• French demand Crown Jewels from the English Queen for the 1499 murder of Edward Plantagenet
    60 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;36828157]what about all of the other historical treasures that we own?[/QUOTE] those too. they're just sort of gathering dust, they have to go
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36828389]those too. they're just sort of gathering dust, they have to go[/QUOTE] heh
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36828389]those too. they're just sort of gathering dust, they have to go[/QUOTE] I think we should smelt the gold for contact coating and use the gems for lasers and other assorted stuff.
Chaps, it's just a bit of good natured attention-getting you know? Perfectly healthy.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36828010]well they're just sort of lying around and taking up room[/QUOTE] So are you, off to France you go!
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36824976]seriously why do we even have crown jewels if they want them so bad I don't see why they can't have them[/QUOTE] Because they are made of fucking gold and have massive historical value?
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;36828157]what about all of the other historical treasures that we own?[/QUOTE] Britain took great care and effort in stealing all of its treasures from other nations I don't see why they should just be given away
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;36826681]It would also remove a major catalyst from Medieval Europe. As evil as the Catholic church was at times, you can't deny it had a major impact on history.[/QUOTE] Well, removing Christianity would have massive amounts of consequences, aside from hipsters having to find another thing to be edgy and ironic about. There most likely wouldn't [I]be[/I] a Medieval Europe due to the Catholic Church never having existed. Without Christianity there would have been a hell of a lot less civil strife in the Roman Empire, hell, they might even still be around. We could all have been making our daily sacrifices to Mars right about now. Just because you remove a religion doesn't mean everything is sunshine and rainbows. There could have been Jewish Crusade's or a Druidic Inquisition. Other religions could have risen and fallen. Christianity may have suppressed human scientific development for ~700 years, but a lack of Christianity does not mean we would be living in the Alpha Centauri system. But yeah, if I did have the opportunity to use a time machine designed only for murdering people who's opinions and legacies you don't agree with, one of them might be Jesus. The other would probably be Atilla the Hun, though, with the lack of Jesus, history would have been so radically changed that there would be no need to kill Atilla.
If this is real this is why George Washington told us to never get involved with people across the ocean.
Hogswash, if we got rid of a piece of our rich and varied heritage, we'd be the United States!
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;36828762]Christianity may have suppressed human scientific development for ~700 years[/QUOTE] Wrong. Many prominent people who advanced scientific knowledge were themselves clergymen, and often many had support from the church. The pope even enjoyed reading the latest progress that Roger Bacon did. (His work into optics, gunpowder and the such was quite groundbreaking) [QUOTE=DaysBefore;36828762]though, with the lack of Jesus, history would have been so radically changed that there would be no need to kill Atilla.[/QUOTE] Yeah, history would be different if Jesus actually existed.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;36828906]Wrong. Many prominent people who advanced scientific knowledge were themselves clergymen, and often many had support from the church. The pope even enjoyed reading the latest progress that Roger Bacon did. (His work into optics, gunpowder and the such was quite groundbreaking)[/QUOTE] And how common was this in the period between the end of Rome and the Renaissance, give or take a century?
For something that happened over 500 years ago? I wouldn't even deal with it diplomatically, I'd just send a note telling them to fuck off.
why would you kill people in the past motherfucking butterfly effect people my loved ones wouldnt exist god damn
Family Guy only perpetuated the "1000 years in the future myth", and those buying into it are kind of dumb.
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;36829002]And how common was this in the period between the end of Rome and the Renaissance, give or take a century?[/QUOTE] It was very common. The Renaissance only changed things by simply inventing the term, and then cast the past 1000 years as ones of ignorance. The Medieval Era brought us clocks, windmills, watermills, double entry bookkeeping, the blast furnace, gunpowder, lens, glasses, crossbows, etc. Also women had greater rights in the late middle ages than they did in the renaissance, and religious fanaticism only kicked off in the Renaissance too. Witch hunting also started at the end of the middle ages, as did things such as the belief you could sell your soul to the devil.
[Quote]Yeah, history would be different if Jesus actually existed.[/QUOTE] It's not the existence of Jesus (Although the majority of historians agree there was a Jesus), it's the belief in the existence of Jesus. If you removed the belief in it's early stages, say by killing one of the main apostles or the infant in it's crib, there would be no religion to follow it. It's like Buddhism if Buddha never preached anything, it would not exist.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;36829162] The Medieval Era brought us clocks, windmills, watermills, double entry bookkeeping, the blast furnace, gunpowder, lens, glasses, crossbows, etc.[/QUOTE] Lol what most of those advances not only predate the era, they didn't even originate in Medieval Europe the region.
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;36829235]I know. But just because some clergymen and one Pope were interested in scientific development doesn't mean it wasn't suppressed. Scientists, engineers, philosophers, they were all pretty absent from the common peoples, mainly because the clergy was the main place for most people to get an education. It's a lot harder for John the Swineherd to invent gunpowder, then Oxford educated Roger Bacon.[/QUOTE] What you are forgetting is that the clergy was pretty massive. By the mid 1100s, literacy was a real ambition for many in the countryside. (And within reach too) One in ten boys advanced to at least the lowest level in the clergy (Which required the ability to read Latin) The building of cathedrals themselves were testament to the advance in knowledge. Many were built beyond their ability to make them safe, and they often collapsed as men figured out the best way to build bigger and better. The Middle Ages were a hotbed of experimentation and improvement. [QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;36829326]Lol what most of those advances not only predate the era, they didn't even originate in Medieval Europe the region.[/QUOTE] Wrong. The Medieval Era brought us clocks, windmills, watermills, double entry bookkeeping, the blast furnace, gunpowder, lens, glasses, crossbows, etc. Clocks were invented independently in Europe, and by 1400 were extremely common in towns. Windmills and watermills were brought over from earlier eras partly, but they had a massive amount of improvement to them. Mills became extremely common throughout Medieval Europe. Double Entry bookkeeping was developed in Italy in the Middle ages too. The Blast furnace was introduced in Germany and Sweden quite early too. Gunpowder was brought to the west, sure, but the Europeans were just as inventive with it as the Chinese were. Glasses were also invented in Italy. Crossbows were invented beforehand, but they were improved quite a fair bit. By the end of the Medieval period, you had winding ones with steel bows and strings that shot a kilometre or so. Just because other places invented things beforehand, doesn't discount that their independent discovery elsewhere.
Fuck France, give it to Obama for the American Revolution. We're [I]still[/I] hurting from that.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;36829413]What you are forgetting is that the clergy was pretty massive.[/QUOTE] Yeah I know, it sounded wrong even as I typed it. Sorry.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;36829413] Just because other places invented things beforehand, doesn't discount that their independent discovery elsewhere.[/QUOTE] Yeah that would be true if they were actually discovered and it didn't simply take a millennium for ideas to get there and catch on. Pretty much all of these things you said were either slightly varied by which materials they used or for what application they used the concept. Not only that but gunpowder didn't even see major western advancements until the Renaissance and double entry bookkeeping started in 14th century Italy, in other words the Renaissance. Really this doesn't matter because Christianity didn't suppress scientific advancement for 700 years, it's still suppressing it today along with every other religion.
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;36832181] Not only that but gunpowder didn't even see major western advancements until the Renaissance and double entry bookkeeping started in 14th century Italy, in other words the Renaissance.[/QUOTE] The renaissance didn't speed up the rate of innovation at all. It was a conservative movement looking back to the days of the Romans, and starting the myth that the Medieval era was one of ignorance. The Renaissance invented the "Dark Ages" myth in order to justify its own existence. [QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;36832181]Really this doesn't matter because Christianity didn't suppress scientific advancement for 700 years, it's still suppressing it today along with every other religion.[/QUOTE] Nope. :3
Je suis Français et je trouve ça très drôle.
[QUOTE=geoface;36826570]mean that science won't be persecuted and hidden away for about 1000 years, meaning we'll be 1000 years ahead of our time in technology.[/QUOTE] Simply No. Science was never actively suppressed by the Church until the 1800s, and that's only because they believed that science was "waging war" with religion. That, in turn, was due to Darwin's concept of evolution contradicting with religious creationism. Then, scientific supporters tried to make up (either out of thin air or from errors and misconceptions) that religious institutions had suppressed scientific thought for years with such classics as [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_myth]the myth that people in Medieval times thought the earth was flat[/url]. Now we live in a world where religion does try to suppress scientific thought because of this, and not because they've been suppressing it over the last millennium.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;36828906]Wrong. Many prominent people who advanced scientific knowledge were themselves clergymen, and often many had support from the church. The pope even enjoyed reading the latest progress that Roger Bacon did. (His work into optics, gunpowder and the such was quite groundbreaking) Yeah, history would be different if Jesus actually existed.[/QUOTE] Bacon's accomplishments pale in comparison to the achievements of medieval Islam, which was pretty ahead of its time with (relatively) advanced irrigation systems, chemistry, optics, algebra, basic medical science, etc. Granted, we're talking about the exploits of one man vs. that of an entire region, but seeing as he was around just after the region had reached the height of its power, I'm willing to bet he drew a lot on the previous works of Muslim scholars.
[QUOTE=ElectricSquid;36832760]Bacon's accomplishments pale in comparison to the achievements of medieval Islam, which was pretty ahead of its time with (relatively) advanced irrigation systems, chemistry, optics, algebra, basic medical science, etc. Granted, we're talking about the exploits of one man vs. that of an entire region, but seeing as he was around just after the region had reached the height of its power, I'm willing to bet he drew a lot on the previous works of Muslim scholars.[/QUOTE] What I am arguing against is the myth that "The Medieval Era was one of technological stagnation". Bacon is just one chap. Here's more: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Catholic_cleric%E2%80%93scientists[/url] And this isn't counting all the other people who never became clergymen.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36828389]those too. they're just sort of gathering dust, they have to go[/QUOTE] You are right. Who cares about historical artifacts? Hey, some big French bitch is taking up space in our harbor, you want it? It's just taking up space.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;36832302]The renaissance didn't speed up the rate of innovation at all. It was a conservative movement looking back to the days of the Romans, and starting the myth that the Medieval era was one of ignorance. The Renaissance invented the "Dark Ages" myth in order to justify its own existence. [/QUOTE] oh ok
How about you do it like its the 1400's, do nothing because you can't do shit.
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