The Yearly Cost of Religious Tax Exemptions in the United States: $71,000,000,000
350 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364751]That's a cop-out.
I'm asking you to explain the law and now you're just saying "because it is." Why is suddenly everything so arbitrary? You've had plenty of explanations up until now.
Why, FT? Why is that the law? Why is it OKAY for that to be the law?
Why is it OKAY for priests to rape little boys, face absolutely no prison time and then go to heaven when they repent on their deathbed?
Why is it OKAY for you to harbor those people within your doors while your religion calls for the deaths of homosexuals?[/QUOTE]
When did I ever say it's OK? When I said it's part of their religion, I meant it as a response as to why priests wouldn't have sex with boys.
It's NOT OK for priests to rape little boys, and they will pay for their consequences, no matter how large or small the punishment is.
And where does my religion call for the death of homosexuals?
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364751]That's a cop-out.
I'm asking you to explain the law and now you're just saying "because it is." Why is suddenly everything so arbitrary? You've had plenty of explanations up until now.
Why, FT? Why is that the law? Why is it OKAY for that to be the law?
Why is it OKAY for priests to rape little boys, face absolutely no prison time and then go to heaven when they repent on their deathbed?
Why is it OKAY for you to harbor those people within your doors while your religion calls for the deaths of homosexuals?[/QUOTE]
You don't understand. They can't just magically say the word sorry and automatically get forgiven and go to heaven. The Bible says that God knows our hearts. If we repent to him but aren't really, he isn't going to forgive us. Do you understand what genuine regret is?
[QUOTE=Mrs. Moon;36364754]Jesus was the Line-Item veto of the Bible.[/QUOTE]
Except for gays.
[editline]17th June 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=F T;36364768]When did I ever say it's OK? When I said it's part of their religion, I meant it as a response as to why priests wouldn't have sex with boys.
It's NOT OK for priests to rape little boys, and they will pay for their consequences, no matter how large or small the punishment is.
And where does my religion call for the death of homosexuals?[/QUOTE]
Is Catholicism not [I]your[/I] religion?
Have you not spent hours defending the church?
[editline]17th June 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mrs. Moon;36364769]You don't understand. They can't just magically say the word sorry and automatically get forgiven and go to heaven. The Bible says that God knows our hearts. If we repent to him but aren't really, he isn't going to forgive us. Do you understand what genuine regret is?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364766]But then why are homosexuals condemned to hell if they do not give up their wicked ways?
Why are they cast into the bowels of the inferno simply for loving and caring about the wrong person? Is that not love and compassion all the same? How can you say it is wrong to love another, but then so readily forgive a crime such as the rape of a child?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mrs. Moon;36364769]You don't understand. They can't just magically say the word sorry and automatically get forgiven and go to heaven. The Bible says that God knows our hearts. If we repent to him but aren't really, he isn't going to forgive us. Do you understand what genuine regret is?[/QUOTE]
Does it matter if he regrets it or not? Even if he feels truly sorry, does it make raping a little boy OK? I'm pretty sure prisons are full of people who completely regretted their actions the moment they committed them, that doesn't absolve them from the responsibility.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364770]
Is Catholicism not [I]your[/I] religion?
Have you not spent hours defending the church?
[/QUOTE]
Yes it is, but I myself do not call for the death of gays. Do not confuse me with WBC.
Even if they call for death of homosexuals, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364766]But then why are homosexuals condemned to hell if they do not give up their wicked ways?
Why are they cast into the bowels of the inferno simply for loving and caring about the wrong person? Is that not love and compassion all the same? How can you say it is wrong to love another, but then so readily forgive a crime such as the rape of a child?[/QUOTE]
If a person accepts that they are gay and doesn't try to fit the mold of what God's plan for marriage or relationships was, then they won't get saved. It's as much of a sin as lying. I can accept that I'm a liar just as much as a gay man can accept that he is attracted towards men. However, if I know that lying is wrong and struggle to defeat that sin then I think I would be saved over somebody who thinks it's okay and openly lies just for fun. Same with the gay man. If he has feelings towards men, but knows it's wrong and still believes in the Bible and tries to defeat this "sin" that he struggles with, then he might get saved. I say might because I don't know. I'm no the judge of who gets saved and who doesn't God is the judge of that.
[QUOTE=F T;36364768]When did I ever say it's OK? When I said it's part of their religion, I meant it as a response as to why priests wouldn't have sex with boys.
It's NOT OK for priests to rape little boys, and they will pay for their consequences, no matter how large or small the punishment is.
And where does my religion call for the death of homosexuals?[/QUOTE]
Since God doesn't actually exist, you don't have to be genuine. You just have to fool other people into thinking you are sorry and they'll forgive you because they think God forgave you.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364751]That's a cop-out.
I'm asking you to explain the law and now you're just saying "because it is." Why is suddenly everything so arbitrary? You've had plenty of explanations up until now.
Why, FT? Why is that the law? Why is it OKAY for that to be the law?
[B]Why is it OKAY for priests to rape little boys, face absolutely no prison time and then go to heaven when they repent on their deathbed?[/B]
Why is it OKAY for you to harbor those people within your doors while your religion calls for the deaths of homosexuals?[/QUOTE]
Okay I'm gonna go ahead and poke at this one here.
Yeah sure they can escape the punishments of the mortal world, but at the point that they are before God, He's the final word on whether He believes they're "truly sorry" and have properly repented. Its not like I can go rape someone, say I'm sorry but not really mean it, and then get eternal paradise. If I'm not [I]actually[/I] sorry, then I'm fucked. The point is to encourage one to acknowledge that they "done fucked up", live with the consequences in the mortal world, come to grips with themselves that they done fucked up, realize it was fucked up for them to have gone and fucked up like that, and then (and ONLY THEN) when they've [I]fully[/I] repented for their sins in the mortal world... then after they die they are placed before God and He gets to see if they're actually sorry. If they are, then in theory their sins are forgiven and buhbam off to eternal paradise they go. If they're NOT actually sorry, then buhbye off to eternal torment because they obviously didn't learn their lesson.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;36364806]Since God doesn't actually exist, you don't have to be genuine. You just have to fool other people into thinking you are sorry and they'll forgive you because they think God forgave you.[/QUOTE]
I believe he exists, so I have to be genuine.
If you fool people into thinking that you are sorry and you have repented, then of course that is a sin and you will answer to the punishment.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;36364807]Okay I'm gonna go ahead and poke at this one here.
Yeah sure they can escape the punishments of the mortal world, but at the point that they are before God, He's the final word on whether He believes they're "truly sorry" and have properly repented. Its not like I can go rape someone, say I'm sorry but not really mean it, and then get eternal paradise. If I'm not [I]actually[/I] sorry, then I'm fucked. The point is to encourage one to acknowledge that they "done fucked up", live with the consequences in the mortal world, come to grips with themselves that they done fucked up, realize it was fucked up for them to have gone and fucked up like that, and then (and ONLY THEN) when they've [I]fully[/I] repented for their sins in the mortal world... then after they die they are placed before God and He gets to see if they're actually sorry. If they are, then in theory their sins are forgiven and buhbam off to eternal paradise they go. If they're NOT actually sorry, then buhbye off to eternal torment because they obviously didn't learn their lesson.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;36364806]Since God doesn't actually exist, you don't have to be genuine. You just have to fool other people into thinking you are sorry and they'll forgive you because they think God forgave you.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;36364806]God doesn't actually exist[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;36364825]Since God doesn't actually exist, you don't have to be genuine. You just have to fool other people into thinking you are sorry and they'll forgive you because they think God forgave you.[/QUOTE]
Ohboy the atheist is telling me I'm wrong I better accept it as fact.
Dude the system operates on the belief that God exists. It was founded on that, it exists because of that, its followed because of that. I don't see how your post there is even relevant.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;36364807]Okay I'm gonna go ahead and poke at this one here.
Yeah sure they can escape the punishments of the mortal world, but at the point that they are before God, He's the final word on whether He believes they're "truly sorry" and have properly repented. Its not like I can go rape someone, say I'm sorry but not really mean it, and then get eternal paradise. If I'm not [I]actually[/I] sorry, then I'm fucked. The point is to encourage one to acknowledge that they "done fucked up", live with the consequences in the mortal world, come to grips with themselves that they done fucked up, realize it was fucked up for them to have gone and fucked up like that, and then (and ONLY THEN) when they've [I]fully[/I] repented for their sins in the mortal world... then after they die they are placed before God and He gets to see if they're actually sorry. If they are, then in theory their sins are forgiven and buhbam off to eternal paradise they go. If they're NOT actually sorry, then buhbye off to eternal torment because they obviously didn't learn their lesson.[/QUOTE]
I still do not understand how being truly and genuinely sorry can absolve you of your crimes. Is the regret and burden you're supposed to feel be your punishment? You only have to regret your actions and live with yourself for abusing and possibly scarring a little boy?
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;36364825][/QUOTE]
Stop, ever play devils advocate? For the sake of the argument, we are all accepting the condition that God exists. Otherwise, if you think he doesn't, then why are you in here debating with us in the first place?
[QUOTE=Fetret;36364850]I still do not understand how being truly and genuinely sorry can absolve you of your crimes. Is the regret and burden you're supposed to feel be your punishment? You only have to regret your actions and live with yourself for abusing and possibly scarring a little boy?[/QUOTE]
No, the punishment you get is at the hands of God and the people who hold you accountable.
Whether it be jail time, excommunication, or even death.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;36364840]Ohboy the atheist is telling me I'm wrong I better accept it as fact.
Dude the system operates on the belief that God exists. It was founded on that, it exists because of that, its followed because of that. I don't see how your post there is even relevant.[/QUOTE]
It opens you up to charlatan priests who molest children and can get away with it because they fool the court of public opinion into thinking God forgives them.
[QUOTE=Fetret;36364850]I still do not understand how being truly and genuinely sorry can absolve you of your crimes. Is the regret and burden you're supposed to feel be your punishment? You only have to regret your actions and live with yourself for abusing and possibly scarring a little boy?[/QUOTE]
That's for God to decide. And no, if you aren't repentant then you will suffer for eternity in hell. That's the punishment that they would get.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;36364869]It opens you up to charlatan priests who molest children and can get away with it because they fool the court of public opinion into thinking God forgives them.[/QUOTE]
That is the court's problem if they get off scot-free.
Only God knows if they truly feel repentant or not.
Either way they get punished one way or another.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;36364869]It opens you up to charlatan priests who molest children and can get away with it because they fool the court of public opinion into thinking God forgives them.[/QUOTE]
Well, some do unfortunately. But we don't really know what they feel. Some people can look really sorry for what they've done but have it all just be an act. You don't really know unless you were to get in their head...
[QUOTE=Fetret;36364850]I still do not understand how being truly and genuinely sorry can absolve you of your crimes. Is the regret and burden you're supposed to feel be your punishment? You only have to regret your actions and live with yourself for abusing and possibly scarring a little boy?[/QUOTE]
There's not a damn thing you can do for that kid after you screwed him up, and that is supposed to hit you [I]hard.[/I] Its supposed to [I]suck.[/I] Utterly and totally and completely [I]suck.[/I] Its supposed to screw over your mortal life and hang over your head like a fine edged axe to always remind you that you [I]seriously[/I] fucked up. Its supposed to make you not do it again, to make you try and fix it, to do [I]anything you can[/I] to convince Management that you've fully repented. Then when you die they get to see if you were serious.
[QUOTE=F T;36364800]Yes it is, but I myself do not call for the death of gays. Do not confuse me with WBC.
Even if they call for death of homosexuals, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."[/QUOTE]
But you believe they deserve an eternity of painful, endless torture.
How is that better?
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364913]But you believe they deserve an eternity of painful, endless torture.[/QUOTE]
No I do not so long as they are repentant and forgiven by God.
But what do you think they deserve?
So yeah, in reality, none of us, not even the Christians know we are really saved. Not even I know if I'm actually as sorry as I can be. I've done so many bad things and kept doing them over and over. I still struggle with them and want to get rid of them. But I guess if I really wanted to stop doing what I've been doing then they would have stopped all together.
So me, I could face the same fate as a child molester. I wont know until I die. I can only keep trying to be a better person and fit the mold that Jesus set.
[QUOTE=F T;36364817]I believe he exists, so I have to be genuine.
If you fool people into thinking that you are sorry and you have repented, then of course that is a sin and you will answer to the punishment.[/QUOTE]
Except that there's no way to prove you're genuine.
So then why does the Pope, [I]your leader,[/I] shield rapists from investigation?
[QUOTE=F T;36364922]No I do not so long as they are repentant and forgiven by God.
But what do you think they deserve?[/QUOTE]
Some god damn respect and dignity.
Not being thrown in hell for not being sorry about who they are.
[QUOTE=F T;36364922]No I do not so long as they are repentant and forgiven by God.[/quote]
And you yourself said the only way to repent is through action, the "laws of god written in their heart," aka not-being-gay.
[quote]But what do you think they deserve?[/QUOTE]
Rights. Eternal salvation for being loving, compassionate human beings who have done no harm, if I believed in the sort of thing.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364928]Except that there's no way to prove you're genuine.
So then why does the Pope, [I]your leader,[/I] shield rapists from investigation?[/QUOTE]
Because that is wrong. Really wrong. I don't really know what his thinking was behind that but I really didn't like him doing that. It was so terribly bad. But like I said, I don't really know about his salvation either. None of us, unless we were Jesus, are guaranteed eternal life. Not even the Pope.
[QUOTE=Mrs. Moon;36364935]Because that is wrong. Really wrong. I don't really know what his thinking was behind that but I really didn't like him doing that. It was so terribly bad. But like I said, I don't really know about his salvation either. None of us, unless we were Jesus, are guaranteed eternal life. Not even the Pope.[/QUOTE]
Then why is he your [catholics] leader?
Why do you listen to anything he has to say?
If he is as human as the rest of us, wouldn't his actions mean he should be cast from his literally golden throne? You mistrust him, and yet you are content to let him persist. Why?
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364928]Except that there's no way to prove you're genuine.
So then why does the Pope, [I]your leader,[/I] shield rapists from investigation?[/QUOTE]
Because it would look terrible on their part if it already doesn't.
But that is his decision, it's not like we haven't had many bad popes before.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36364944]Then why is he your [catholics] leader?
Why do you listen to anything he has to say?
If he is as human as the rest of us, wouldn't his actions mean he should be cast from his literally golden throne? You mistrust him, and yet you are content to let him persist. Why?[/QUOTE]
Because what can we do about it? He isn't perfect, but neither are we.
[QUOTE=F T;36364957]Because it would look terrible on their part if it already doesn't.
But that is his decision, it's not like we haven't had many bad popes before.[/QUOTE]
But he's [I]your[/I] Holy Pope. He is, in your words, [I]your leader.[/I] He is tax-exempt because of it, and yet now you admit he is not infallible? If he is just as human as the rest of us, why does he get special privileges? Why does he deserve a golden throne? Why do you give any more credence to what he says than I, another fellow human being, as human and fallible as he?
Why is he your leader?
I'm not even 100% sure on the homosexuality issue. There are a lot of new theories going around about that. Like it is actually not an issue any more. Jesus' teachings have been interpreted differently over the years which is a blatant issue that people like to call out on Christians in general. however, a lot of people don't agree and think it is too radical of an idea to accept on a whim. We'll see in the coming years which direction the general opinion goes. Remember, at a time Christians were racists. I have no idea what the reasoning is behind being racist and Christian but it happened somehow. Maybe this will end up being the same thing.
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