• House Committee Votes to Require Women to Register for Draft
    297 replies, posted
ur posts are really somethin
And why do you guys keep referring to the wars in the Middle East? The draft literally hasn't been used since Vietnam. [QUOTE]In 1973, the draft ended and the U.S. converted to an all-volunteer military. According to the Selective Service System, “the registration requirement was suspended in April 1975. It was resumed again in 1980 by President Carter in response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.[/QUOTE] And you can bet your ass that after Vietnam the government wouldn't reinstate the draft unless something similar to Pearl Harbor happens.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50216840]What about not being any sort of killing machine[/QUOTE] I understand your viewpoints but I also understand its hard for your average civilian to understand Marine Corps/Navy culture in general. I'm not advocating needlessly slaughtering innocent people but more so exterminating enemy combatants in a highly effective manner.
[QUOTE=Richoxen;50216843]Unless they were on their last leg. [editline]28th April 2016[/editline] We will make a martyr of you. "Today an enemy agent infiltrated one of our bases and murdered our friend Pascall. We must harness the rage generated from his death and foster it into purpose by serving these United States."[/QUOTE] This is pretty disgusting. At what point do you look at yourself and not look bloodthirsty? Even your friend around you dying is a good thing? Great.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50216862]This is pretty disgusting. At what point do you look at yourself and not look bloodthirsty? Even your friend around you dying is a good thing? Great.[/QUOTE] A-are you... are you serious?
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50216861]I understand your viewpoints but I also understand its hard for your average civilian to understand Marine Corps/Navy culture in general. I'm not advocating needlessly slaughtering innocent people but more so exterminating enemy combatants in a highly effective manner.[/QUOTE] But I'm weaker and worse than you because I wouldn't kill another person for this country, and wouldn't be able to last? Just trying to clarify so I know what I am. [editline]27th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Richoxen;50216864]A-are you... are you serious?[/QUOTE] Are you? Yeah, I get it, you're making a joke about someone else dying. But with how you've been talking all thread, it doesn't sound very far from the truth. You're embracing dying for your country, you know, [I]being a martyr[/I], and that people who aren't willing to be martyrs are heathens and don't deserve to live here. So when you're making a joke about a person (who is really cool and posts in the depression thread for anxiety) dying, I think you've crossed a line. It's just fucked up.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50216867]But I'm weaker and worse than you because I wouldn't kill another person for this country, and wouldn't be able to last? Just trying to clarify so I know what I am.[/QUOTE] If you won't kill a foreign invader who's come to steal your lives than yes. If you won't kill a brown guy in a desert 6000 miles away then meh. It's ight G.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50216867]But I'm weaker and worse than you because I wouldn't kill another person for this country, and wouldn't be able to last? Just trying to clarify so I know what I am.[/QUOTE] You wouldn't have to be in a combat position to serve, there's plenty of jobs not directly related to combat. I'm in one of those jobs right now matter of fact. But I mean, in a nutshell yeah I guess so. That's my personal opinion, I value duty to country and selfless service (that sounds really motivated) so to me you're a weaker person.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50216867]But I'm weaker and worse than you because I wouldn't kill another person for this country, and wouldn't be able to last? Just trying to clarify so I know what I am. [editline]27th April 2016[/editline] Are you? Yeah, I get it, you're making a joke about someone else dying. But with how you've been talking all thread, it doesn't sound very far from the truth. You're embracing dying for your country, you know, [I]being a martyr[/I], and that people who aren't willing to be martyrs are heathens and don't deserve to live here. So when you're making a joke about a person (who is really cool and posts in the depression thread for anxiety) dying, I think you've crossed a line. It's just fucked up.[/QUOTE] I don't see how that's my problem or why I would know that he posts in the depression thread or why that's even relevant. I think he's a big boy who can go into his safe space if he's having a bad day alright. Let him handle himself. You're being weirdly clingy and defensive.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50216874]That's my personal opinion, I value duty to country and selfless service (that sounds really motivated)[/quote] i understand this [quote]so to me you're a weaker person.[/QUOTE] but i can't see this as anything other than you going out of your way to feel superior to others
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50216882]i understand this but i can't see this as anything other than you going out of your way to feel superior to others[/QUOTE] He asked.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;50216881]“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person, who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.” One of my favorite quotes.[/QUOTE] same with this [QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50216887]He asked.[/QUOTE] oh
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50216874]You wouldn't have to be in a combat position to serve, there's plenty of jobs not directly related to combat. I'm in one of those jobs right now matter of fact. But I mean, in a nutshell yeah I guess so. That's my personal opinion, I value duty to country and selfless service (that sounds really motivated) so to me you're a weaker person.[/QUOTE] Didn't want to get involved, but I'm interested enough to ask you this: What is your definition of "weakness" in this context? How is wauterboi a "weaker" person than you? Again, purely out of curiosity.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50216874]You wouldn't have to be in a combat position to serve, there's plenty of jobs not directly related to combat. I'm in one of those jobs right now matter of fact. But I mean, in a nutshell yeah I guess so. That's my personal opinion, I value duty to country and selfless service (that sounds really motivated) so to me you're a weaker person.[/QUOTE] I value duty to a country worth fighting for and selfless service to protect the people I care about. I don't value duty to the United States and don't value my service for Congress as being particularly legendary or anything. I'd make personal sacrifices when they make sense. A draft does not inherently make sense. The draft for the Vietnam War did not make sense. You judging me based on my ability to look at situations and say "fuck that" is ridiculous. The military is not inherently good. The country is not inherently good. Respect is earned.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50216892]I don't understand why people should feel so emotionally attached to a country.[/QUOTE] because it directly impacts who you are as a person, if you grew up in a different time in a different place you'd be a different person. So by extension your country is a part of who you are. Post # 666 btw.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50216902]Well it made me a very bitter person toward media and politics, so you're right in that regard. But my friends, family, and local community have had a much greater impact on me than the overall country.[/QUOTE] It warrants that you'd want to protect them than doesn't it?
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50216892]I don't understand why people should feel so emotionally attached to a country.[/QUOTE] Because it's the land where people are born, raised, educated, have families It's a place of belonging and community on a large scale, it's more than a pile of dirt. I on the other hand don't understand how people could feel no emotional attachment to their country.
From what I can understand, and this is not me trying to judge other soldiers, soldiers have to be broken down to be built back up again so that they can have the mindset that makes them useful to the military. In being built back up, a lot of soldiers are convinced that they are better than their former selves, which is totally cool and generally true, but also that they are better than civilians. When he came back, he had a little bit of an ego going on until he normalized back into society and came a little more down to earth. The thing is, not all soldiers do. I'm not suggesting that InvaderNouga is doing this, or that even the concept of a soldier being better than a civilian is completely false. But to have the mindset that I am literally worse over a few aspects of my personality is pretty ridiculous and might entail the need for a reality check. Soldiers are not inherently better than civilians.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;50216881]“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person, who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.” One of my favorite quotes.[/QUOTE] Even if that's a famous quote that's well written, it's application now is none. Why should a person fight and die in foreign countries or wars, for the sake of a nation? Contextless, that's a question you no doubt have a reflexive answer to as you have already answered it. But in the context of a nation that doesn't really fight for you, care for you, care for your loved ones, has not improved it's representation for you at any point, is it the same answer, so quickly? I would fight and die to defend my country, but that's it. You ask me to leave to fight them elsewhere? No. I will defend it. That's it. And for all the judgement passed by yourself, Invader, Richoxen, it means nothing to anyone but yourselves. It's petty to see it dispensed so readily and with so much pride.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50216917]That happens in other places too[/QUOTE] Yeah but it happens to you in this place.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50216908]From what I can understand, and this is not me trying to judge other soldiers, soldiers have to be broken down to be built back up again so that they can have the mindset that makes them useful to the military. In being built back up, a lot of soldiers are convinced that they are better than their former selves, which is totally cool and generally true, but also that they are better than civilians. When he came back, he had a little bit of an ego going on until he normalized back into society and came a little more down to earth. The thing is, not all soldiers do. I'm not suggesting that InvaderNouga is doing this, or that even the concept of a soldier being better than a civilian is completely false. But to have the mindset that I am literally worse over a few aspects of my personality is pretty ridiculous and might entail the need for a reality check. Soldiers are not inherently better than civilians.[/QUOTE] Hey, I said you're weaker. I mean physically and mentally weaker by that, I'm sure you can be some great intellectual and I'm almost positive you're a lot smarter than me (not being facetious here). So you can be stronger in your own regards/Other aspects. If you know what I mean.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50216907]Because it's the land where people are born, raised, educated, have facilities. It's a place of belonging and community on a large scale, it's more than a pile of dirt. I on the other hand don't understand how people could feel no emotional attachment to their country.[/QUOTE] On the contrary, I feel a lot of hurt for my community. I see a lot of oppression. I see a lot of poverty. I see friends being deported. I see the rich getting away without paying taxes. I see corruption in the government. I see the United States acting like complete assholes in other countries. I see kids being bullied and committing suicide. I see black incarceration rates going through the roof. I see mental health continuing to be neglected. So here you are, saying, "Pick yourself up and go serve in the military!" For what? Why? What the fuck is out there for me to do? Shoot people? Take care of the people who were just shot? Move boxes around? I don't want to do any of that shit, and that shit isn't legendary. And so you say, "Don't you love your country?" And to that I say yes, and that's why it hurts so much more to see it fall apart and be abused. [B]EDIT:[/B] Do note that I don't mean to simplify the military as "move boxes around". I'm trying to accentuate that there is nothing in the military for me.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50216907]Because it's the land where people are born, raised, educated, have families It's a place of belonging and community on a large scale, it's more than a pile of dirt. I on the other hand don't understand how people could feel no emotional attachment to their country.[/QUOTE] And if you don't have a sense of belonging?
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50216907]Because it's the land where people are born, raised, educated, have families It's a place of belonging and community on a large scale, it's more than a pile of dirt. I on the other hand don't understand how people could feel no emotional attachment to their country.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure "society" is a better way to define all of the above, rather than some arbitrary lines we drew on a map 300 years ago.
Maybe, it's just you fundamentally not caring enough to try and understand people who don't have the same sense of belonging you do. A lot of people don't.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50216918]And for all the judgement passed by yourself, Invader, Richoxen, it means nothing to anyone but yourselves. It's petty to see it dispensed so readily and with so much pride.[/QUOTE] I agreed that it should be used as a defensive tool so I don't know what you're on about.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50216924]On the contrary, I feel a lot of hurt for my community. I see a lot of oppression. I see a lot of poverty. I see friends being deported. I see the rich getting away without paying taxes. I see corruption in the government. I see the United States acting like complete assholes in other countries. I see kids being bullied and committing suicide. I see black incarceration rates going through the roof. I see mental health continuing to be neglected. So here you are, saying, "Pick yourself up and go serve in the military!" For what? Why? What the fuck is out there for me to do? Shoot people? Take care of the people who were just shot? Move boxes around? I don't want to do any of that shit, and that shit isn't legendary. And so you say, "Don't you love your country?" And to that I say yes, and that's why it hurts so much more to see it fall apart and be abused.[/QUOTE] I don't hold it against you for not joining presently, it's not for everyone. I would hold it against you if you refused to help during a time of national crisis.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50216923]Hey, I said you're weaker. I mean physically and mentally weaker by that, I'm sure you can be some great intellectual and I'm almost positive you're a lot smarter than me (not being facetious here). So you can be stronger in your own regards/Other aspects. If you know what I mean.[/QUOTE] On what criteria are you gauging relative physical and/or mental "weakness"?
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;50216930] Perhaps before my experiences with the Air Force I would have agreed with your sentiment that the country is "not inherently good" but now I think that is an irrelevant point. I don't care whether or not our country is inherently good, it is MY country and I will stand by it.[/QUOTE] So the country shoots you in the foot(metaphorically) and you should stand by it? So you disown all former servicemen who have disowned your point of view because of their mistreatment? You don't understand the mindset of the vets from Vietnam?
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50216936]I don't hold it against you for not joining presently, it's not for everyone. I would hold it against you if you refused to help during a time of national crisis.[/QUOTE] Would you have held it against me if I refused the draft to join the Vietnam War?
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