• Online sales tax set to pass in Senate
    172 replies, posted
[QUOTE=CommunistCookie;40555341]So you would rather no public schools or police? What about firemen, or safety regulations, or research, or any kind of public infrastructure?[/QUOTE] Humanity has gotten along just fine for tens of thousands of years without government mandatory public schooling, I think we can do without it, especially since its failing so hard. Semi-private and private schools in my opinion offer far better curriculum than any public school ever will. I went to a private school for a year during my grade schooling, and a semi-private high school for the last 3 years of my grade schooling. I learned more on those four years than at any other time in my grade schooling. And what about police? A disproportionate number of them are corrupt or act like they're above the law. I feel just as uncomfortable with them around as without them. Firemen? That's why volunteer fire departments exist, which are often community supported without tax vectors. Regulation? You mean nonsensical and dumb regulations drafted by a select few powerful people that are good for them and bad for everyone else? (NAFTA, SOPA, PIPA, ACTA, obamacare, etc.) And haha, since when does the government do meaningful research? The private sector is the source of nearly all R&D. We didn't get from horse and buggy to automobiles by government research. [QUOTE=Truckasaurus1;40555478]Sorry I didn't know I was talking to a fringe conspiracy theorist.[/QUOTE] Oh that guy has a different view than myself, he must be a looney :downs:
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;40555513]I'm the token right-winger on Facepunch. What I say is hardly indicative of Facepunch as a whole so shut your mouth.[/QUOTE] we got a tough guy here, watch out cookie, hes gonna punch you in the face! and bohb, you're paranoid as fuck dude [editline]7th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=bohb;40555568]Humanity has gotten along just fine for tens of thousands of years without government mandatory public schooling, I think we can do without it, especially since its failing so hard. Semi-private and private schools in my opinion offer far better curriculum than any public school ever will. I went to a private school for a year during my grade schooling, and a semi-private high school for the last 3 years of my grade schooling. I learned more on those four years than at any other time in my grade schooling. And what about police? A disproportionate number of them are corrupt or act like they're above the law. I feel just as uncomfortable with them around as without them. Firemen? That's why volunteer fire departments exist, which are often community supported without tax vectors. Regulation? You mean nonsensical and dumb regulations drafted by a select few powerful people that are good for them and bad for everyone else? (NAFTA, SOPA, PIPA, ACTA, obamacare, etc.) And haha, since when does the government do meaningful research? The private sector is the source of nearly all R&D. We didn't get from horse and buggy to automobiles by government research. Oh that guy has a different view than myself, he must be a looney :downs:[/QUOTE] omg, we finally have an anarcho-capitalist here, lmao
[QUOTE=bohb;40555568]Humanity has gotten along just fine for tens of thousands of years without government mandatory public schooling, I think we can do without it, especially since its failing so hard. Semi-private and private schools in my opinion offer far better curriculum than any public school ever will. I went to a private school for a year during my grade schooling, and a semi-private high school for the last 3 years of my grade schooling. I learned more on those four years than at any other time in my grade schooling. And what about police? A disproportionate number of them are corrupt or act like they're above the law. I feel just as uncomfortable with them around as without them. Firemen? That's why volunteer fire departments exist, which are often community supported without tax vectors. Regulation? You mean nonsensical and dumb regulations drafted by a select few powerful people that are good for them and bad for everyone else? (NAFTA, SOPA, PIPA, ACTA, obamacare, etc.) And haha, since when does the government do meaningful research? The private sector is the source of nearly all R&D. We didn't get from horse and buggy to automobiles by government research. Oh that guy has a different view than myself, he must be a looney :downs:[/QUOTE] This post just confirmed my statement in the eyes of anyone with a brain. Have a nice life.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;40555576]and bohb, you're paranoid as fuck dude[/QUOTE] And this is how income tax got started. Ignorant people sucking down the koolaide in gallons.
Watch out lolwutdude he might tell you to "wake up" soon!
[QUOTE=bohb;40555595]And this is how income tax got started. Ignorant people sucking down the koolaide in gallons.[/QUOTE] and you went to a private school too, you're so perfect lets make sure you're really perfect tho are you also an objectivist and wear fedoras
[QUOTE=CommunistCookie;40555558]Regardless, my point still stands looking at the rest of the thread.[/QUOTE] Yeah? Well next time actually take your time before you toss out a generalized accusation at someone.
[QUOTE=bohb;40555568]Humanity has gotten along just fine for tens of thousands of years without government mandatory public schooling, I think we can do without it, especially since its failing so hard. Semi-private and private schools in my opinion offer far better curriculum than any public school ever will. I went to a private school for a year during my grade schooling, and a semi-private high school for the last 3 years of my grade schooling. I learned more on those four years than at any other time in my grade schooling. And what about police? A disproportionate number of them are corrupt or act like they're above the law. I feel just as uncomfortable with them around as without them. Firemen? That's why volunteer fire departments exist, which are often community supported without tax vectors. Regulation? You mean nonsensical and dumb regulations drafted by a select few powerful people that are good for them and bad for everyone else? (NAFTA, SOPA, PIPA, ACTA, obamacare, etc.) And haha, since when does the government do meaningful research? The private sector is the source of nearly all R&D. We didn't get from horse and buggy to automobiles by government research. [/QUOTE] what [i]what[/i]
[QUOTE=Truckasaurus1;40555594]This post just confirmed my statement in the eyes of anyone with a brain. Have a nice life.[/QUOTE] Yes, it's confirmed that you label anyone a looney that doesn't agree with you. Your statement is invalid.
[QUOTE=bohb;40555658]Yes, it's confirmed that you label anyone a looney that doesn't agree with you. Your statement is invalid.[/QUOTE] a man chooses!!! a slave obeys!!! parasites!!! ron paul!
I'm not exactly a pro-government kind of person, but I reckon this kind of tax is reasonable. Here in Australia any product you buy has a 10% GST on it which is a reasonable amount (and when it was introduced it replaced so many different kinds of sales taxes). If you buy online you only pay GST if the order is above $1,000. The internet is a great way to start up as a sole trader as it can remove many of the barriers of entry into the market. For one you don't actually need a physical store where customers come through, you only need a website where customers can order your products. While this can be great for the economy it can also undercut physical retailers who have to apply GST to their products, letting online businesses get away with cheaper sales prices. If these online businesses are based offshore then that's going to present a cash circulation leakage for the domestic economy which isn't necessarily a good thing. It's concerning enough that retailers have been bitching and whining about it for years. Either you have no sales tax at all, or you apply a sales tax to all mediums of sale. Australia's GST I reckon is alright, but I would like to see studies done on what would happen to demand if a GST was applied for all online purchases, given that most products bought online are elastic in demand.
[QUOTE=bohb;40555215]Education what now? Safety what? Public schools have been a bad joke for decades. The only thing they teach you is carefully crafted and heavily censored topics to protect your young and delicate mind. They also *teach* you that you should always obey authority, even if authority is wrong and always accept the outcome. Wikipedia teaches you more about the world in a few hours of reading than 12 years of public school will ever teach you. I also don't really know what you mean by "safety". Are you talking about police? They don't do anything other than clean up after the fact. They don't prevent accidents, or murders, or rape or any other crime. Most of their time is spent chasing people after the fact.[/QUOTE] Apparently Wikipedia also taught you a mastery of platitudes no school will ever match.
[QUOTE=bohb;40554968]The only reason they're doing this is because retailers have been bitching and moaning for years that e-tailers are undercutting their bottom line. brick and mortar stores have been lobbying and spreading misinformation for years to try and get e-tailers to pay sales tax. Retailers seriously need to shut the hell up. Places like Worstbuy charge ridiculous markup (30-60%) to support their terribly outdated and inefficient business strategy. lol. Why would anyone in their right mind go out of their way to give extra support to an insolvent government run by retarded children that only care about their own agenda while the entire country suffers? We don't need to be giving them more money, as they've shown time and time again they completely lack the sense to manage it properly. I'm not going to have more of my tax dollars going into black hole slush funds that do nothing to benefit the country. And legislation like this is only the beginning of the iceberg. You give a politician a tool and they'll exploit the fuck out of it. First it's only collecting sales tax for the state, and before you know it, the federal government stacks another tax on top of it and then slowly starts increasing the rate of the tax to extract more and more income.[/QUOTE] If they markup by 30-60%, which is a fucking myth for the actual computers, for peripherals, hell yes they mark them up. But if it's a 30-60% markup, how is a 7% tax going to force you to shop locally? Also this works with local taxes per state, so saying "the federal government increases the rate of the tax".... They don't. And how is bestbuy terribly outdated? You can buy online from them you know. [QUOTE=bohb;40555568]Humanity has gotten along just fine for tens of thousands of years without government mandatory public schooling, I think we can do without it, especially since its failing so hard. Semi-private and private schools in my opinion offer far better curriculum than any public school ever will. I went to a private school for a year during my grade schooling, and a semi-private high school for the last 3 years of my grade schooling. I learned more on those four years than at any other time in my grade schooling. And what about police? A disproportionate number of them are corrupt or act like they're above the law. I feel just as uncomfortable with them around as without them. Firemen? That's why volunteer fire departments exist, which are often community supported without tax vectors. Regulation? You mean nonsensical and dumb regulations drafted by a select few powerful people that are good for them and bad for everyone else? (NAFTA, SOPA, PIPA, ACTA, obamacare, etc.) And haha, since when does the government do meaningful research? The private sector is the source of nearly all R&D. We didn't get from horse and buggy to automobiles by government research. Oh that guy has a different view than myself, he must be a looney :downs:[/QUOTE] Let's look about the past.... oh lets say 200 years since public schooling starting entering the first world, we've made a fuckton of progress in that time. I prefer we have both ways, private schools, and home schools. But public schools available for those without the time/money for either.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;40552624]I don't see this as a bad thing really. It seems really logical. Usually you guys are all up in arms about corporations not paying tax, But this is just closing a loophole.[/QUOTE]Creating a new law that handles things in a new way, and saying that you're 'closing a loophole' is a LIE, a manipulation and a tactic used for intentionally deceptive propaganda. [B][U]THERE IS NO LOOPHOLE THAT YOU SPEAK OF.[/U][/B] The law currently works the way it does because it is intentional.
Why is everybody angered by this? I deal with this all the time and I don't really mind giving 12% sales tax to my government, because I know it is going to be put to good use most of the time.
[QUOTE=CubeManv2;40552642]I support this, people are literally attempting to avoid taxes by buying online. Most cases it makes up in shipping, but a lot of sites with free shipping on top adds up. I bought from newegg before they charged me tax and I thought that was dumb they didn't charge me at that time.[/QUOTE] Except I live in a state that HAS NO SALES TAX. (Sales taxes are unfair, they are advantageous to the rich at the expense of the poor) This law could lead to people (like me) who shop online in states that choose not to have a sales tax, being charged a sales tax anyways. And we have no say in the matter, simply because the company we are buying from is in a state that does have a sales tax. That would kill a lot of business, and really anyone who thinks this is a good idea needs to smarten up and think again. [editline]6th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=ECrownofFire;40555429]If you live in Oregon (like I do) then absolutely nothing will change (if I understand it correctly).[/QUOTE] Don't be so sure. They've been debating over which state should get to decide the tax rate and which state gets the tax in interstate transactions. It may force us to either pay a full tax rate if the company is in a sales taxation state or a partial rate, which would only go to the state we are buying goods from.
[QUOTE=laserguided;40555741]Why is everybody angered by this? I deal with this all the time and I don't really mind giving 12% sales tax to my government, because I know it is going to be put to good use most of the time.[/QUOTE] Unless the government is supplying a service, I don't really see why they should levy a sales tax over the internet. It's hardly their domain. To me, it just seems like an another excuse for them to cheap people out of their money.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;40555801]Unless the government is supplying a service, I don't really see why they should levy a sales tax over the internet. It's hardly their domain. To me, it just seems like an another excuse for them to cheap people out of their money.[/QUOTE] If we got rid of social security, and most other social services, we still wouldn't even come CLOSE to having a balanced budget. And this is patching a loophole that's been for awhile
Over here, I'm looking at no state income tax, and about 9% sales tax (8% from WA, not sure where the last 1% is coming from). The sales tax part sucks, but WA seems to be pretty well off for it.
[QUOTE=lavacano;40555842]Over here, I'm looking at no state income tax, and about 9% sales tax (8% from WA, not sure where the last 1% is coming from). The sales tax part sucks, but WA seems to be pretty well off for it.[/QUOTE]You say this and then still everyone from WA drives to Oregon when they want to buy a car.
out of curiosity i couldn't find anywhere, how many percent is the tax for this anyway?
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;40555801]Unless the government is supplying a service, I don't really see why they should levy a sales tax over the internet. It's hardly their domain. To me, it just seems like an another excuse for them to cheap people out of their money.[/QUOTE] The governments (plural because even though this is a federal bill, it benefits state governments), as dysfunctional as they may be, provide a huge number of services.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;40555852]out of curiosity i couldn't find anywhere, how many percent is the tax for this anyway?[/QUOTE] It's different for each state
[QUOTE=Ybbats;40555851]You say this and then still everyone from WA drives to Oregon when they want to buy a car.[/QUOTE] well if you don't like it tell your tourism department to stop advertising the fact that Oregon has no sales tax seriously, in every commercial i hear about oregon they always mention it at least once. [editline]6th May 2013[/editline] really i don't even see why that matters all that much anyway, cheapskates will be cheapskates regardless of what the sales tax level is
[QUOTE=The golden;40553120]So what, they're supposed to leave one of the fastest growing markets completely untaxed? Sorry but federal/state services don't just pay for themselves with money pulled from asses. The online market is fuggin huge and is growing substantially every day. People are no longer buying taxable goods and are now buying goods which are tax-free.[/QUOTE] I'm not really against the tax, but when people throw up the "Well we need to pay for stuff somehow thing" I get so bothered. I'd rather we cut out the waste like the shitty military contracts and defense spending along with actually redoing health care. I know you're response will likely be, "Gotta start somewhere because that's not going to happen." And.... you're right. [editline]7th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=JayFeather1337;40554305]Again, if it was patching loopholes the rich used, facepunch would be all for it. But if it affects them? NOPE[/QUOTE] The thing is it affects our wealth level much more significantly than someone in a higher bracket. It's a less noticeable version of a food/drink tax which disproportionately affects poorer families since a larger percentage of their income goes to food. Versus someone who might spend 5-10% of their income on food. Fix both.
[QUOTE=Brt5470;40555974]I'm not really against the tax, but when people throw up the "Well we need to pay for stuff somehow thing" I get so bothered. I'd rather we cut out the waste like the shitty military contracts and defense spending along with actually redoing health care. I know you're response will likely be, "Gotta start somewhere because that's not going to happen." And.... you're right. [editline]7th May 2013[/editline] The thing is it affects our wealth level much more significantly than someone in a higher bracket. It's a less noticeable version of a food/drink tax which disproportionately affects poorer families since a larger percentage of their income goes to food. Versus someone who might spend 5-10% of their income on food. Fix both.[/QUOTE] I see your point, but it's still a bit hypocritical that many members on FP support closing loopholes, as long as it doesn't hit them.
Would this affect all online sales? Like if you bought something used from Amazon?
[QUOTE=Ybbats;40555766]Except I live in a state that HAS NO SALES TAX. (Sales taxes are unfair, they are advantageous to the rich at the expense of the poor) This law could lead to people (like me) who shop online in states that choose not to have a sales tax, being charged a sales tax anyways. And we have no say in the matter, simply because the company we are buying from is in a state that does have a sales tax. That would kill a lot of business, and really anyone who thinks this is a good idea needs to smarten up and think again.[/QUOTE] Read the articles, it just allows states to enforce their sales tax on online transactions to residents of the state. Translation: if your state doesn't have a sales tax, you won't be charged a sales tax for online purchases.
[QUOTE=JayFeather1337;40556043]I see your point, but it's still a bit hypocritical that many members on FP support closing loopholes, as long as it doesn't hit them.[/QUOTE] Oh definitely. At first I was like . "Aww bullshit" But then I realized how huge the market is and if it pulls business from other taxable transactions there needs to be a replacement. So I'm not against this small tax reform. I just think we shouldn't think of it as one or the other.
[I]"I dun' want pay taxes :saddowns:"[/I] Well shit son, you better move to a isolated island in the middle of the ocean then, cause otherwise you'd be a leech to those who do pay their taxes.
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