• The Yearly Cost of Religious Tax Exemptions in the United States: $71,000,000,000
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[QUOTE=Mrs. Moon;36364572]I'm actually not saying different things, you just seem to be blind to what I'm actually trying to get across to you.[/QUOTE] What you're trying to get across has been changing with every post. "Jesus forgave all sins EXCEPT HOMOSEXUALITY" Again: If you are gay, are you forgiven if you believe in Christ? Not if you [I]"stop being gay"[/I]. I mean if you are gay and you have a gay husband and you raise a loving family, live and die by Christ, are you forgiven?
How are you supposed to know the difference between the old laws that don't apply and the ones that still do? Those silly laws like you can't eat pork don't apply anymore, but everyone knows homosexuality is still a sin. What? What is the criteria for silly law and not silly law? Don't say it's written in your heart because that's vague as all fuck, and "homosexuality is bad" isn't written anywhere on my body. I wouldn't have known it was a sin unless somebody told me it was, meaning it has to have some criteria.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364565] If your faith in Christ is written in your heart, then if you have broken God's law of shaving your face, cutting your hair or touching pigskin, then does that mean your faith is false? [/QUOTE] You are. I said the Law of God, not faith in Christ. Faith is something you choose to have. And we break God's law constantly. Like I said, the law shows us how frail we are, and nothing can redeem us but his forgiveness and grace.
[QUOTE=F T;36364594]You are. I said the Law of God, not faith in Christ. Faith is something you choose to have. And we break God's law constantly. Like I said, the law shows us how frail we are, and nothing can redeem us but his grace.[/QUOTE] So how come gays don't get forgiven but you do? Why are you forgiven for breaking God's laws but Christian gays aren't?
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364602]So how come gays don't get forgiven but you do? Why are you forgiven for breaking God's laws but Christian gays aren't?[/QUOTE] Gays are forgiven. I never said they weren't forgiven, just that their sexual preference is wrong.
[QUOTE=F T;36364609]Gays are forgiven. I never said they weren't forgiven, just that their sexual preference is wrong.[/QUOTE] Then how is having sex with altar boys not supported by the dogma? Would not a faithful priest be forgiven? You admit that simply because it is [I]wrong[/I] does not mean they are not forgiven for it.
[QUOTE=F T;36364609]Gays are forgiven. I never said they weren't forgiven, just that their sexual preference is wrong.[/QUOTE] But why is being gay still wrong, but touch pig skin is suddenly okay?
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364614]Then how is having sex with altar boys not supported by the dogma? Would not a faithful priest be forgiven?[/QUOTE] Yes, he would be forgiven.
[QUOTE=F T;36364627]Yes, he would be forgiven.[/QUOTE] Do you not see how the dogma supports and encourages these actions? That the only way for them to have sex as a priest and be forgiven by both God and the priesthood is to have sex with little boys? What you are saying is that faith is license to do anything you want as long as you say you love Christ. How is that not morally reprehensible? Is your god so vain as to grant you full immunity for all of your transgressions simply because you kiss his ass? (also FYI Rape is not considered a crime in "God's Law." Nothing in the Bible condemns rape, and multiple passages endorse it as a method of finding a wife.)
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;36364618]But why is being gay still wrong, but touch pig skin is suddenly okay?[/QUOTE] To quote Mrs. Moon: [QUOTE=Mrs. Moon;36364563]How do you not get this. Okay. So The Pharisees were the top priest guys. They were all high and mighty and were corrupt. They took advantage of their position and utilized the Bible for their own benefit. They used things like the pig and the hair cut rule to punish people who offended that and they would reap the benefits. Jesus came and said that that the meaning behind those laws was ruined because of them. So he generalized all the smaller laws in the OT *pigs, hair cuts* and said that the only true way to be saved is to follow him. He kind of just went "Screw it, forget that, here is what you need to do"[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SatansSin;36354632]71 billion dollars seriously? what the fuck To think that the money can go to NASA or something to help propel ourselves into space, and make a colonization of some sort... Would be amazing.[/QUOTE] Instead of spending money on expanding the human race on their current final frontier we'll give the money to people talking to a piece of wood :downs:
Religious Institutions are Institutions, and like all other institutions that have money flowing through them (corporations, companies) they need to pay fucking taxes. The fact that you can donate to a church, and that inbound money receives absolutely no taxation is just nuts. It'd be like [del]donating to[/del] investing in a corporation or a company and them not having to be taxed for the money coming in. [I] "I'm just going to make a gigantic [B]investment[/B] in this [B]company[/B], and they won't need to pay a dime in taxes from it."[/I] Does that sound correct? How about [I]"I'm just going to make a gigantic [B]donation[/B] to this [B]church[/B],[/I] and they won't need to pay a dime in taxes from it." is it suddenly correct now? Who cares if they do *some* charitable work. The *charity* of that charitable work is highly ambiguous and subjective in it's own right, too. If they reside in the country, operate in the country, and make money in the country then they need to pay their taxes just like every other denizen and institution.
Jesus said somewhere in Matthew that all foods were now clean. Homosexuality is still a sin because Jesus didn't comment on it. It's like when a bill is revised. They make changes to some parts of the bill, but leave others intact. Just because one clause is altered doesn't mean the whole thing is invalid. Homosexuality is a sin, lying is a sin, lust is a sin, cursing is a sin, they all deserve the same punishment from God. However, it is by grace that Christians are saved. Not by doing works (Which was how people were "Saved" in the OT by doing good things. Grace is something that we don't deserve. The Bible says that the wages of sin is death. So we all deserve to die, but Jesus paid the price for our sins. So yes, you can molest a child and still be saved. You can be Hitler and come back, repent and be saved. But only if you repent of your sins (Admit you're wrong) and truly mean it, that you'll be saved. The Bible says that God knows our hearts so if it's not like a child molester can just say "oh, sorry God" and just go on his merry way and not really feel repentant.
[QUOTE=Mrs. Moon;36364673]Jesus said somewhere in Matthew that all foods were now clean.[/QUOTE] footballs and haircuts aren't foods. Jesus commented on neither haircuts, facial hair, nor pig skin as being unclean to touch.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364634]Do you not see how the dogma supports and encourages these actions? That the only way for them to have sex as a priest and be forgiven by both God and the priesthood is to have sex with little boys?[/QUOTE] The dogma does not encourage this. Where do you see anywhere that it encourages priests to have sex with boys?
[QUOTE=F T;36364681]The dogma does not encourage this.[/QUOTE] But you just demonstrated exactly how it did. A priest is disallowed marriage, but will be forgiven by God for having sex with little boys. You can say "no it doesn't" all you want, you just explained how it does. That's who you'll be hanging out with in heaven.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364677]footballs and haircuts aren't foods. Jesus commented on neither haircuts, facial hair, nor pig skin as being unclean to touch.[/QUOTE] You are so literal. Did you not read what I posted a few posts up? About him saying that all those types of laws in the old testament were now invalid? You can't be saved that way. You don't get saved by giving to charities or doing good acts. People are saved by grace, what I said before.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364691]But you just demonstrated exactly how it did. A priest is disallowed marriage, but will be forgiven by God for having sex with little boys.[/QUOTE] A priest will be forgiven if he does anything wrong so long as he repents.
[QUOTE=Mrs. Moon;36364693]You are so literal.[/QUOTE] I'm literal? [QUOTE=Mrs. Moon;36364673]Homosexuality is still a sin because Jesus didn't comment on it.[/QUOTE] Ist thou not literal theeself, milord?
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364691]But you just demonstrated exactly how it did. A priest is disallowed marriage, but will be forgiven by God for having sex with little boys. You can say "no it doesn't" all you want, you just explained how it does. That's who you'll be hanging out with in heaven.[/QUOTE] Okay, Priest molests a child. He then feels destroyed and terrible and goes back, admits to his wrongdoings and truly feels sorry for what he's done. If God knows his heart and what he says is true, then he will be saved. But if he isn't truly sorry, he wont be saved.
[QUOTE=F T;36364698]A priest will be forgiven if he does anything wrong so long as he repents.[/QUOTE] So why would a priest [I]not[/I] have sex with little boys? If all he has to do is say "my bad" after he rapes a small child, how is that not encouraging the behavior when all other forms of sex are explicitly disallowed and result in immediate expulsion from the priesthood? [editline]17th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Mrs. Moon;36364707]Okay, Priest molests a child. He then feels destroyed and terrible and goes back, admits to his wrongdoings and truly feels sorry for what he's done. If God knows his heart and what he says is true, then he will be saved. But if he isn't truly sorry, he wont be saved.[/QUOTE] And you don't find that reprehensible, that all he has to do is say "sorry" and he gets away with rape. And yet a consensual, loving homosexual couple goes to hell forever because jesus didn't mention them. You aren't seeing anything ass-backwards with your beliefs?
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364699]I'm literal? Ist thou not literal theeself, milord?[/QUOTE] I'm starting to think you are purposely ignoring my posts. You are doing exactly what those other guys were doing. Picking and choosing what you wanted to hear for the sake of your own argument.
[QUOTE=Mrs. Moon;36364727]I'm starting to think you are purposely ignoring my posts. You are doing exactly what those other guys were doing. Picking and choosing what you wanted to hear for the sake of your own argument.[/QUOTE] I'm picking and choosing the thing you've said five times as a rebuttal to everything I've said, and then immediately denied the moment I bring it up.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364711]So why would a priest [I]not[/I] have sex with little boys? If all he has to do is say "my bad" after he rapes a small child, how is that not encouraging the behavior when all other forms of sex are explicitly disallowed and result in immediate expulsion from the priesthood?[/QUOTE] Because it's religion and part of their law. As Mrs. Moon said. [quote]If God knows his heart and what he says is true, then he will be saved. But if he isn't truly sorry, he wont be saved.[/quote] And still, if you mean encouraging it as if a priest gets off scot-free and everyone notices this and they decide to do the same, then they will pay for the consequences of their actions.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364711]So why would a priest [I]not[/I] have sex with little boys? If all he has to do is say "my bad" after he rapes a small child, how is that not encouraging the behavior when all other forms of sex are explicitly disallowed and result in immediate expulsion from the priesthood? [editline]17th June 2012[/editline] And you don't find that reprehensible, that all he has to do is say "sorry" and he gets away with rape. And yet a consensual homosexual couple goes to hell forever because jesus didn't mention them. You aren't seeing anything ass-backwards with your beliefs?[/QUOTE] No, I believe he needs to go to jail for a very long time if he does that. I'm not saying that he can just do that and be okay. He will be punished in this life but depending if he is truly sorry, he will be saved by God. However, if he just continues to lust towards children then of course, he isn't sorry and will go to hell. You are putting words in my mouth now.
[QUOTE=Mrs. Moon;36364673][B]Jesus said somewhere in Matthew that all foods were now clean.[/B] Homosexuality is still a sin because Jesus didn't comment on it. It's like when a bill is revised. They make changes to some parts of the bill, but leave others intact. Just because one clause is altered doesn't mean the whole thing is invalid. Homosexuality is a sin, lying is a sin, lust is a sin, cursing is a sin, they all deserve the same punishment from God. However, it is by grace that Christians are saved. Not by doing works (Which was how people were "Saved" in the OT by doing good things. Grace is something that we don't deserve. The Bible says that the wages of sin is death. So we all deserve to die, but Jesus paid the price for our sins. So yes, you can molest a child and still be saved. You can be Hitler and come back, repent and be saved. But only if you repent of your sins (Admit you're wrong) and truly mean it, that you'll be saved. The Bible says that God knows our hearts so if it's not like a child molester can just say "oh, sorry God" and just go on his merry way and not really feel repentant.[/QUOTE] Aaaaaactually it was in Mark... But even then the meaning is disputed depending on which translation you choose to follow. NIV pretty clearly states that all foods are clean, but NJV doesn't [I]directly[/I] say it, but rather says instead that we just poop bad stuff.
[QUOTE=F T;36364740]Because it's religion and part of their law.[/QUOTE] That's a cop-out. I'm asking you to explain the law and now you're just saying "because it is." Why is suddenly everything so arbitrary? You've had plenty of explanations up until now. Why, FT? Why is that the law? Why is it OKAY for that to be the law? Why is it OKAY for priests to rape little boys, face absolutely no prison time and then go to heaven when they repent on their deathbed? Why is it OKAY for you to harbor those people within your doors while your religion calls for the deaths of homosexuals?
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364731]I'm picking and choosing the thing you've said five times as a rebuttal to everything I've said, and then immediately denied the moment I bring it up.[/QUOTE] Um, no you seem to just not get it. Jesus was the Line-Item veto of the Bible. He talked about some things and changed them specifically. But others, he just threw the whole clause or article out. (Those being about unclean animals and haircuts)
He look it's the inevitably circular ending to every atheist vs religious argument ever. "God." "No, because-" "God." "No, because-" etc
[QUOTE=Mrs. Moon;36364744]No, I believe he needs to go to jail for a very long time if he does that. I'm not saying that he can just do that and be okay. He will be punished in this life but depending if he is truly sorry, he will be saved by God. However, if he just continues to lust towards children then of course, he isn't sorry and will go to hell. You are putting words in my mouth now.[/QUOTE] But then why are homosexuals condemned to hell if they do not give up their wicked ways? Why are they cast into the bowels of the inferno simply for loving and caring about the wrong person? Is that not love and compassion all the same? How can you say it is wrong to love another, but then so readily forgive a crime such as the rape of a child?
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