• House Committee Votes to Require Women to Register for Draft
    297 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zeke129;50216548]Why not just get rid of it for everyone[/QUOTE] Because if and when a time comes thats so dire that they start the draft, you will fight for your country whether you like it or not.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50216676][I]Some folks are born, with star-spangled eyes...[/I][/QUOTE] WOW GREAT POINT 10/10. :terrists:
the thought of throwing away the only life i have because of some arbitrary definition of honor doesn't really sit well with me
[QUOTE=Richoxen;50216670]Could we all agree that the draft is acceptable as a defensive measure at least?[/QUOTE] Sure, I guess. If someone's attacking the coast of California and there's absolutely no one else to help, I guess I'd feel more obligated to help innocent people. However, we've put ourselves in our last wars over stupid fucking shit. The Vietnam War? The Iraq War? The War on Terror? Fuck that. It all boils down to business, governmental sloppiness, and the United States wanting to be high and mighty. It's all ego and money.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50216665]This is another problem: I wouldn't die for most of society. I'm not very fond of most of society, who currently votes for terrible people and holds regressive views. I wouldn't die for people that are currently invested in taking away my rights. The people who are too old to be drafted are generally the people who are clinging on to bad values.[/QUOTE] Oh jeez this post.
[QUOTE=Richoxen;50216604]That was a marine study, not an army study. If I can find one for the army though I'd return to my previous position. It's most likely similar simply due to physiology but I'm not going to argue out of my ass.[/QUOTE] Youre not wrong, there have been a few articles that have given similar findings. If i could find em id argue, but from what i remember is that women do on average preform worse off physicallt in the military
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50216685]Thanks man, I wasn't sure if you would understand it because it was a bit complex, but I'm glad you could look past the surface and see into the symbolism between the song and what you're talking about![/QUOTE] I don't even know what that song is.
[QUOTE=Richoxen;50216623]Why not, It's a good safety measure just in case. Does it hurt anyone to keep it around?[/QUOTE] If you didn't sign by 26 you would not be eligible for for any federal jobs or education assistance, and male immigrants could not be core naturalized citizens, so yeah it can hurt.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;50216689]Oh jeez this post.[/QUOTE] I don't see what's wrong with what I said. There's a lot of people who are hateful of the lower class, wanting to mix religion in with politics, do not care for freedom and privacy, and enable businesses. It's generally at a varying degree, but I'd like to spend my life away from these people, let alone dying for them. I also think these people are responsible for the politicians that push for war and fearmonger over religion and escalate problems with our enemies.
[QUOTE=Sableye;50216605]Not all combat roles have the same requirements as the marines Also the training process has been optimized for men, it's going to take a while before they get the regiments, workouts and other stuff optimized for women too[/QUOTE] There shouldnt be any 'optimization'. Our standards are there for a reason.
[QUOTE=Thlis;50216585]But the point he made was irrelevant. If selection is not biased toward either gender being allowed at a higher/lower standard then troops should be of relatively equal skill. But the study showed the groups performed differently. Spare the edge, you should be fucking grateful you live in one of the most civilized countries around.[/QUOTE] -Snip, useless meme- Just because our country is "one of the most civilized countries around", doesn't make his point any less true. You're being completely relative, with renders your point running on subjectivity rather than fact. If the best country on earth is still a shit hole (in an individuals opinion), are you not allowed to disagree with its authority?
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50216547]And you don't think that's a generalization, or perhaps the result of women not being in combat for as long as men? It's like if I let a few black people into combat and they all died - it would be unfair to say, "Black people just can't fight."[/QUOTE] most men have never been in combat before either though
[QUOTE=discofex;50216703]If you didn't sign by 26 you would not be eligible for for any federal jobs or education assistance, and male immigrants could not be core naturalized citizens, so yeah it can hurt.[/QUOTE] Sign at 18, i did it the day of like most people. It takes 2 seconds
Is this just going to be a repeat of last thread where people kept bickering back and forth Person A "I hate the draft" Person B "What if we get attacked" Person A "I'll just move to a different country" or Person A "I'd die for this country" Person B "Flag hugger" or Person A "This country isn't worth dying for" Person B "Anti-American" or my favorite Person A "The draft should be removed" Person B "Why?" Person A "It forces people to do something they don't want to do"
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50216712]Whaaaat? Okay for real, you NEED to hear this song. It is such a signifigant milestone song in American history and a real look into the vietnam war. [video=youtube;ec0XKhAHR5I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec0XKhAHR5I[/video] Like forget what we're arguing about for a moment, this song is an important part of american history. (shit quality video, apologies for that)[/QUOTE] OH! Duh! I've heard that song. It's great. [editline]28th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=RedBaronFlyer;50216719]Is this just going to be a repeat of last thread where people kept bickering back and forth Person A "I hate the draft" Person B "What if we get attacked" Person A "I'll just move to a different country" or Person A "I'd die for this country" Person B "Flag hugger" or Person A "This country isn't worth dying for" Person B "Anti-American" or my favorite Person A "The draft should be removed" Person B "Why?" Person A "It forces people to do something they don't want to do"[/QUOTE] tfw you get called a nationalist but really you're a New York separatist :cry: Feels bad man.
[QUOTE=Thlis;50216625]I don't know how much further I can simplify this. Lets say all troops have a value of 1-10 and only troops that have a value of over 5 are able to join the marines. Provided both men and women have the same requirement, they should be roughly the same in terms of value. It makes no sense then to say the study is irrelevant because the marines have a higher requirement. If anything the fact they have a requirement makes the study more controlled.[/QUOTE] To be completely honest, in modern warfare it actually doesn't matter too much who's infantry has a higher average muscle mass.
[QUOTE=AJ10017;50216551]That's the Marines though. Only the best of the best make it in the Marines, this is about the army, you don't get drafted into the Marine Corp[/QUOTE] "Only The Best"... Not to shit on my brothers, but you'd be surprised how "the best" really are.
Why should the sex even matter? Somebody please fill me in. If an individual passes the requirements to be drafted, regardless of sex, shouldn't they be drafted? I don't necessarily believe in the draft, but if one is enforced I imagine it should be equal in that regard [editline]27th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=UncleJimmema;50216743]"Only The Best"... Not to shit on my brothers, but you'd be surprised how "the best" really are.[/QUOTE] Elaborate.
[QUOTE=exhale77;50216744] the requirements to be drafted, [/QUOTE] You mean breathing and capable of holding a gun?
I was actually thinking about this on Monday, strangely enough. I was thinking that my lives is in the hands of Congress, who would only view me as a statistic. And I was thinking that if they're going to send people to die, they should have to watch it and really understand what they're doing by putting more troops out into the world to fight over oil, or interact with the communities that they just spent time bombing. Yeah, that probably sounds extreme, but I seriously don't think they care. Or if they do care, they care for the wrong reasons. They'll see me dying and use it as motivation to push harder, or something. But if every day they had to watch five minutes of death that they're causing every day, some of them wouldn't have the nerve to keep doing it, and the US would more quickly associate Congress as prolonging death. It would push them to stop the war as soon as possible, and actually do their fucking jobs as politicians for once. And so I hear that women may possibly join in, and in my head I'm thinking, "Well, there's more people that are going to die." It's really sickening. Sure, they're equal, but they're equal in risking death for ridiculous reasons.
Why when people think "Draft" they automatically jump to being forced to become a front line soldier? Most military roles today are non-combative.
I'm down with Wauterboi's viewpoint. I would not be cool with being shipped away to some country I've only read about to fight for the interests of shadowy motherfuckers I'll never meet. I would pick up a rifle as self-defense for me and my neighbors. Learn from history, Richoxen, look at Vietnam, The Middle East, the Bay of Pigs. Fuck being a part of those things that would put me in a flag-covered coffin or make me homeless because the same ungrateful fucks who would sent me to almost die would cut veteran benefits.
[QUOTE=Richoxen;50216754]You mean breathing and capable of holding a gun?[/QUOTE] Whatever the requirements are.
[QUOTE=axelord157;50216760]I'm down with Wauterboi's viewpoint. I would not be cool with being shipped away to some country I've only read about to fight for the interests of shadowy motherfuckers I'll never meet. I would pick up a rifle as self-defense for me and my neighbors. Learn from history, Richoxen, look at Vietnam, The Middle East, the Bay of Pigs. Fuck being a part of those things that would put me in a flag-covered coffin or make me homeless because the same ungrateful fucks who would sent me to almost die would cut veteran benefits.[/QUOTE] You seem to have forgotten a few conscription wars... Civil War, WWI, WWII
[QUOTE=Geikkamir;50216734]To be completely honest, in modern warfare it actually doesn't matter too much who's infantry has a higher average muscle mass.[/QUOTE] Did you even read these posts? It said combat effectiveness. It never said "muscle mass". [quote]"The Marines created a battalion of 100 female and 300 male volunteers. During the past year, they trained in North Carolina and California, taking part in realistic combat exercises. "All-male squads, the study found, performed better than mixed gender units across the board. The males were more accurate hitting targets, faster at climbing over obstacles, better at avoiding injuries. [B]"The Marine study says its main focus is maximum combat effectiveness, because it means fewer casualties. [/B]The Marines have not said whether the study's results will lead them to ask for a waiver that bars women from ground combat jobs.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Fayez;50216758]Why when people think "Draft" they automatically jump to being forced to become a front line soldier? Most military roles today are non-combative.[/QUOTE] The idea is that getting "drafted" into any position is against a person's will, regardless of if that role is combative or not. Many don't like the idea of being forced to do things, combative or not.
[QUOTE=Fayez;50216758]Why when people think "Draft" they automatically jump to being forced to become a front line soldier? Most military roles today are non-combative.[/QUOTE] Draft implies desperation, or at the very least that some people are going to fill the front line and people will wait in line to be at the front. It implies that the war can potentially end with everyone having their turn to die. It's basically mandating patriotism. It's not that I would die for my country, it's that I have to die for my country. It's an important distinction. No good country would have to force it's people to join the draft.
[QUOTE=exhale77;50216744]Why should the sex even matter? Somebody please fill me in. If an individual passes the requirements to be drafted, regardless of sex, shouldn't they be drafted? I don't necessarily believe in the draft, but if one is enforced I imagine it should be equal in that regard [editline]27th April 2016[/editline] Elaborate.[/QUOTE] Bro there are some straight up retards and fat bodies in the Marine Corps (just like any branch). The Marine Corps is just really good at projecting that aura of "Eliteness" through recruiting ads and what not.
[QUOTE=Fayez;50216758]Why when people think "Draft" they automatically jump to being forced to become a front line soldier? Most military roles today are non-combative.[/QUOTE] Exactly. I'd totally go for a non combat role. Hell, the Army Core of Engineers is really big here and I'd totally have a job there if I had existing security clearance.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50216778]Bro there are some straight up retards and fat bodies in the Marine Corps (just like any branch). The Marine Corps is just really good at projecting that aura of "Eliteness" through recruiting ads and what not.[/QUOTE] Interesting, I was unaware that the requirements were (relatively) low.
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