House Committee Votes to Require Women to Register for Draft
297 replies, posted
[QUOTE=download;50217331]Stop giving wauterboi attention.[/QUOTE]
Don't worry, I'm marking as unread and not returning.
[QUOTE=download;50217331]Stop giving wauterboi attention.[/QUOTE]
Seriously this thread is only 3-hours old and we already have 6-pages of wauterboi screaming about the morality drafts and people engaging in it.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50217326]I'm now convinced that you don't know what a draft means.[/QUOTE]
I don't know what is so difficult to comprehend about an emergency situation where your way of life is at threat, because that's the only situation a draft would ever be used in the US nowadays.
I think it's pretty clear wauterboi reviles in being contrarian.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50216608]Sounds good to me. I don't really feel at fault for the terrible foreign policy that the United States has. I don't want to be the clean up crew for the military's bad decisions what with the collateral damage through bombing and previously terrible treatment of foreigners in the Iraq war.[/QUOTE]
So lets recap.
You're fine with being selfish, greedy and all around asshole in situations that call for survival like war time eras to your own country men.
But you don't wanna fight for something that's selfish, greedy and all around assholes. You're basically one of them but because you say the 'right words' you somehow think you're above them.
You guys aren't going to change his opinion,leave him alone lol
What is so unreasonable about being opposed to being forced to fight a foreign enemy on foreign soil? Yeah, a draft is reserved for imminent threat to American soil -- oh, except for Vietnam, of course.
[editline]28th April 2016[/editline]
From what I can see you people are shitting on wauterboi for not supporting the draft in terms of being forced to fight when it's not necessary to protect American soil. He's said multiple times that he's okay with fighting when it's to protect American soil. So the fact that you're still shitting on him shows to me that you're okay with being forced to fight in a war that isn't necessary for our defense.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;50216671]Because if and when a time comes thats so dire that they start the draft, you will fight for your country whether you like it or not.[/QUOTE]
If the US was under such a threat that those methods were necessary, perhaps it would be a good idea to flee to another country.
[editline]28th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50217194]And here's some food for thought: if you won't defend your country, then why should your country defend you?[/QUOTE]
This isn't the government in general, but the police force:
According to one court ruling the police do not have a duty to defend specific people, but rather in general.
I think the specific quote was: "[t]he duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists."
[QUOTE=ASIC;50217569]If the US was under such a threat that those methods were necessary, perhaps it would be a good idea to flee to another country.[/QUOTE]
may be best for self preservation but it is cowardly and selfish if you are fully capable of fighting
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50217632]may be best for self preservation but it is cowardly and selfish if you are fully capable of fighting[/QUOTE]
It isn't necessarily cowardly. Not wanting to give up your life doesn't make you a coward.
It isn't necessarily selfish either. What if the US was the country in the wrong?
Is it selfish to not want to (potentially) give up your life for a cause you don't agree in?
I'd prefer the elimination of the draft route but this is at least better than the current situation. I'm not very patriotic or supportive of what the military gets up to, and I'm concerned about the draft being invoked for a shitty reason like Vietnam. But may as well be equal about it if we'll have it.
actually fuck I really need to register tbh before the government gets mad at me, so uh, thanks OP.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50216777]The scary part of a draft is that the people who determine what is worth drafting for are not the ones who get drafted.[/QUOTE]
Good idea, we should start to remove our government in a time of war, what a great well thought out idea.
[QUOTE=plunger435;50217688]Good idea, we should start to remove our government in a time of war, what a great well thought out idea.[/QUOTE]
He's not saying that.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;50217692]He's not saying that.[/QUOTE]
The government decides when we go to war; they are not the ones being drafted. Ether he wants them to be in the draft or he wants citizens to be the ones voting it, at which point those citizens voted in those congressmen so we're back to square one.
[QUOTE=ASIC;50217653]It isn't necessarily cowardly. Not wanting to give up your life doesn't make you a coward.[/quote]
being unwilling to fight for your way of life is inherently cowardly. you're running away to save your own skin instead of standing up and actually doing something to help protect that way of life and those who cannot fight. if you can fight, then it is only fair that you stay and hold the line until those who cannot are safe.
[quote]It isn't necessarily selfish either. What if the US was the country in the wrong?
Is it selfish to not want to (potentially) give up your life for a cause you don't agree in?[/QUOTE]
if the US is in the wrong during an invasion onto its soil, then you should fight against the US to right that wrong. by being in fighting shape and running away, you are putting yourself above other people, claiming your life is more important than the lives of others. you're allowing suffering to happen in order to live. if you find neither side to be in the right, then the only right thing to do woukd be to help out those who are unable to help themselves, either through helping with evacuation or providing aid. but if you are able but unwilling to do that and decide to run off somewhere else to let other people handle it, you are being selfish.
You don't take a year off when the war should be starting to have a nation wide vote on it, the entire point of congress is to have representative that can make those decisions in a timely manner and represent the majorities views.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50217704]being unwilling to fight for your way of life is inherently cowardly. you're running away to save your own skin instead of standing up and actually doing something to help protect that way of life and those who cannot fight. if you can fight, then it is only fair that you stay and hold the line until those who cannot are safe.[/QUOTE]
Some people don't want to fight, not because they are afraid of it, but because they dislike it (like pacifists) or are not willing to give up their life.
It is not inherently cowardly, your way of life may be against battle or just self interested.
There is a difference between cowardice and self-preservation.
One person fighting for their way of life in a battle isn't really going to make that much of a difference in the outcome of the fight.
Whereas if they were to flee they could possibly continue their lifestyle elsewhere.
If they truly wanted to make a difference in a war, there are other ways that would make a bigger difference than being a soldier.
Keep in mind that in a way this is on an individual scale.
If they had no other choice but to fight or die, then I think it would usually be cowardice.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50217704]if the US is in the wrong during an invasion onto its soil, then you should fight against the US to right that wrong. by being in fighting shape and running away, you are putting yourself above other people, claiming your life is more important than the lives of others. you're allowing suffering to happen in order to live. if you find neither side to be in the right, then the only right thing to do woukd be to help out those who are unable to help themselves, either through helping with evacuation or providing aid. but if you are able but unwilling to do that and decide to run off somewhere else to let other people handle it, you are being selfish.[/QUOTE]
Being unwilling to sacrifice your life for other does not mean that you are claiming (or you believe that) your life is more important than others, it means you are treating it as if it is.
That would usually be selfish.
[QUOTE=ASIC;50217569]This isn't the government in general, but the police force:
According to one court ruling the police do not have a duty to defend specific people, but rather in general.
I think the specific quote was: "[t]he duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists."[/QUOTE]
The topic is about international war, not criminals. Police can't help you against another nation's military.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50218331]The topic is about international war, not criminals. Police can't help you against another nation's military.[/QUOTE]
Actually, police are considered "paramilitary forces" under the Geneva Conventions. They have the same legal status as professional soldiers in a war and can legally fight.
[QUOTE=Richoxen;50216553]Then you don't deserve to live in it.
[/QUOTE]
A country that charges $3,000/month for expensive, required, life saving drugs (Gleevec) AFTER insurance has already covered 75%, where getting 4 wisdoms pulled cost $1500, where you have to weigh your injury vs the cost of an ambulance, where your vote doesn't mean anything other than to make overly patriotic people feel good about themselves, where money is the first second and fourth priority, and the third is how to maintain these as the top priorities, a country that spends more money on its military than the next 15 COMBINED and every candidate insists we must REBUILD the military, that already has 600+ bases in 60 countries, where schools expel students for merely eating a poptart into the shape of a gun
Totally worth dying for, right? Our country is the most backwards first world country there is, and it sure as fuck doesn't give a shit about you or me. Maybe in the 1950's when anyone with nearly any job could own a house, property, a car, and support a family, or the early 1800's, when money didn't dictate *everything*, including law. And even then, only if you were of certain ethnicity and gender.
But now? The stars on the flag should be changed to dollar signs, and if you have more than the flu you should buy a plane ticket to another country to get treated
This country is lucky it still has people willing to pay taxes, let alone people willing to die for it, and it's a joke to make people die for it in its current state, if you ask me. It's only a nice place to live IF you can afford it, and that IF is growing bigger and bigger every day
[QUOTE=download;50218362]Actually, police are considered "paramilitary forces" under the Geneva Conventions. They have the same legal status as professional soldiers in a war and can legally fight.[/QUOTE]
You're not gonna get draft into the police force
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50218385]You're not gonna get draft into the police force[/QUOTE]
In many places the police and the military are the same thing; France is an example of having a large part of its police force being military.
[QUOTE=download;50218407]In many places the police and the military are the same thing; France is an example of having a large part of its police force being military.[/QUOTE]
In the U.S., the police and military are separate entities. In fact, it is illegal for the military to police on American soil.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;50218377]A country that charges $3,000/month for expensive, required, life saving drugs (Gleevec) AFTER insurance has already covered 75%, where getting 4 wisdoms pulled cost $1500, where you have to weigh your injury vs the cost of an ambulance, [B]where your vote doesn't mean anything other than to make overly patriotic people feel good about themselves[/B], where money is the first second and fourth priority, and the third is how to maintain these as the top priorities, a[B] country that spends more money on its military than the next 15 COMBINED and every candidate insists we must REBUILD the military, that already has 600+ bases in 60 countries,[/B] where schools [B]expel students for merely eating a poptart into the shape of a gun[/B]
Totally worth dying for, right? Our country is the most backwards first world country there is, and it sure as fuck doesn't give a shit about you or me. [B]Maybe in the 1950's when anyone with nearly any job could own a house, property, a car, and support a family, or the early 1800's, when money didn't dictate *everything*, including law.[/B] And even then, only if you were of certain ethnicity and gender.
[B]But now? The stars on the flag should be changed to dollar signs, and if you have more than the flu you should buy a plane ticket to another country to get treated[/B]
This country is lucky it still has people willing to pay taxes, let alone people willing to die for it, and it's a joke to make people die for it in its current state, if you ask me. It's only a nice place to live IF you can afford it, and that IF is growing bigger and bigger every day[/QUOTE]
Your vote matters, it just turns out the majorities vote matters more. Surprise.
Sanders and Trump want to cut the military, Clinton hasn't said either way, Cruz is the only current candidate (Sans Kasich) who wants to 'rebuild the military', and he's not even first in his party.
Really? You're referencing an article from just a few weeks ago on sensationalist headlines and you already forgot it wasn't even an expulsion?
If you actually believe life in the 1800's was better than it is now in America I think you might be delusional.
I'm surprised all flu patients aren't filed into FEMA deathcamps then.
The amount of people who think being drafted means you have to join the military is astounding. You can become a conscientious objector and be placed in a non-combat military role (if you're just against being in combat), or be kept back home and "serve" peaceful alternatives like hospital work, farming, forestry, road construction, and similar occupations (for those who object to being part of the military in any capacity).
Get out of military service quick: move to Canada
[QUOTE=plunger435;50218471]Really? You're referencing an article from just a few weeks ago on sensationalist headlines and you already forgot it wasn't even an expulsion?[/QUOTE]
Maybe I missed a new thread, but the poptart gun incident was in 2013.
The latest news story I can find about it is from 2015.
[QUOTE=ASIC;50218262]Some people don't want to fight, not because they are afraid of it, but because they dislike it (like pacifists) or are not willing to give up their life.
It is not inherently cowardly, your way of life may be against battle or just self interested.
There is a difference between cowardice and self-preservation.
One person fighting for their way of life in a battle isn't really going to make that much of a difference in the outcome of the fight.
Whereas if they were to flee they could possibly continue their lifestyle elsewhere.
If they truly wanted to make a difference in a war, there are other ways that would make a bigger difference than being a soldier.
Keep in mind that in a way this is on an individual scale.
If they had no other choice but to fight or die, then I think it would usually be cowardice.[/quote]
if you are against the notion of fighting, then you do not need to directly fight, but you should stay and help the effort in some way, whether through production of supplies or filling in the gaps in services left by those who did choose to fight. running away is washing your hands of the situation, saying you would rather do nothing and let others do the work. sure, there may be more important things you could do to help with the war, but you sre fooling yourself if you think you can do that from a 3rd party country.
if your way of life is self-interest to the point where you'd leave your home and the home of your neighbors, family, and friends to be destroyed, then i would consider you a selfish coward. no matter what you think, you are not owed your life and there come times when you must step out of your comfort zone in order to defend it. yes, one person may not make a difference in a war, but if enough people put their own self-preservation above standing and fighting, then those who are incapable of fighting will suffer.
[quote]Being unwilling to sacrifice your life for other does not mean that you are claiming (or you believe that) your life is more important than others, it means you are treating it as if it is.
That would usually be selfish.[/QUOTE]
actions speak louder than words. if you take actions that put yourself above others, no matter what you may think you are demonstrating that you believe you are more important than everyone else.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;50218377]A country that charges $3,000/month for expensive, required, life saving drugs (Gleevec) AFTER insurance has already covered 75%, where getting 4 wisdoms pulled cost $1500, where you have to weigh your injury vs the cost of an ambulance, where your vote doesn't mean anything other than to make overly patriotic people feel good about themselves, where money is the first second and fourth priority, and the third is how to maintain these as the top priorities, a country that spends more money on its military than the next 15 COMBINED and every candidate insists we must REBUILD the military, that already has 600+ bases in 60 countries, where schools expel students for merely eating a poptart into the shape of a gun
Totally worth dying for, right? Our country is the most backwards first world country there is, and it sure as fuck doesn't give a shit about you or me. Maybe in the 1950's when anyone with nearly any job could own a house, property, a car, and support a family, or the early 1800's, when money didn't dictate *everything*, including law. And even then, only if you were of certain ethnicity and gender.
But now? The stars on the flag should be changed to dollar signs, and if you have more than the flu you should buy a plane ticket to another country to get treated
This country is lucky it still has people willing to pay taxes, let alone people willing to die for it, and it's a joke to make people die for it in its current state, if you ask me. It's only a nice place to live IF you can afford it, and that IF is growing bigger and bigger every day[/QUOTE]
This post could easily be a rant about capitalism, but reads like someone who hasnt actually spent time in a civics class or in the workforce
[QUOTE=plunger435;50217703]The government decides when we go to war; they are not the ones being drafted. Ether he wants them to be in the draft or he wants citizens to be the ones voting it, at which point those citizens voted in those congressmen so we're back to square one.[/QUOTE]
you can't decide every single congressman that gets voted in. ya, people aren't [I]completely[/I] powerless, but they're not responsible for every single political decision either
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