Instant torque!
[QUOTE=Antdawg;47151232]boo hoo, 9 out of 10 people who drive cars do so out of necessity, not passion. Better that those 9 people are all driving cars which are as efficient as possible, than none of them.
Going along the lines of your argument anyways, a car such as a Tesla must have no soul at all considering they have quiet electric engines and don't have gearboxes? But Facepunch seems to have a collective boner for them?[/QUOTE]
That's different. An electric car with no soul would be a leaf or Prius. The Tesla was built with performance in mind, as well as luxury. As such, it has monstrous amounts of torque and surprising high end. No engine noise no, but with your brain firmly planted in the back of your skull you wont even notice.
[QUOTE=Prismatex;47151268]Are you kidding me? A Tesla is awesome! Instant torque![/QUOTE]
So where's the soul? In the 'instant torque'? Who said it's impossible for a car with a CVT to have 'instant torque'? I mean, I'm only following the wording of your argument.
what's the general consensus on static shift with stick loving gearheads
Coming from someone who drove a manual vehicle (an atv) from 10 to 16 before getting to drive a car (which is automatic not by my choice) I don't get the hard on for manuals. They're fun when you're driving for kicks but when 99% of the time you're just driving to and from work they don't really add much. I mean my car's extremely fuel efficient, hasn't had to be fixed other than regular maintenance in over 8 years, and is an automatic.
I bought a $1200 car and trashed the clutch in 15 days, then I bought a brand new car with a manual transmission and got a $600 trade in on the trashed clutch car.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;47151347]So where's the soul? In the 'instant torque'? Who said it's impossible for a car with a CVT to have 'instant torque'? I mean, I'm only following the wording of your argument.[/QUOTE]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think normal cars can have instant torque due to the torque rising with the RPMs and gearing.
[QUOTE=Dark Descent;47151598]Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think normal cars can have instant torque due to the torque rising with the RPMs and gearing.[/QUOTE]
Not true. If you slip your clutch and rev to torque peak you essentially get near instant torque oh wait.
[QUOTE=GordonZombie;47150323]Wait, are manual transmissions that rare over in the US?[/QUOTE]
Yes. I have absolutely no clue how to drive stick and I expect I never will need to if I continue living in the US.
too bad it's so difficult to find manual transmission cars here. and it's even getting difficult to buy them new. last time i went to a dealer they had 4 manuals out of like 50 cars
For me it's the opposite. I prefer automatic and can agree it's more fun with manual gears but I can't focus as good as I do in an automatic. It's like day and night. I will probably get a license for manual later but right now I just wanna go from A to B.
[QUOTE=GordonZombie;47150323]Wait, are manual transmissions that rare over in the US?[/QUOTE]
Yes, they are. Most new cars sold here don't even have an option for a manual anymore. Pickup trucks and SUVs lost their optional manuals almost a decade ago, now the [b]only[/b] model you can get with a proper gearbox is a Ram 2500 Cummins.
It makes shopping for new cars for people like me, who flat refuse to buy anything without a manual, a bit of a challenge. And it means we're more often than not left buying older cars since they're the only ones with sticks in 'em. Which I'm fine with, I personally hate most new cars and prefer older ones anyway, but not everyone is that way.
On the plus side it does mean my truck is thief proof. An '85 F150 is piss easy to hotwire, but I have an extra pedal under my dashboard and this odd steel lever poking up through the center of the floorboard that, combined, might as well be the same as posting an armed guard around the thing 24/7. People looking to joyride something, rob a bank, steal an ATM, or steal a vehicle for a one-time drug buy are the types of people that'd steal a truck like mine(I paid $500 for it eight years ago!) and none of them know how to drive a stick, so my truck is almost guaranteed not to get stolen. It also means I can squeeze 17MPG combined out of something with a carburetted 4.9L engine and not have to worry about my transmission conking out, which is a huge plus as well!
[QUOTE=Animosus;47150514]When I went to the states my friend's parents were surprised that I, at 18, had the ability to drive a manual with ease, although it was extremely weird getting used to shifting with the right hand instead of the left. They had no idea that manuals were extremely common in Australia and other countries.[/QUOTE]
That's pretty funny. I feel like shifting with my left hand would be like learning to drive all over again.
[QUOTE=Elspin;47151511]Coming from someone who drove a manual vehicle (an atv) from 10 to 16 before getting to drive a car (which is automatic not by my choice) I don't get the hard on for manuals. They're fun when you're driving for kicks but when 99% of the time you're just driving to and from work they don't really add much. I mean my car's extremely fuel efficient, hasn't had to be fixed other than regular maintenance in over 8 years, and is an automatic.[/QUOTE]
It creates a feeling of being more engaged with the car. I feel like I'm missing something when I drive an auto.
[QUOTE=Colliseemoe;47151979]That's pretty funny. I feel like shifting with my left hand would be like learning to drive all over again.[/QUOTE]
It was much easier than I thought it would be driving in a country that drives on the wrong side of the road. It all makes sense though, you just essentially flip everything you've been taught. Of course you have to think about it rather than it being automatic the first few times.
Only real issue I had was when I was driving on the I-5, I'd have the car in two lanes because of the fact I'm used to sitting right next to the lines on the right. Got pulled over for it actually, but the cop let me go when he heard my accent and saw my Australian drivers licence as well as the fact I was only 18.
[QUOTE=Colliseemoe;47151979]That's pretty funny. I feel like shifting with my left hand would be like learning to drive all over again.[/QUOTE]
I'd probably move my left hand and accidentally punch the door at least once.
[QUOTE=Elspin;47151511]Coming from someone who drove a manual vehicle (an atv) from 10 to 16 before getting to drive a car (which is automatic not by my choice) I don't get the hard on for manuals. They're fun when you're driving for kicks but when 99% of the time you're just driving to and from work they don't really add much. I mean my car's extremely fuel efficient, hasn't had to be fixed other than regular maintenance in over 8 years, and is an automatic.[/QUOTE]
Then you didn't drive it properly. My zx3 is only 130 hp but I still tear a hole through the front of my pants when I approach I-95 coming home from work. 6000 RPM doesn't produce a sound; it produces ecstasy.
[QUOTE=N.A.N.B;47150561]Wait, why do other countries still use stick-shift? Automatic is waaayyy easier.[/QUOTE]
You, my friend, are beyond salvation. If you don't understand it, I'm afraid you never will. Just the fact that "easier" is your thing to go by reveals a fundamental flaw.
[editline]16th February 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Antdawg;47151232]boo hoo, 9 out of 10 people who drive cars do so out of necessity, not passion. Better that those 9 people are all driving cars which are as efficient as possible, than none of them.
Going along the lines of your argument anyways, a car such as a Tesla must have no soul at all considering they have quiet electric engines and don't have gearboxes? But Facepunch seems to have a collective boner for them?[/QUOTE]
I admire Tesla for their work and their breakthroughs in electric vehicles but I don't really want one. But obviously saying this in a thread about Tesla results in many, many boxes because apparently that's a cardinal sin to some, bunch of tossers.
Facepunch isn't a hivemind.
[QUOTE=Propane Addict;47152132]Then you didn't drive it properly. My zx3 is only 130 hp but I still tear a hole through the front of my pants when I approach I-95 coming home from work. 6000 RPM doesn't produce a sound; it produces ecstasy.[/QUOTE]
It depends on where you live.
I spend about two hours every weekday driving to and from the university, sitting in traffic managing [I]maybe[/I] a 30mph average speed.
The only time I can open up my car's 200hp of RAW FURY (mated to a four speed auto slushbox) is when getting on the interstate for a brief ~5 miles, and then half the time I get stuck behind some snowbird doing 30mph in the merge lane.
[QUOTE=Prismatex;47152033]It creates a feeling of being more engaged with the car. I feel like I'm missing something when I drive an auto.[/QUOTE]
Mmmhm. More control over the car, better city mileage, more robust drivetrain, less maintenance intensive, highly thief resistant...mm, I can't really think of a reason to drive automatic that doesn't start with "I lost my left leg/right arm..."[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47152235]You, my friend, are beyond salvation. If you don't understand it, I'm afraid you never will. Just the fact that "easier" is your thing to go by reveals a fundamental flaw.
[editline]16th February 2015[/editline]
I admire Tesla for their work and their breakthroughs in electric vehicles but I don't really want one. But obviously saying this in a thread about Tesla results in many, many boxes because apparently that's a cardinal sin to some, bunch of tossers.
Facepunch isn't a hivemind.[/QUOTE]
Mmhm, not having a manual is a large part of why I want nothing to do with Teslas. I enjoy changing my own gears and that just isn't a thing that happens with EVs. I could rattle off a bunch of other reasons why I don't want a Tesla, but that's the biggest dealbreaker of them all. It would be boring for me to drive.
[QUOTE=Propane Addict;47152132]Then you didn't drive it properly. My zx3 is only 130 hp but I still tear a hole through the front of my pants when I approach I-95 coming home from work. 6000 RPM doesn't produce a sound; it produces ecstasy.[/QUOTE]
I've got about that much power in my truck and I still get that [i]fizz[/i] James May talks about from time to time when I'm getting on the freeway. Yeah, okay, I'm shifting up at a sedate 2500RPM rather than six, but still. Hearing that massive old lump screaming along, dragging six thousand pounds of Detroit iron up to a speed it really doesn't want to be moving? Mmmm. I loove it. And then the way it just purrs along when I grab fourth gear, just 1650RPM...it's a soothing, calming sound for a gearhead like me. It's not fast, I'd say 0-60 would clock in around 10-12 seconds, but still.
I would also like to make the argument that manual reduces the chance of you getting distracted at the wheel because it makes you be more involved in what you're doing. Sure, it becomes second nature and you don't have to think about it, but the engine noise, the feel of the power band and the vibrations are still something your body is paying attention to, while in an automatic you're just sorta there, pushing your pedal and telling it the direction you want it to go.
You're more involved with controlling the car, more connected to it, and therefore you're less likely to do something you didn't actually want to do because you had a brain fart or something. It gives you less space to wander.
I wonder if a study was ever made on this.
[QUOTE=N.A.N.B;47150561]Wait, why do other countries still use stick-shift? Automatic is waaayyy easier.[/QUOTE]
Hmm. Let's see why a manual is better using the vehicle I drive every day: A 1985 Ford F150. 4.9L carburetted I6 resides under the hood and it's got 310K on the odometer.
I have positive drive between engine and wheels. The C4 automatic was a solid box, but it was one of the slushiest boxes ever put behind an engine. They also don't like the stupidly low powerband of my I6, so they love to slip.
Fuel economy clocks in at 14-15 city 18-20 highway. There's no way in hell I could come remotely close to that sort of fuel economy with an automatic. My truck with an automatic would get 7-9 city 12-14 highway. But, I have a manual, so I get fuel economy on par with a brand new ecoboost F150 out of an engine older than I am and no more technologically advanced than my lawn tractor.
Anti-theft. My truck is the sort of truck that people who want to steal a random vehicle for joyriding, or who plan on stealing an ATM/wheels/etc, would boost. It isn't worth anything, but it's also piss easy to hotwire, tough as nails and has a sizeable bed/amount of pulling power, so thieves love to boost these things for one-time use in the commission of another crime. If I had an automatic I'd have to be paranoid as hell every time I park the thing at night, lest some boozehound or wannabe thug decide it's the ideal vehicle to boost an ATM with. But, because I have that third pedal, because I have a stickshift, nobody will waste their time trying. They can't drive it, so they won't even bother trying. The worst they'll do is open the door and rummage through my glove box, but the most valuable thing I keep in there is a 35 cent tire pressure gauge and a ten dollar crescent wrench.
Fun. I know, I know, it's an old farm truck, how can it be fun to drive? The manual gearbox, that's how. I enjoy trundling along in that thing and I highly doubt I'd enjoy that anywhere near as much if it were an automatic. I'd be too busy secondguessing the gearbox, asking it why it kicked down on that hill when there was more torque at 1400RPM than the 2200 it would then be having the engine turn.
Slippery condition driving. Automatics have a device in them that handles decoupling the engine from the wheels when you come to a stop, when they change gears. It's called a torque converter. These things, due to how they work, [i]multiply[/i] the torque coming from the engine. This is fine for pulling things, but it's not ideal on slick surfaces. Clutches do not do this, so it's easier to take off on snow and ice without spinning one's wheels.
Simplicity. There's less to go wrong in the drivetrain, so it lasts longer. It's also easier to maintain and much more robust when it comes time to use my truck as it was designed to be used. Which I do pretty frequently. I have the peace of mind of knowing that my transmission is more than strong enough to tow or haul anything I'll ever ask my truck to tow or haul, and that's not something I can say when I've got an automatic. When I drive my mom's '97 Explorer I always have part of my mind sensing the way it moves, feeling for the automatic to decide to pack it in, and I don't have that when I'm in any of my manually shifted vehicles.
Ease of service. I can change my clutch in about 12 hours using little more than a floor jack, a creeper, and basic hand tools. Did so once, a few years ago. If I do need to do work on a manual it's much easier for me to do in my own driveway than it is with an automatic, which means I spend even less on servicing.
Cheaper to buy the vehicle in the first place. Because so few people in America drive stick, having your mindset, I can use that as a bargaining chip. If I get the idea that the salesman is trying to play hardball with me I can just go 'Look, bub, that thing's got one too many pedals. You might get two or three people [i]a year[/i] walking in here who are willing to buy something with a stick, and at the price you're asking they're not going to be buying that one. Nor will I. I'm quite happy to wander off and go elsewhere, I've got three other cars just like it to look at today. That being said, I'd be happy to give yours a loving home, but you're gonna have to work with me here. Knock another ten percent off that price and we'll talk signatures, otherwise I'll go elsewhere." Works 95% of the time.
[QUOTE=TestECull;47152728]Hmm. Let's see why a manual is better using the vehicle I drive every day: A 1985 Ford F150. 4.9L carburetted I6 resides under the hood and it's got 310K on the odometer.
I have positive drive between engine and wheels. The C4 automatic was a solid box, but it was one of the slushiest boxes ever put behind an engine. They also don't like the stupidly low powerband of my I6, so they love to slip.
Fuel economy clocks in at 14-15 city 18-20 highway. There's no way in hell I could come remotely close to that sort of fuel economy with an automatic. My truck with an automatic would get 7-9 city 12-14 highway. But, I have a manual, so I get fuel economy on par with a brand new ecoboost F150 out of an engine older than I am and no more technologically advanced than my lawn tractor.
Anti-theft. My truck is the sort of truck that people who want to steal a random vehicle for joyriding, or who plan on stealing an ATM/wheels/etc, would boost. It isn't worth anything, but it's also piss easy to hotwire, tough as nails and has a sizeable bed/amount of pulling power, so thieves love to boost these things for one-time use in the commission of another crime. If I had an automatic I'd have to be paranoid as hell every time I park the thing at night, lest some boozehound or wannabe thug decide it's the ideal vehicle to boost an ATM with. But, because I have that third pedal, because I have a stickshift, nobody will waste their time trying. They can't drive it, so they won't even bother trying. The worst they'll do is open the door and rummage through my glove box, but the most valuable thing I keep in there is a 35 cent tire pressure gauge and a ten dollar crescent wrench.
Fun. I know, I know, it's an old farm truck, how can it be fun to drive? The manual gearbox, that's how. I enjoy trundling along in that thing and I highly doubt I'd enjoy that anywhere near as much if it were an automatic. I'd be too busy secondguessing the gearbox, asking it why it kicked down on that hill when there was more torque at 1400RPM than the 2200 it would then be having the engine turn.
Slippery condition driving. Automatics have a device in them that handles decoupling the engine from the wheels when you come to a stop, when they change gears. It's called a torque converter. These things, due to how they work, [i]multiply[/i] the torque coming from the engine. This is fine for pulling things, but it's not ideal on slick surfaces. Clutches do not do this, so it's easier to take off on snow and ice without spinning one's wheels.
Simplicity. There's less to go wrong in the drivetrain, so it lasts longer. It's also easier to maintain and much more robust when it comes time to use my truck as it was designed to be used. Which I do pretty frequently. I have the peace of mind of knowing that my transmission is more than strong enough to tow or haul anything I'll ever ask my truck to tow or haul, and that's not something I can say when I've got an automatic. When I drive my mom's '97 Explorer I always have part of my mind sensing the way it moves, feeling for the automatic to decide to pack it in, and I don't have that when I'm in any of my manually shifted vehicles.
Ease of service. I can change my clutch in about 12 hours using little more than a floor jack, a creeper, and basic hand tools. Did so once, a few years ago. If I do need to do work on a manual it's much easier for me to do in my own driveway than it is with an automatic, which means I spend even less on servicing.
Cheaper to buy the vehicle in the first place. Because so few people in America drive stick, having your mindset, I can use that as a bargaining chip. If I get the idea that the salesman is trying to play hardball with me I can just go 'Look, bub, that thing's got one too many pedals. You might get two or three people [i]a year[/i] walking in here who are willing to buy something with a stick, and at the price you're asking they're not going to be buying that one. Nor will I. I'm quite happy to wander off and go elsewhere, I've got three other cars just like it to look at today. That being said, I'd be happy to give yours a loving home, but you're gonna have to work with me here. Knock another ten percent off that price and we'll talk signatures, otherwise I'll go elsewhere." Works 95% of the time.[/QUOTE]
Most of those points do absolutely not matter to 95% of consumers. They utilize vehicles as tools, and they want their experience to be as easy and as user friendly as possible. That's why there are features like traction control and anti-theft devices that make most of your points moot anyway.
For a gearhead who likes to drive, sure, manuals make sense, but for the majority of consumers, or [i]the people who are the largest sources of revenue[/i] it makes sense to target them with automatics.
[QUOTE=Propane Addict;47152132]Then you didn't drive it properly. My zx3 is only 130 hp but I still tear a hole through the front of my pants when I approach I-95 coming home from work. 6000 RPM doesn't produce a sound; it produces ecstasy.[/QUOTE]
Yes. The only way that you should drive your car to and from work is to redline it at least once on each trip. Who cares about the unnecessary fuel consumption and wear and tear? After all, some pedestrians and other motorists might hear you do it, and there's gonna be a (very small) chance they might enjoy it (but 99% will think you're a hooning moron).
Don't worry, you'll grow out of that phase eventually.
That must be so embarrassing.
I can just imagine the thieves getting into the car, noticing the manual gear-shift and just jump out of the car and leg it.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;47153736]Yes. The only way that you should drive your car to and from work is to redline it at least once on each trip. Who cares about the unnecessary fuel consumption and wear and tear? After all, some pedestrians and other motorists might hear you do it, and there's gonna be a (very small) chance they might enjoy it (but 99% will think you're a hooning moron).
Don't worry, you'll grow out of that phase eventually.[/QUOTE]
It's worth stating that he never said he does this every day, you're just assuming he does because of his phrasing. And who cares about "unnecesarry fuel consumotion and wear and tear"? Like I can suddenly see that you've only had those few hours in a manual transmission car. Speaking as someone with a passion for cars, it's genuinely good to give your car an Italian tune-up every now and then, it keeps the engine and transmission from getting excessive sod (especially in older cars). It's not just for fun, it's genuinely healthy for the engine to give it some throttle on the occasional trips.
And honestly, what on earth made you write that last line? Are you seriously going to pull the phase card? He likes to drive his car like it should be driven, there's no reason to be such a boring person because of it. If you want to be green, then drive a Tesla or a Nissan Leaf but don't give him shit for driving a car passionately.
[QUOTE=Jackpody;47153975]It's worth stating that he never said he does this every day, you're just assuming he does because of his phrasing. And who cares about "unnecesarry fuel consumotion and wear and tear"? Like I can suddenly see that you've only had those few hours in a manual transmission car. Speaking as someone with a passion for cars, it's genuinely good to give your car an Italian tune-up every now and then, it keeps the engine and transmission from getting excessive sod (especially in older cars). It's not just for fun, it's genuinely healthy for the engine to give it some throttle on the occasional trips.
And honestly, what on earth made you write that last line? Are you seriously going to pull the phase card? He likes to drive his car like it should be driven, there's no reason to be such a boring person because of it. If you want to be green, then drive a Tesla or a Nissan Leaf but don't give him shit for driving a car passionately.[/QUOTE]
There's passion. And then there's:
[QUOTE=Propane Addict;47152132] but I still tear a hole through the front of my pants when I approach I-95 coming home from work. 6000 RPM doesn't produce a sound; it produces ecstasy.[/QUOTE]
Which is absolutely ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;47154171]There's passion. And then there's:
Which is absolutely ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
He's exaggerating, unless you actually think that sports car drivers are all reaching their destinations in ruined trousers
[QUOTE=Antdawg;47153736]Yes. The only way that you should drive your car to and from work is to redline it at least once on each trip.
[/QUOTE]
If you own a car with a Wankel engine you are supposed to redline it at least once per day :v:
My first (and current) car is a used 2000 Accord that I somehow found in manual.
After spending so much time with it, I can't think of a reason to switch to automatic if I ever get a new one - which sucks because I'm probably going to go through hell trying to find a standard transmission
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