• House Committee Votes to Require Women to Register for Draft
    297 replies, posted
i don't see the government as being the country, i see the government as being a facet of the country i currently heavily dislike and would like to see changed.
in fact i would say the government has turned more and more to be against the interest of the country. it sickens me that america has this cancerous tumor attached to it. if the government were better, i know our country would be better, but as it currently stands our government stands more for corporate interests than it does for america and her people.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50217059]Do they though?[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure, yes. Country : An area of land that is controlled by its own government : [U]the people who live in a country[/U] : an area or region that has a particular quality or feature or is known for a particular activity.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50217059]Do they though?[/QUOTE] Yes, no one likes the government. I like my country because I have freedom, most people are nice and it has some nice places. If someone threatens to take that away from me of course I'm going to help fight for those things instead of sitting on me ass in prison doing shit all to defend my way of life. That said, if the government tries to draft me to fight in some bullshit foreign war that only benefits the governments wallets or something. I'll resist cause fuck that noise.
I'm explicitly not including the government though, therefore it's not really fighting for my country. I'm fighting for people in it, not for what it the government stands for. I don't care about the Constitution. I don't care about Congress. I don't care about the president. I am empathetic towards ordinary citizens. I em empathetic towards children. I don't want them to die. And it doesn't have to be the US - I have no attachment to this country. If I lived in Norway and we were under attack, I would feel obligated to protect us.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50217104]I'm explicitly not including the government though, therefore it's not really fighting for my country. I'm fighting for people in it, not for what it the government stands for. I don't care about the Constitution. I don't care about Congress. I don't care about the president. I am empathetic towards ordinary citizens. I em empathetic towards children. I don't want them to die. And it doesn't have to be the US - I have no attachment to this country. If I lived in Norway and we were under attack, I would feel obligated to protect us.[/QUOTE] Well... We should probably just stick with the typical definitions for words so we dont have a 6 page argument about nothing again... [editline]28th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Darth Ninja;50217097]Yes, no one likes the government. I like my country because I have freedom, most people are nice and it has some nice places. If someone threatens to take that away from me of course I'm going to help fight for those things instead of sitting on me ass in prison doing shit all to defend my way of life. That said, if the government tries to draft me to fight in some bullshit foreign war that only benefits the governments wallets or something. I'll resist cause fuck that noise.[/QUOTE] This is fine with me.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;50216650]We're going the wrong way. We should abolish the draft altogether (though I know it hasn't been used since Viet Nam)[/QUOTE] Like someone said, a draft is something that's better to need and not have than need and not have. And with the amount of volunteers as-is, utiziling conscription is extremely unlikely. It would take something desperate and massive like Russian and China simultaneously going to war with the U.S. to make use of the draft. And even still, that's unlikely as modern warfare isn't what it used to be. [QUOTE=wauterboi;50216582]I refuse to die for the pigfuckers in Congress that sell the American population to the furnace that is capitalism and the upper class while people delude themselves into thinking that our government in any way stands for freedom, ethics, and its own citizens. America is not something to be proud of, and I am not represented, so why should I die for a group of people that are completely out of touch and view me as the "other" that can go fight for him? I'd only enter the fight if everyone in Congress joined me. Women being allowed to join only makes me feel better because they aren't treated as being weaker, but it doesn't detract from the problem that the draft poses. America doesn't deserve a draft.[/QUOTE] Holy shit, the edge
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50217124]Holy shit, the edge[/QUOTE] I apologize, I'm not very sparing with words when it comes to out-of-touch people that are in charge of whether or not I get sent to die. I'm cool with being edgy.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50217104]I'm explicitly not including the government though, therefore it's not really fighting for my country. I'm fighting for people in it, not for what it the government stands for. I don't care about the Constitution. I don't care about Congress. I don't care about the president. I am empathetic towards ordinary citizens. I em empathetic towards children. I don't want them to die. And it doesn't have to be the US - I have no attachment to this country. If I lived in Norway and we were under attack, I would feel obligated to protect us.[/QUOTE] Here's the thing though. If they ever brought the draft back, it would have to be in response to an existential threat to the Continental United States. Anything less would be political suicide. Signing up for Selective Service doesn't mean you're gonna die in a foreign jungle. Those days are over.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50217136]I apologize, I'm not very sparing with words when it comes to out-of-touch people that are in charge of whether or not I get sent to die.[/QUOTE] I guess you can just sit in prison and let other people die for you then.
[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;50216973]It's a much better option than conscription/mandatory service that many European nations still use. If called upon in a time of need, all of us will fight to defend our country. It is our duty.[/QUOTE] This is a very good point that hasn't been mentioned. In the U.S., you aren't even required to do mandatory military service. In other nations, it's a requirement. Yet you guys are complaining about the [i]possibility[/i] of having to do mandatory military service during a time of crisis.
[QUOTE=Darth Ninja;50217138]I guess you can just sit in prison and let other people die for you then.[/QUOTE] If they want to, they can join me. No one has to die for me just as I don't have to die for anyone. The idea that people have to die for others is disgusting as I stated before. It's the "forced" part. I'd rather do shit because I want to not because I have to. If we're under attack, I don't really feel forced to help. But if the government feels like it wants to throw people into a jungle again because of politics instead of actual impending danger, then fuck that.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50216996]No joke, I quite like Norway.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Pascall;50216999]finland sounds nice, personally. teachers get paid a bunch there.[/QUOTE] Both of these states practice conscription; your military service is compulsory. Permanent, guaranteed draft 24/7 whether you like it or not. It's gender-neutral too!!
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50217147]This is a very good point that hasn't been mentioned. In the U.S., you aren't even required to do mandatory military service. In other nations, it's a requirement. Yet you guys are complaining about the [i]possibility[/i] of having to do mandatory military service during a time of crisis.[/QUOTE] "These people are doing something worse, therefore we're good." [editline]27th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Chonch;50217151]Both of these states practice conscription; your military service is compulsory. Permanent, guaranteed draft 24/7 whether you like it or not. It's gender-neutral too!![/QUOTE] The point was that America is not the greatest and doesn't represent it's people. If Norway is better I don't have a problem fighting for Norway. It doesn't have to be Norway either - there are other countries I can live in fine. Are you just upset that I wouldn't die for America?
[QUOTE=Chonch;50217151]Both of these states practice conscription; your military service is compulsory. Permanent, guaranteed draft 24/7 whether you like it or not. It's gender-neutral too!![/QUOTE] I mean that's not why I would wanna leave the US lmao I was just sayin that not everyone who wants to leave for whatever reason can
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50217152]"These people are doing something worse, therefore we're good."[/QUOTE] So long as there are two people with differing opinions, conflict will occur. It is a fact of life. So it's better to be prepared for it than not. The U.S. doesn't need mandatory military service because there are enough defenses in place to not require it, unlike other countries. So stop whining about something that won't happen.
[QUOTE=Pascall;50217164]I mean that's not why I would wanna leave the US lmao I was just sayin that not everyone who wants to leave for whatever reason can[/QUOTE] In a similar line of thought; Hurricanes hit the southeast states of America with a high degree of frequency, its easy for people to tell folks to move to a place with lower risk of damage, but there are some things worth holding onto. Sure, people dislike the government of the US, but leaving friends and family behind isn't an easy proposition either.
And here's some food for thought: if you won't defend your country, then why should your country defend you?
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50217152]"These people are doing something worse, therefore we're good." [editline]27th April 2016[/editline] The point was that America is not the greatest and doesn't represent it's people. If Norway is better I don't have a problem fighting for Norway. It doesn't have to be Norway either - there are other countries I can live in fine. Are you just upset that I wouldn't die for America?[/QUOTE] i disagree with you, America [i]is[/i] the people, not the government. i feel that too many people have forgotten this and it has partially lead to issues we face today.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50217183]So long as there are two people with differing opinions, conflict will occur. It is a fact of life. So it's better to be prepared for it than not. The U.S. doesn't need mandatory military service because there are enough defenses in place to not require it, unlike other countries. So stop whining about something that won't happen.[/QUOTE] I don't disagree with you - everyone should prepare. I am prepared to make my own distinction on whether or not I should fight for whatever America wants me to fight for and make actions reflect on whether I think my inclusion in the military is necessary. [editline]27th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50217194]And here's some food for thought: if you won't defend your country, then why should your country defend you?[/QUOTE] They don't have to. My brother didn't join because anyone told him to. He didn't feel obligated. He wanted to.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50217194]And here's some food for thought: if you won't defend your country, then why should your country defend you?[/QUOTE] Even unsympathetic citizens pay taxes (in theory), which fund the military. The citizen in question pays the military to protect them. [QUOTE=wauterboi;50217202]They don't have to. My brother didn't join because anyone told him to. He didn't feel obligated. He wanted to.[/QUOTE] I think the question was more concerning the military as a whole rather than individual citizens.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50217202]They don't have to. My brother didn't join because anyone told him to. He didn't feel obligated. He wanted to.[/QUOTE] So if Russia/China declared war on the U.S., you're fine with America abandoning you to die to them?
[QUOTE=Chonch;50217211]Even unsympathetic citizens pay taxes (in theory), which fund the military. In short, I pay them to protect me. I think the question was more concerning the military as a whole rather than individual citizens.[/QUOTE] I am aware, but currently our soldiers are out because they chose to begin their military careers.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50217007]That's another point, I think. If I[B] feel I shouldn't be drafted, I'd be busy protesting and participating in programs to end the war or bring people back. I think that would be my idea of service.[/B] Sure, it's not as grueling as serving the military, but it's putting action to something I believe in.[/QUOTE] Holy shit dude you cannot really think this.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50217212]So if Russia/China declared war on the U.S., you're fine with America abandoning you to die to them?[/QUOTE] The entirety of the United States abandoning me sounds like a ridiculous analogy that doesn't work. I already said that should the United States be attacked on our soil, I would be protective of US citizens. Me going to fight whatever war on the other side of the planet is out of the question. I'm not doing it. [editline]27th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=EnlightenDead;50217266]Holy shit dude you cannot really think this.[/QUOTE] Sure do. I don't think fighting something like Vietnam was in anyway worthwhile to the United States. It was wasted lives. The protestors and media organizations did far more to make the war look terrible which in turn hurt political support for the war. What did more - the soldiers dying for capitalism or the activists protesting? Either way I don't really care. I'm not obligated to do anything. If I think fighting a war is a bad idea I won't. If I feel compelled for my country I will. It's up to the country to be worthwhile enough to die for, and we aren't there yet. Maybe we have been in the past, but we have work to do before this country becomes special again.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50217267]The entirety of the United States abandoning me sounds like a ridiculous analogy that doesn't work. I already said that should the United States be attacked on our soil, I would be protective of US citizens. Me going to fight whatever war on the other side of the planet is out of the question. I'm not doing it.[/QUOTE] You said yourself you have no obligation to the government, so the government has no obligation to you. The analogy is perfectly valid, demonstrating your hypocrisy for wanting to be defended while not wanting to help defend. And a draft would not be used to send people to Iraq. It would be used to get large-scale enemies (like Russia or China) off our soils and possibly push them back. Drafts are a defensive measure, and you're mixing up defense with offense. Notice that I've only been using the word "defend" and "defense"?
No but the way you're framing "My protesting to any war that has a draft is equatable to service in the military" has to be one of the most holier-than-thou attitudes that I've seen here. I mean, comon dude. Even when I want to agree with you on stuff you're going about it the wrong way. No one can take this: [QUOTE=wauterboi;50216582]I refuse to die for the pigfuckers in Congress that sell the American population to the furnace that is capitalism and the upper class while people delude themselves into thinking that our government in any way stands for freedom, ethics, and its own citizens[/quote] Seriously.
You keep saying that it can't happen, but it already has. Do you feel that Congress would die for its people? They're the ones that decide on war. I don't think they would. I won't fight because they said I'm supposed to. It's such an arbitrary following of the rules that could result in getting killed that I think is ridiculous. And have you see Congress? Would you consider them rational? They have the power of war. They have the power of a draft. I don't get why I have to sacrifice myself to a government that wouldn't do the same for me. It isn't America that is sacrificing themselves for me, it's my brother. It's not the government that is protecting me, it is my friends. That's the problem. I don't feel connected to the government enough to decide to join a war. If the war came to the coasts I would feel more compelled. I've already said this. But I'm dying for friends and family, not for anything that has to do with America. I'm telling you that I'm not an automaton. I don't follow orders. I have to be convinced to fight. That's really it. I'm not arbitrarily denying the draft. I'm denying the government the freedom to do whatever with my life.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50217311]You keep saying that it can't happen, but it already has. Do you feel that Congress would die for its people? They're the ones that decide on war. I don't think they would. I won't fight because they said I'm supposed to. It's such an arbitrary following of the rules that could result in getting killed that I think is ridiculous. And have you see Congress? Would you consider them rational? They have the power of war. They have the power of a draft. I don't get why I have to sacrifice myself to a government that wouldn't do the same for me. It isn't America that is sacrificing themselves for me, it's my brother. It's not the government that is protecting me, it is my friends. That's the problem. I don't feel connected to the government enough to decide to join a war. If the war came to the coasts I would feel more compelled. I've already said this. But I'm dying for friends and family, not for anything that has to do with America. I'm telling you that I'm not an automaton. I don't follow orders. I have to be convinced to fight. That's really it. I'm not arbitrarily denying the draft. I'm denying the government the freedom to do whatever with my life.[/QUOTE] I'm now convinced that you don't know what a draft means.
Stop giving wauterboi attention.
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